No Basis for S'pore Opposition Parties to Mimic M'sian Opposition Coalition

[scroobal]

We are heading in the right direction where local politics is concerned. Not a false dawn as in 1991. I do agree with Kingrant on the need to have robust debates in parliament. Robust debates forces all MPs including those in the ruling party to reassess their own position when it comes to policies and legislation that are before them. Opposition MPs must also learn not to start from a position of compromise. Inquisitorial approach helps to force out the original premise and the intent behind a policy or a piece of legislation. This is a must as only then we can help deliver policies that work for all rather than help a few.

What is interesting for Singapore is that political debates are no longer found in Parliament alone. The public has now taken it outside as in the 6.9M white paper and that debate is more ferocious outside than inside. Very much helped by the online suite of blogs, forums and various other channels. My sense is that the outside debates will grow more intense and the Govt will have to address it rather than ignore them as in the past.

 

[wwabbit]

While i agree with yr first part about weak and bad Opposition parties, I do not agree with this part. What for heaven's sake is Singapore's "unique brand of democracy"? The GRC system, the NMP and NCMP system? The Electoral Dept in the PMO? MPs in Town Councils? The incestuous rel'ship between PA and PAP, NTUC and the PAP govt etc?

You are oversimplifying the brand of democracy as practised in the USA. For heaven's sake, read Alexis Tocqueville's Democracy in America.

The Americans started out on the fundamental principle that the Executive power is not unfettered or supreme; the Legislature and the Judiciary and the executive office are like an equilateral triangle of powers, to keep each other's powers balanced. All this has stood them well over nearly 250 years. They are the greatest economy, the supreme military power, and the most advanced country.

Things are not that rosy in the USA either. That is a country where George W Bush can win the US presidential election despite having a lower total popular vote count than Al Gore. A country where the Republicans have the House of Representatives majority despite having 47.7% of the total vote count to the Democrats 49.0%. Where the political system favors the side that can get more donations from corporations leading to politicians working more towards benefiting corporations than benefiting the people.

Remember: Correlation does not imply causation. Just because the US has the "greatest economy, supreme military power, and the most advanced country" doesn't meant that it is their political system that caused all that.

 

[Cosmos10]

NSP maybe but SDP dont stand a chance.

Aiyo, brother cleareyes, please tell me what kind of crystal ball do you have to make such a prediction huh?

What good does a person gain by being such a wet blanket?

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Aiyo, brother cleareyes, please tell me what kind of crystal ball do you have to make such a prediction huh?

What good does a person gain by being such a wet blanket?

It is not a wet blanket if it is based on factual observation and reasonable extrapolation into the future within the boundary of the sample observation.

 

[jw5]

It is not a wet blanket if it is based on factual observation and reasonable extrapolation into the future within the boundary of the sample observation.

Wasn't it you who claimed that SDP are the party to watch out for in 2016?

http://singsupplies.com/showthread.php?108116-SDP-a-party-to-watch-for-2016

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Indeed I was.

Wasn't it you who claimed that SDP are the party to watch out for in 2016?

http://singsupplies.com/showthread.php?108116-SDP-a-party-to-watch-for-2016

 

[The_Hypocrite]

I do not think Francis Seow would have do a JBJ or CSJ, he is damn smart and will do a Tan Soo Khoon, argue with facts and put PAP to shame. Old man know that ah seow is a formidable orator and a capable person,,not a clown and sure will put old man to shame,,that y old man cannot allow him to take up the NCMP,...also old man damn dulan him for standing up against old man.

Old man is a very vengeful person. No compassion and no heart...but he has his supporters, as the saying goes..even the Devil has his supporters,,so does LKY

I pretty much agree with this. A lot of younger Sporns do not know or cannot remember that Francis Seow was made an NCMP following the 1988 GE but did not get a chance to take his seat.

 

[cleareyes]

Aiyo, brother cleareyes, please tell me what kind of crystal ball do you have to make such a prediction huh?

What good does a person gain by being such a wet blanket?

i m not being a wet blanket over the matter. Look at the vote count of GE2011 and you could see where things are heading. The fiasco of BE2013 had further dampen SDP's rep and chances.

Before BE2013, even I still think that despite the vote count of GE2011, with fresh strong blood such as VW, prehaps SDP could still put up a fight. Now I dont see much of a fight but just a sideshow from SDP, not even a nibble at PAP heels to irritate them, but more of an encouragement.

Just think, if Chee is really so dangerous to PAP, why did he get a "discount" to get out of his bankrupcy so easily? Old man would have really come down hard on him just like how he did on tang, Soew and JBJ but instead, they let him loose.

so now, put yourself in the shoes of PAP MPs, who would you want to face? who would give you more uncertaintly? Chee? or some unknown WP member?

