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Putting retirement savings in equities pays off in long run

MovieStar

Alfrescian
Loyal
With the stock markets being so volatile in the past six months or so, people who have their retirement savings in equities must be going through an anxious period.

The most common piece of advice financial advisers have for individuals is to start saving when they are young, and to let the savings compound with time.

With interest rates being so low, putting one's money in fixed deposits is a very inefficient way of achieving the compounding effect. Consider this: It takes 72 years to double your savings from say, $100,000 to $200,000 at an interest rate of 1 per cent a year.



However, if you can find a way to grow your money at 10 per cent a year, your $100,000 would grow to $200,000 in less than eight years. In 24 years, your $100,000 would have grown to some $1 million. That's the magic of compounding.

One way of letting the money compound at a faster rate is via the stock market. However, this route entails significant volatility, as we have witnessed in the last six months and in various episodes in the past, for example, during the global financial crisis, the Sars epidemic and the Asian financial crisis, to name just three.



Now, let's take a look at how market volatility impacts one's retirement savings. Let's assume that the analysis is done using the Straits Times Index (STI), with dividends reinvested. No transaction costs are taken into consideration.

Let's say the retirement savings plan entails putting $10,000 each quarter into the STI for 20 years, with dividends reinvested.

That's $40,000 a year over 20 years. So the principal amounts to $800,000.

The good news is, over a 20-year period, every single person who has consistently put money into the stock market quarterly would have managed to have a pot which is bigger than the capital put in. Most people would end up with a retirement sum of $1.95 million - double the principal they put in.

Over a 20-year period, every single person who had consistently put money into the stock market quarterly would have managed to have a pot which is bigger than the capital put in. Most people ended up with a retirement sum of $1.95 million - double the principal they put in.
The not-so-good news is, depending on when one starts investing in the market and when one retires, the outcome at the end of 20 years can vary significantly. It can mean a difference as large as $1.6 million.

The lucky person, let's call her Jane, who started investing, say in the third quarter of 1987, would have had a pot of $2.7 million after her retirement as at the third quarter of 2007. That was the peak of the market just before the global financial crisis.

However, the person who joined the workforce just four years earlier and started investing in the first quarter of 1983, let's call her Mary, would end up with a retirement pot of just $1.1 million as at the first quarter of 2003. That was when the Singapore market was depressed from fears of the Sars epidemic.

SEQUENCE RISK IN RETIREMENT SAVINGS

This is called sequence risk. A saver may earn a different sequence of returns during the accumulation phase and that made a world of difference to the final outcome. In Mary's case, even though she got good returns early in her savings plan, she suffered bad returns near her retirement, when her account balance was higher. Jane, however, was lucky to have caught the bull run from 2004 till 2007.

Here is how the two retirement savings plans grew over time.

Mary would have got very miserable returns for her 20 years of diligent saving had she withdrawn all her money as soon as she retired.

However, if she left the bulk of the money in the market, and took out just 5 per cent, or $55,000, to fund her living expenses that year, and continued to take out just 5 per cent of the portfolio value every year since, her portfolio as of today would be worth much more.

Between 2003 and 2015, Mary would have taken out $1.5 million to spend, and as at Feb 29 this year, her portfolio would be worth $2.1 million. Mind you, this is valued based on rather depressed pricing for the STI currently.

As for Jane, she would have done better had she taken out her entire retirement pot at the peak of the market. But she had to have the courage to reinvest the entire pool back when the market corrected. Had she not, she would most likely be worse off in a few years' time.

Let's assume she had taken out her total pool of $2.7 million and put all the money in a fixed deposit that yielded her 1 per cent a year from 2007 until now, and that she took out 5 per cent from her pool every year. By now, she would have taken out $1.07 million and her pool would be $1.77 million.

The amount she is withdrawing reduces by the year as her pool shrinks since her interest is not compounding as fast as her 5 per cent withdrawal every year.

