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Opposition and leadership after GE

GMS knows the TS, so if you don't, you can ask him. ;)
I don't know him personally, but I know who he is. :o

I don't think his intention is to demonise other opposition parties. His thread appears to be what happens to opposition parties who didn't get any seats, it's like discussing what clubs which didn't win the championship would do or what would happen to them.

I know TS personally, a diehard WP supporter who had left WP. Despise RP and KJ to the max but yet volunteered to be assentor to the RP AMK team, left WP but volunteered to be polling and counting agent for WP MK GRC. Only he could answer why but he is not telling.

Every parties have got their own set of problems and that naturally do not exclude the incumbent and WP. What is the purpose of starting this thread if it is not intended for stone throwing?
 
I know TS personally, a diehard WP supporter who had left WP. Despise RP and KJ to the max but yet volunteered to be assentor to the RP AMK team, left WP but volunteered to be polling and counting agent for WP MK GRC. Only he could answer why but he is not telling.

Every parties have got their own set of problems and that naturally do not exclude the incumbent and WP. What is the purpose of starting this thread if it is not intended for stone throwing?

I don't see what is wrong with his opening thread. Neither did he give his background like you have so readily done so. I dun think its for stone throwing but just political analysis. Or perhaps constructive criticism where RP is concerned.

As an opposition supporter, I feel sometimes (e.g. RP) the opposition parties antics are their own worst enemy. If we really want to provide an alternative voice to the PAP, opposition politics have to develop into a state where it is viable and respectable. Otherwise, you will always just attract the fringe elements.
 
Dear IR123,

You always give me interesting thoughts from the things you wrote.

Actually, from my frank assessment, yes, you are right. I was telling the reporters who follow me around that there is an undercurrent of ANGER going around Singapore. Of course, they didn't dare to report on that. :)

I was also surprised that WP's Aljunied Team didn't cross 55%. I was expecting a near 60% win for WP's Aljunied Team. It might have something to do with PM Lee's apology.

It is a natural deduction. If WP's Aljunied Team didn't cross 55%, all other GRC teams will not win.

There is a possibility of a repeat of 1991 to 1997 episode. i.e. After losing 4 seats, PAP buck up and introduce a whole series of programs to win back their lost grounds. However, the demographic will be changing rapidly as well. Whether PAP could meet the rapid change of demographics as well as the rising expectation or not, is left to been seen.

So far, we have seen only cosmetic changes. Even MND under KBW is only making cosmetic changes; a short cut method by introducing schemes which are easily "implemented" or just take a call or so, populist in nature and gaining wider voters' approval.

But the CORE problems of HDB woes are not addressed, i.e. the fundamental pricing mechanism for new HDB flats are kept untouched. It is also left to be seen how he could increase building of new HDB flats as well as rental flats in such a huge volume within a short span of time. We may end up with the same situation like the Yishun Hospital... talk for 10 years before it has been finally built. If KBW could only build one hospital in 10 years, I really wonder how long he will take to build tens of thousands of HDB flats and rental flats.

It will always be a very painful thing to be a visionary of any kind. Most likely you will become the loner because very few people could see the things you can see. You will end up with people doubting you and your views, even your credibility as a whole. Yes, you are right. The ground is ripe for ALL opposition in 2011 but many of us have let it slipped up on us.

When I was telling people taking 35% to 40% in MP shouldn't be a problem, people give me that wild look. When I told people if we play our cards right, we may end up with more than 10 opposition MPs in parliament, they just laughed it away. Most of them are still dreaming of getting some NCMP seats instead... counting their NCMP seats. I told them, there will be little or even no NCMP seats at all (because at least Aljunied GRC will fall).

While people are happy and celebrating away that 6 seats WP won, I could only sigh in dismay. Yes, the whole movement could have done better but we are just satisfied with that minor victory.

What will happen in 2016? Just cross our fingers WP could keep Aljunied and the party will not fall apart. My feel is that we will not have such a "SWEET GROUND" like 2011 any more but it does not mean that it is impossible for us to make more gains.

The impact and implications of GE2011 is significant in every sense. The breach of PAP's GRC fortress has sent hope to many people, including some very high calibre people who are sitting on the fence. They will be convinced to step into the opposition movement. It would mean that we may have more good people joining the movement. There may even be more Nicole Seah coming along the way. (I already have some potential recruits!)