 

[The_Hypocrite]

U r right,,,Chee is there to sow discord amoungst the oppos. Look at what Chee nearly did during the last BE? 1st say want to contest, than after that say unity candidate,,he is talking through his ass and he represents the sort of oppo candidate that Singaporeans do no want. Chee should resign from SDP as Secretary General and be just an ordinary member. Let him write books and be an interest group. Let the running of the show be done by others. Chee is really a tarnish item.

 

[metalmickey]

I agree with most of what Derek de Cunha said but there is not that much a difference between the first tier and the third tier. SDP and NSP are basically where WP was 5/10 years ago. Before 2011, they had just one Low Thia Khiang in parliament. Sylvia Lim was just on the sidelines, no Png Eng Huat, no Chen Show Mao, no Pritam Singh, no Yee Jenn Jong, and Gerald Giam was just "some blogger dude".

Other than those aforementioned names, I'm pretty sure that between the likes of Chee Soon Juan, Ang Yong Guan, Vincent Wijeysingha, Tan Jee Say, Nicole Seah, Jeanette Chong Aruldoss, Hazel Poa, Benjamin Pwee, Vincent Wijeysingha or Paul Thambyah, at least one or two will get into parliament next time around. It's just a matter of under whose banner. Then there will be new faces who are planning their entry into parliament but not showing up until the last minute. Who knows where they'll come from? Then maybe SDP or NSP might look at being a second rate opposition instead of a third rate. And I don't agree that people are that discriminating of which opposition party to vote for: only 1-2% voted for SDA or RP because they knew which opposition party to vote for that would fuck the PAP the hardest.

I don't want to take anything away from the WP leadership who have done a great job. All opposition parties move forward, but the extent to which WP has been successful is not guaranteed. There is a lot to be admired about Low Thia Khiang's leadership.

SDP shot itself in the foot during BE 2013, until then it looked like it was moving forward. But it did a great damage limitation job by not participating in BE 2013, so things could always change for the better, although they are very hard to predict. Even those people who talk about the great Apple-Samsung war in mobile devices - remember not so long ago it used to be a Blackberry-Nokia war? Or remember when it was a Motorola-Sony Eriksson war? Things change so quickly that even when you know that it is PAP vs WP today it wouldn't necessarily matter much in five years' time.

 

[aurvandil]

He should have qualified the article by saying that this was valid up to GE 2016. Because GE 2016 is going to be such a huge turning point, it is impossible for anyone to see what will happen after.

GE 2016 will be the last stand for both NSP and SDP. If they make it into Parliament, then we are looking at a firm coalition future. Otherwise we are looking at a PAP-WP political landscape.

In terms of political development, Singapore will move along and restructure much more quickly if NSP and SDP get in. If they fail, we will be dictated by the somewhat leisurely pace WP has chosen to develop.

It is not a wet blanket if it is based on factual observation and reasonable extrapolation into the future within the boundary of the sample observation.

 

[SgParent]

................

As I've been sharing with anyone who bothers enough............ it is not too late for ONLINE parties such as SDP, NSP, etc, etc.

Just look at Aljunied GRC and PE SMC. The winning formula included the tried and trusted groundwork, door-to-door knocking. What is so difficult to comprehend......

Unless SDP, NSP, etc, etc, think they are too atas to dirty their shoes, say Fatty Desmond?

Or they are just plain lazy, thinking nothing but to parachute themselves into an area at the last moment like, I dunno, KJ?

 

[aurvandil]

Beyond groundwork, the key is to put together credible teams that can win elections. I am betting that NSP and SDP will get in because they have more than enough talent to put together an A-Team each that can beat a PAP Minister led GRC.

As I've been sharing with anyone who bothers enough............ it is not too late for ONLINE parties such as SDP, NSP, etc, etc.

Just look at Aljunied GRC and PE SMC. The winning formula included the tried and trusted groundwork, door-to-door knocking. What is so difficult to comprehend......

Unless SDP, NSP, etc, etc, think they are too atas to dirty their shoes, say Fatty Desmond?

Or they are just plain lazy, thinking nothing but to parachute themselves into an area at the last moment like, I dunno, KJ?

 

[yellowarse]

Just look at Aljunied GRC and PE SMC. The winning formula included the tried and trusted groundwork, door-to-door knocking. What is so difficult to comprehend......

Agree that groundwork is of paramount importance in getting the heartlanders' vote in Singapore.

Most Singaporeans above 35 (many conservative PAP supporters and swing voters are in this demographic) are not very net-savvy, and if they use the computer at all, it's mainly for e-mailing, the occasional surfing and some word-processing. They don't do social media, don't blog or participate in online forums, and still rely heavily on print media (aka prostitute press) for their news.

Also, people here tend to trust politicians they have seen in person, shaken hands with, spoken to face-to-face and come to like. Policies and ideology matter less to them than being able to trust the person they're voting for.

 

[metalmickey]

I'm with what Aurvandil said.

Let's see what happens in GE 2016. You get somebody in parliament, then you'll be able to attract more people to go door to door knocking. It's always a chicken and egg thing. It's not just "what's so difficult to comprehend". It's not "all they have to do is to get an army of people to go around door to door knocking". These people do not simply drop out of the sky. It's not the easiest thing in the world.