In comparison, had Jane left the money in the market as Mary had done, she would have taken out a slightly smaller sum of $969,000 between 2007 and now, and her portfolio is worth $1.69 million as at Feb 29 this year.

Again, market valuations as of now are pretty depressed and there is a very high chance that they will recover.

Notice also that Mary's retirement pot today is larger than Jane's. Starting early does pay.

To recap, for retirement savings, end-of-period market valuation makes a difference if one decides to withdraw the entire sum at that point. It is less decisive if it is a piecemeal redemption.

And for a plan of constant investment over a 20-year period, the starting market valuation doesn't really make a big difference either.

The takeaway is: Stretching out the investment period and making piecemeal redemptions take the stress out of managing one's retirement fund and one will not be held ransom emotionally and psychologically to market gyrations.

That is from the comfort of knowing that one will never run out of money with 5 per cent redemptions a year from a pool invested in a basket of productive and decently priced companies. So one can tune out the market noise.

•The writer is a partner in Aggregate Asset Management, manager of a no-management-fee Asia value fund, and author of Show Me The Money - Fighting Paralysis In A Market Meltdown.
 

winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Do a quick calculation on your own.

If you invest $10k annually on the S&P for 30 years, you will be a millionaire. The same amount in the CPF will only get you $450k, $300k is the principal. Only sinkees are stupid enough to accept the PAP justification for such low returns!
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Do a quick calculation on your own.

If you invest $10k annually on the S&P for 30 years, you will be a millionaire. The same amount in the CPF will only get you $450k, $300k is the principal. Only sinkees are stupid enough to accept the PAP justification for such low returns!

1.6 million to be precise.if everybody invest 20 percent plus employer 16 percent contribution into the snp 500 or a balanced portfolio of 50 percent stocks 30 percent reits and 20 percent bonds,everyone on this island would be a millionaire,provided they do not use cpf to pay for their hdb flats which is a ponzi scheme to suck ur cpf dry.

if every singaporean is a millionaire,there would be no need to import all these cheap foreign garbage to "create jobs for sinkies".......and build all these endless useless condos and shopping malls,with income coming in from overseas from our investments,we can build a sustainable city,solar panels on every hdb flat,floating solar panel farms on reserviors like they do in japan,with money coming in from our investments,we can grow our own local industries and home grown economy,we can develop high tech industries like electronics and household appliances like south korea.
 
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ginfreely

Alfrescian
Loyal
Do a quick calculation on your own.

If you invest $10k annually on the S&P for 30 years, you will be a millionaire. The same amount in the CPF will only get you $450k, $300k is the principal. Only sinkees are stupid enough to accept the PAP justification for such low returns!

Yes should increase CPF interest rate higher than 2.5%. At least 3.5% or higher. We are shortchanged or CPF underperforming other countries CPF equivalent.
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Yes should increase CPF interest rate higher than 2.5%. At least 3.5% or higher. We are shortchanged or CPF underperforming other countries CPF equivalent.

people have to invest their money,theres no such thing as increasing interest rate by magic,money dont fall from the skies,there is no reward without risk.
 

ginfreely

Alfrescian
Loyal
people have to invest their money,theres no such thing as increasing interest rate by magic,money dont fall from the skies,there is no reward without risk.

Yes CPF should let us invest ourselves if they cannot perform better than 2.5%. This is what Australia CPF equivalent allows their people to choose the own fund to invest or even set up one fund under their own name themselves. Alternatively, CPF should learn from Msia to invest their EPF in foreign properties to improve their returns. I read somewhere that's what they did.
 

winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Yes CPF should let us invest ourselves if they cannot perform better than 2.5%. This is what Australia CPF equivalent allows their people to choose the own fund to invest or even set up one fund under their own name themselves. Alternatively, CPF should learn from Msia to invest their EPF in foreign properties to improve their returns. I read somewhere that's what they did.

The CPF is used by the PAP to generate return for themselves. Temasick claims that it gets 7 pct return; it pays you 2.5 pct. So, it nets 4.5 pct. If Temasick is not that bloated, the returns would have been higher.