As for me, I am of course very disappointed that NSP wasn't able to capitalize fully the ground swell. There are a lot of reasons for this disappointment but ultimately, I will have to bear full responsibilities for it.

In opposition movement, many people think they know better. They think they can be king makers, puppet masters whatever. But look, even WP made one strategic mistake of not contesting MP but instead, fighting NSP for Moulmein Kallang. Things might be very different if WP contested MP instead of MK. The amount of clout and energy generated in proximity will perhaps create another fall in East Coast.

In terms of demographic and voters' profiling, MK is never a good choice. The only advantage it has is that it has only 4 seats. The only person in WP who has that political sensitivity and acumen now is none other than YSL. Yes, ironically, it is YSL, the one who declared he voted PAP back in 2006. He is the only one who gets excited when NSP finally declared that it is contesting MP.

I do not know what you mean by "Better still find your own party." But personally, I will always leave my options open. As many people have found out, I am nobody's puppet, so to speak.

Goh Meng Seng

The climate in 2011 is very different from 2006.

In 2011, people are fed up with Lee Hsien Loong's policies and this is shown very convincingly in the results. IF you have fielded a good team in Tampines, you would have won hands down. Not because of your good team but because the ground is so ripe that your good team will provide the tipping point.

IF Nicole Seah is not in your MP GRC team, I will hazard a guess that GCT will continue in his PAP ways.

IF you fielded a good team including Nicole Seah in AMK GRC, PM LHL may no longer be in office.

The ground in 2011 is that ripe for ALL oppositions. Unlike the 2006 vintage.


Going forward, the 2016? election may see PM LHL regaining the lost ground as he connect back to the lost electorate. His humility in wanting to learn from the 2011 feedback may make him the Prime Minister that Singapore needs. "May" only because a lot depends on his being able to deliver. If he delivers the ground will be very different for you.

Besides Mr Heng Swee Keat is a wonderful MP and Minister, unlike that Mah Bow Tan. Competing in Tampines again will be very different. MP GRC will be helmed by some other PAP representative. Let's hope it is Charles Chong.


Finally some said that you did not field Nicole in Tampines because of the internal dynamics in NSP. If so, you should tell your colleagues to off themselves and not waste your chances again. Better still find your own party.

You need a new treasurer.
 
The climate in 2011 is very different from 2006.

In 2011, people are fed up with Lee Hsien Loong's policies and this is shown very convincingly in the results.

Whenever I am asked to predict score for each constituency, I would always quantify that it is based on 2006 result. Yes, 2011 had poor sentiments but how much it would swing, no one knows.

I had not expected WP to win a GRC and had expressed that it would come very close and still lost. PAP's drop this time was 6.5% (from 66.6% to 60.1%) and if the sentiments in 2011 was the same in 2006, WP in Aljunied would have 48.2%. But I guess LTK and others sensed the sentiments and decided that LTK would walk out.
 
I know TS personally, a diehard WP supporter who had left WP. Despise RP and KJ to the max but yet volunteered to be assentor to the RP AMK team, left WP but volunteered to be polling and counting agent for WP MK GRC. Only he could answer why but he is not telling.

Every parties have got their own set of problems and that naturally do not exclude the incumbent and WP. What is the purpose of starting this thread if it is not intended for stone throwing?

I didn't mention Socialist Front either. You sore about that?

"Only he could answer why but he is not telling." - > Why are you interested to find out since you are not interested in the answer?
 
'GMS : While people are happy and celebrating away that 6 seats WP won, I could only sigh in dismay. Yes, the whole movement could have done better but we are just satisfied with that minor victory. '

talk so much. if only nsp can win 1 grc n 1 smc like wp. then we will have more than 10 oppo in parliament. u wasted my vote on ur party. tiu.
 
You are right. I was wondering why people were chasing their tails until I re-read my statement. I meant to say "With the GE over and nearly only one OPPOSITION party is represented in Parliament..." I left out the word "opposition". Since I have pre-mentioned that one opposition, I went on to the rest.

Of course, you and everyone else would have to accept that WP would be included in the disussion and possibly criticised, since they are also an opposition party.
The possibility that they might have internal strife, that they may make little impact in parliament, etc are valid points of debate as well.

What I was trying to point out is that it is perfectly logical to start a thread for rational discussion on the opposition parties which didn't win any seats.
At the end of the day, elections is about winning.
 