And it's not as though NSP hasn't be going around door to door knocking.

Conversely, if they don't get in, then I suppose they'll drop out of the landscape and implode the way we can now reasonably assume that SDA and RP are gone fuck.

 

[Troll]

I am sure you do not agree that this was a good political development, do you?

In a true democracy, adversaries should be given freedom to a contests of ideas to win the battle for the hearts and minds of the electorate. voters should be allowed to listen to both or all sides before making the informed decision. Only through this Darwinian system of evolution by natural selection can we benefit from a more robust model of democracy and governance. It is quite likely the PAP would have emerged anyway but at least everybody can see they succeeded because they deserved to. It might be slower but our institutions would be much more stronger as a result of the battles for survival. As it is, our democracy DNA does not have strong genes for future.

The brand of democracy we have in Singapore, its a counterfeit form of democracy.

In my ignorant opinion, a true democracy is one where the parliamentary representation closely reflects the amount of support votes for the respective party. It is clear here that the support for PAP drops below 60%, they still hold 90% of the votes. This becomes so clear in the toilet paper debacle where despite the voices of concerns from around, and even objections from pro-PAP camp, the toilet paper still get approved.

This is not democracy, this is a sham!

 

[Troll]

I agree with most of what Derek de Cunha said but there is not that much a difference between the first tier and the third tier. SDP and NSP are basically where WP was 5/10 years ago. Before 2011, they had just one Low Thia Khiang in parliament. Sylvia Lim was just on the sidelines, no Png Eng Huat, no Chen Show Mao, no Pritam Singh, no Yee Jenn Jong, and Gerald Giam was just "some blogger dude".

I think we are very fortunate that WP has made tonnes of progress, especially the past two years.

A fortress can never be breached, until the first crack is made. And WP has broken through with a GRC win, reclaiming Hougang which was almost a close fight, and wining PE convincingly in the BE. Because WP won, they have give a glimpse to many conservation Singaporeans who had been brain washed by the MSM and PAP, that Opposition candidates are a bunch of crackpots and lunatics.

And because of the breach by WP, it potentially open the doors to other opposition candidates to stand up and fight for a seat in parliament. Provided of course they do not come across as some escapees from IMH.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Remember: Correlation does not imply causation. Just because the US has the "greatest economy, supreme military power, and the most advanced country" doesn't meant that it is their political system that caused all that.

Actually, having reviewed it, I do think that American democracy does play a role in why it is the supreme superpower, besides of course the obvious inputs of geography and history which i elaborated on earlier. It is not so much that democracy itself leads to power simply by virtue of being morally superior to other systems, but that democracy creates the kind of institutions needed to produce leaders capable to taking on the world. Roosevelt, Reagan, could not have played their unique role in shaping the American superpower had they not been molded by the deeply institutionalized culture of America, which at its root, rests on democracy. Their methods may have been unscrupulous at times but that was necessary to make it to superpower status.

The usage of deep power itself becomes ineffectual after some time if not accompanied or challenged by the tempering force of democratic idealism.

 

[tanwahp]

Most Singaporeans above 35 (many conservative PAP supporters and swing voters are in this demographic) are not very net-savvy, and if they use the computer at all, it's mainly for e-mailing, the occasional surfing and some word-processing. They don't do social media, don't blog or participate in online forums, and still rely heavily on print media (aka prostitute press) for their news.

There's a difference between a person who votes out of citizenry duty or because he has to and his life is affected +vely or -vely by government (PAP) policies, versus a person who takes a keen interest in politics, policies, political history and parties. Many in the 2nd group are actually well off and this gives them time to dabble in politics, but it also ironically means they are far from being victims of policies they are fighting against.

Some opposition parties have made the mistake of not differentiating between the two and think that as long as you have surfed the net at least once in your lifetime, you are a guaranteed supporter of their messages.

Also, people here tend to trust politicians they have seen in person, shaken hands with, spoken to face-to-face and come to like. Policies and ideology matter less to them than being able to trust the person they're voting for.

Although policies and ideology matter to me, so is the trustworthiness. It doesn't take a kid to understand that people can don't mean what they say. In that sense, politicians who say unpopular things may be more trustworthy. It is a good test of mettle to see how parties react to critical situations, rather than just look at their manifestoes.

 

[SgParent]

Beyond groundwork, the key is to put together credible teams that can win elections. I am betting that NSP and SDP will get in because they have more than enough talent to put together an A-Team each that can beat a PAP Minister led GRC.

I dun dispute candidate quality matters. But I'm saying groundwork should not be discounted easily.

Just look at PE SMC BE. Girl-next-door LLL beats a rear-admirer doctor. How to explain the quality factor?

Then there was Aljunied GRC. The White Scums have a Foreign Ministar, another Ministar of something and a potential Ministar. How could any Oppo A-Team compare to that?