PAP cons us of our money.
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
agreed,with such shitty results after so many years and so many decades,2.5 bloody percent?would u want to keep any investment fund manager or hedge fund that performs so poorly?why the fuck would anyone trust PAP to manage their wealth?even a monkey throwing darts at a newspaper can achieve better returns than 2.5 percent annualised.sack them i say,i rather do passive investing and achieve the average market returns of 8 percent per year without doing any work at all,expense ratio less than 0.40 percent,ccb,PAP manage ur money for you and charges u a commision fee of 3.5 percent. any mutual fund or hedge fund on wallstreet that does that would have been sacked a long time ago!!!!but 70 percent still vote for them mofo jiak liao bees PAPees!!!
 
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eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
it pays off only if you know what you're doing, but you must avoid sinkie stocks. it's best to be a sinkie citizen when you deal in u.s. stocks and equities as you're not subjected to capital gains tax, both short term and long term. i had to pay uncle sam half of my capital gains this year on stock earnings.
 

winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
it pays off only if you know what you're doing, but you must avoid sinkie stocks. it's best to be a sinkie citizen when you deal in u.s. stocks and equities as you're not subjected to capital gains tax, both short term and long term. i had to pay uncle sam half of my capital gains this year on stock earnings.

You made money and you not happy? Why don't you put all your money in our CPF then?
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
it pays off only if you know what you're doing, but you must avoid sinkie stocks. it's best to be a sinkie citizen when you deal in u.s. stocks and equities as you're not subjected to capital gains tax, both short term and long term. i had to pay uncle sam half of my capital gains this year on stock earnings.

As someone who took advantage of the CPF investment scheme to invest in unit trusts, I can confirm that they are useless :(
My $$$ is still invested in these funds & they have never recovered from losses.

The fact is that the PAP decides which local companies Sporeans can invest their CPF. They all turned out to be a. bunch of lost making companies. The reason I haven't liquidated these investments is because there are no better options for my CPF.

CPF is nothing more than a hidden tax on Sporeans.
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
Do a quick calculation on your own.

If you invest $10k annually on the S&P for 30 years, you will be a millionaire. The same amount in the CPF will only get you $450k, $300k is the principal. Only sinkees are stupid enough to accept the PAP justification for such low returns!

That is ridiculous. S&P500 is risky while cpf is nearly risk free! Can index investors get guaranteed returns like the cpf? Cpf can never default on its obligations as all its liabilities are in sing dollars. Worse case ask Tharman and MAS they can make magic happen. :smile:
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
As someone who took advantage of the CPF investment scheme to invest in unit trusts, I can confirm that they are useless :(
My $$$ is still invested in these funds & they have never recovered from losses.

The fact is that the PAP decides which local companies Sporeans can invest their CPF. They all turned out to be a. bunch of lost making companies. The reason I haven't liquidated these investments is because there are no better options for my CPF.

CPF is nothing more than a hidden tax on Sporeans.

What you say simply reinforces the perception that it is better to leave everything in cpf than try to act smart yourself! :smile:

Proud to say that my personal portfolio of approved investments have always been in the black. I was lucky but it does show that investments should never be regarded as a more lucrative form of savings. That sort of thinking propagated by professional money managers will only cause you to lose more money by acting in inopportune times.
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
That is ridiculous. S&P500 is risky while cpf is nearly risk free! Can index investors get guaranteed returns like the cpf? Cpf can never default on its obligations as all its liabilities are in sing dollars. Worse case ask Tharman and MAS they can make magic happen. :smile:

nothing is ever risk free,even cpf suffers from inflation risk and interest rate risks and currency risks....

inflation risks already guarantees that all cpf returns are negative real returns.over time inflation far outpaces with cpf interest returns thats why they have to keep raising the minimum sum like nobody's business.