The one thing we should not forget is that GMS and those like him did participate in the elections. All of them made the effort and that we cannot take away from them as they were standing up for their Singapore. To belittle his efforts and demand he perform to our standards and to win and not lose is way too much. He is brave and indeed lost, but at least he tried. I am not saying he was right but I cannot support anybody who wants him to explain things and admit he was wrong. He loses and we lose too but we should encourage and not discourage those who fight for us. Only the PAP supporters are happy that he lost. Sorry for stepping on anybody's toes but GMS deserved more than having brickbats thrown at him.

Totally agree with your post.
I don't always agree with what he says or does, but appreciate what he is trying to do as an opposition politician.
 
I know TS personally, a diehard WP supporter who had left WP. Despise RP and KJ to the max but yet volunteered to be assentor to the RP AMK team, left WP but volunteered to be polling and counting agent for WP MK GRC. Only he could answer why but he is not telling.

Every parties have got their own set of problems and that naturally do not exclude the incumbent and WP. What is the purpose of starting this thread if it is not intended for stone throwing?

Your first para reflects well on the TS, in my opinion.
Doesn't like them but still helps, left the party but still helps.
Doing his best to help the opposition as a concerned Singaporean? My suggested answer, not his.

Why does anyone start threads? To discuss something of interest and to get views. It's considered demonising or stone throwing only if it's unfair or untrue. Sorry, I don't see it here. It's perfectly logical to discuss the parties which didn't win any seats. Of course, like I replied to him, he and everyone have to accept that the WP will be mentioned and possibly criticised as well.
 
The thread title reads "Opposition and Leadership after GE". It did not state "Opposition without MPs and its leadership after GE".

Thus, I still do not understand why WP was deliberately left out by the TS when it is apparent that WP suffered the first casualty right after GE. i.e. Departure of Eric Tan. With due respect, Eric Tan was part of WP leadership prior to his departure. Isn't that a "Change" in WP's leadership?

Thus, the TS intention is questionable indeed. It is pretty easy to establish that. Well, we are seeing further change in WP's leadership now as more people (mainly MPs) are co-opted into WP CEC. It is a very interesting development actually but it seems that the TS is only interested in taking pot shots at other opposition parties? Strange isn't it? ;)

Goh Meng Seng
 
Revolution

Have you thought of Revolution in the first place, Mr GMS. I've considered this some years ago. You can always ignore the old folks and 'the new citizens' here. It was probably Sun Yet-san's last option.
 
Goh Meng Seng; One must not forget that winning seats have to depend on popularity as well. i.e. If LTK or Sylvia Lim is not popular said:
without chen show mao, you think they can win...?
 
Totally agree with your post.

I would be very glad if the opposition politicians themselves do not throw brickbats at people in the first place. People were incensed because of this. One other example was KJ. A supporter full of praises for him and RP was told that he should "get off his ass and not sit on his butt to do something for RP so that RP could be better". Not unexpectedly, the supporter was so appalled that I am not sure he recovered.

The person in mentioned has been helped by many in his political tries. I don't recall that he has ever returned the favour. I however recall that on the contrary he shoots them falstifyingly simply because ideologies parted later. If that is how he repays, then who is to blame?
 
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Your first para reflects well on the TS, in my opinion.
Doesn't like them but still helps, left the party but still helps.
Doing his best to help the opposition as a concerned Singaporean? My suggested answer, not his.

Why does anyone start threads? To discuss something of interest and to get views. It's considered demonising or stone throwing only if it's unfair or untrue. Sorry, I don't see it here. It's perfectly logical to discuss the parties which didn't win any seats. Of course, like I replied to him, he and everyone have to accept that the WP will be mentioned and possibly criticised as well.

This is a public forum. Of cux, anyone can start a thread for a discussion on any nature. But this thread carries a personal agenda.

I give you an example. Can you accept someone to advise you on yr corporate strategy when his wife is a director of yr key competitor, XYZ company? He advised you against cutting price and increasing yr marketing expenditure which his wife is doing aggressively in XYZ, and to avoid going head-on with XYZ key market segment. He tried to convince you to heed his advice and lobby for support from yr board of directors. His track record included helping another small company to go into a sure lose money deal which he had personally experienced before. He also list helping his wife in one of the key XYZ market segment in his resume.

His offer is pro-bono, no string attached. Do you still want his advice?
 
I do not know what you mean by "Better still find your own party." But personally, I will always leave my options open. As many people have found out, I am nobody's puppet, so to speak.