cpf suffers from currency risks and institutional risks,they believe in the delusion that both singapore economy or the singapore currency can remain strong forever when it is merely kept artificially strong and inflated thru massive use of resources and effort.should one day singapore run into a series of economic recession and our currency plunges,cpf will turn into confetti in no time.

however investment in the snp 500 or even the sti guarantees protection against all that,the superior long term returns(assuming u are going to keep my money locked up for 20 to 30 years) guarantees that ur assets are well protected from the risk of inflation,investing in the snp 500 or sti also mean u are investing in physical companies and physical assets whose value rises over time in lieu of inflation and currency devaluation.while the value of cpf is arbitrarily determined by the fiat currency underlying it.....if one day singapore runs into economic crisis and is unable to prop up its currency any longer,ur cpf will be worthless while sti companies will still maintain their value thru assets which has intrinsic value and profits which can be
 
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yahoo55

Alfrescian
Loyal
If based on passive income for retirement, me and my wife will probably need $9K per month of passive income which we are trying to achieve in our investments. The CPF returns are so miserly pathetic, moreover PAP locks up your hard-earned money in CPF with many restrictions and they also change the CPF rules so frequently to make it worse for Sinkies.

It seems like CPF exists to benefit PAP much more than Sinkies, as CPF allows PAP not to spend any money on medical for Sinkies. The CPF rules were changed last year by PAP allowing them to confiscate money from Sinkies CPF OA if their medisave is insufficient to pay PAP hospital bills. As the Sinkie saying goes, it's better to die than get sick in hospital, Sinkieland is one of those countries where citizens could potentially be bankrupted by public hospital bills.
 

MovieStar

Alfrescian
Loyal
If based on passive income for retirement, me and my wife will probably need $9K per month of passive income which we are trying to achieve in our investments. The CPF returns are so miserly pathetic, moreover PAP locks up your hard-earned money in CPF with many restrictions and they also change the CPF rules so frequently to make it worse for Sinkies.

It seems like CPF exists to benefit PAP much more than Sinkies, as CPF allows PAP not to spend any money on medical for Sinkies. The CPF rules were changed last year by PAP allowing them to confiscate money from Sinkies CPF OA if their medisave is insufficient to pay PAP hospital bills. As the Sinkie saying goes, it's better to die than get sick in hospital, Sinkieland is one of those countries where citizens could potentially be bankrupted by public hospital bills.

9k per month is a lot money, how do spend 9k per month?

i spend 1k per month also quite a lot of money
 

yahoo55

Alfrescian
Loyal
9k per month is a lot money, how do spend 9k per month?

i spend 1k per month also quite a lot of money

I give $2K a month to my parents, and my wife also gives money to her parents. Raising kids is expensive in Sinkieland, and we have two school going kids. I have a maid to help take care of my parents and kids, maids are not cheap. I also need a car for my family needs like ferrying our parents and kids, cars in Sinkieland are by far the world's most expensive. Property taxes, car insurance and road tax is expensive. Medical insurance for the family is very expensive. Electricity and water bills are not cheap, food and entertainment are not cheap. And any money remaining after deducting all the expenses, it goes to my savings.
 

Ralders

Alfrescian
Loyal
I give $2K a month to my parents, and my wife also gives money to her parents. Raising kids is expensive in Sinkieland, and we have two school going kids. I have a maid to help take care of my parents and kids, maids are not cheap. I also need a car for my family needs like ferrying our parents and kids, cars in Sinkieland are by far the world's most expensive. Property taxes, car insurance and road tax is expensive. Medical insurance for the family is very expensive. Electricity and water bills are not cheap, food and entertainment are not cheap. And any money remaining after deducting all the expenses, it goes to my savings.

U got go chicken house like richoil the PERVERT.
 

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Do a quick calculation on your own.

If you invest $10k annually on the S&P for 30 years, you will be a millionaire. The same amount in the CPF will only get you $450k, $300k is the principal. Only sinkees are stupid enough to accept the PAP justification for such low returns!

So have you been investing $10k annually in the S&P?
 
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