Goh Meng Seng

Hi GMS,

Thank you for your lengthy reply.

You have done much and it is largely to your credit, i believe, that MBT was out of the running. As for KBW he has an easier portfolio than Health where he has to gain the support of the Clinical Directors for his policies as well as the national agenda of welcoming the world to our shoes (not a typo). In the end, the losers are the people who need medical care, as evidenced by his inability to control medical inflation and insufficient hospital beds. However it is far easier to turn around the effects of housing now that the PAP thinking has been primed by your Minister-specific strategy on housing. So, KBW should do well.

The secretary-general role in your party is second to that of the President. Thus you do not have the authority and though you are your own puppet, yet it will be the President who pull your strings in view of the authority he holds. IF, and IF that is what causes the lack lustre showing, then you need to assess if you can take over the party or form your own.

The WP will be the party to watch out for and winning a GRC is a big hurdle which the other parties will find it hard to cross in 2016?. Firstly because of the emergence of more professionals coming forth. Secondly because the PAP would have learnt from its mistakes. Thirdly the team of PM LHL flanked by Thurman and Teo Chee Hean is much better than the previous team in my opinion. Also that team will be functioning from a changed focus. Less foreign-talent oriented. Maybe less wealthy-oriented too.

From the WP side, the change in their CEC as well as gearing up Gerald Giam to offer his perspective on new media will help to spearhead their drive into the national newspapers as well as the internet. If backed by concrete evidence that they are indeed able to deliver in Aljunid and Hougang, they will not have a significant hurdle to cross in obtaining one or two more GRC provided there is no three-corner fight.

Anyway, I believe that Nicole Seah is worth poaching from the standpoint of other parties.

Also the PAP is wrong in believing that it is the new voters who swung the votes. At least not from my standpoint. Many of the new voters are for the PAP. Some for the opposition. The significant swing is from the middle-class voters who are beyond their 21-years of age, who see their workplace filled with Indians, Chinese, Westerners, Filipinos, etc from all over the world. The sheer workplace diversity makes them want to have a diversified Parliament too. Diversity is good.

The best to you and I hope that you will win a GRC though I have my doubts if the obstacles preventing a good showing in 2011 are not resolved. The responsibility for the failure lies in the shoulders of your President as he is the one in charge although the causes of the failure could lie on everyone in NSP for all I know. Be that as it may, I hope you will build up the new faces who expressed in interest with you.

Go and win a GRC.
 
What I was trying to point out is that it is perfectly logical to start a thread for rational discussion on the opposition parties which didn't win any seats.
At the end of the day, elections is about winning.

Election is not about winning. Do you honestly think people like Tan See Say, Ang Yong Guan, Benjamin Pwee, stood in this election thinking that they could win? If election is about winning, this election will not be a near all out contest.

Even people like KJ whose party did not do well in the poll should be given credit. Go read RP manifesto. Alot of policy changes, which are now in the process of implementating, were initiated.

Of cux, i would agree that the ultimate aim of a political party is to win seat in parliament. Otherwise, what is the point of crafting party manifesto.

But i also think winning the parliament seat is not the only platform to contribute to the betterment of the society. Prior to GE 2011, Gilbert Goh was already doing well with his transitioning.org to provide support for the umemployed. However his participation in GE did helped him to raise his profile, making him a more effective activist with his "Employ Singaporean First" campaign.
 
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Election is not about winning. Do you honestly think people like Tan See Say, Ang Yong Guan, Benjamin Pwee, stood in this election thinking that they could win?

In honesty, I think those people want to win. They think the ground is ripe and they want to win. Why they want to win is another matter. Of that, I reserve my thoughts.

Election is about winning. Why go into politics unless you want to be the next Prime Minister. Of course, today there are alternatives to being the next Prime Minister - the $1m or $15m jackpot are worthwhile alternatives. But traditionally that is the intention of any politician worth his/her salt. People enter into politics because they want to exert influence. The money is a reward of that power. The only way to exert influence is to be the top dog. Or if to use a different analogy, to be the lion in the midst of hyenas.

Anyway sorry to come into your conversation with jw5.
 
In honesty, I think those people want to win. They think the ground is ripe and they want to win. Why they want to win is another matter. Of that, I reserve my thoughts.

Anyone who comes in wants to win. They see it from their own angles that they will win. Anyone who thinks these people came in not to win but for (what?) is a joke. And that is why the power struggle that happens in parties.
 
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