National Family Council 'Funeral' ad a ripoff?

[Defennder]

If you read the director's blog, she did reveal that her husband snores exactly like how the Indian actress renacted in the ad. So maybe it is drawn from her own experience? And really, the part about the beauty of imperfection is so cliched, I am surprised anyone thought it could have been ripped from Good Will Hunting (as though Good Will Hunting was the first time anyone thought of this idea).

Well yes but the rip-off isn't about the snoring. It's about the farting and ChaoPappyPoodle pointed out, many elements of similarities are present to make one rethink if this is a line of thought worth considering.

And no, I'm not claiming that Good Will Hunting was original (that it didn't rip-off that scene from an earlier flick). Indeed the director pointed out that the occurrence may have preceded both clips. My points are very simple:

1. The ad may have been plagiarised without acknowledgement of the source.
2. This accusation does not in any way undermine the message of the ad.

I really shouldn't have to point this out, but seriously of all the imperfections in a spouse's husband, farting in the sleep and waking himself up with a dog in the scene happens to be the one cited? Are we supposed to believe that there aren't any other imperfections the Indian woman could have cited? If so then she must have had quite a nearly perfect husband.

EDIT: I'd like to add that the woman may not have chosen to cite all her husband's imperfections otherwise this would be a very lengthy and boring ad indeed. But the one she chose bears strong resemblance to the scene from Good Will Hunting.

 

[SneeringTree]

Well yes but the rip-off isn't about the snoring. It's about the farting and ChaoPappyPoodle pointed out, many elements of similarities are present to make one rethink if this is a line of thought worth considering.

And no, I'm not claiming that Good Will Hunting was original (that it didn't rip-off that scene from an earlier flick). Indeed the director pointed out that the occurrence may have preceded both clips. My points are very simple:

1. The ad may have been plagiarised without acknowledgement of the source.
2. This accusation does not in any way undermine the message of the ad.

I really shouldn't have to point this out, but seriously of all the imperfections in a spouse's husband, farting in the sleep and waking himself up with a dog in the scene happens to be the one cited? Are we supposed to believe that there aren't any other imperfections the Indian woman could have cited? If so then she must have had quite a nearly perfect husband.

A fart that wakes up the dog and a fart that wakes up the farter is dissimilar enough. Snoring of a spouse is actually more commonly talked about than most people realize. I would think that the main imperfection was the snoring, which the wife acted with much gusto and realism.

So the elements are there:

1) Snoring in the ad but not in the movie (plus the fact that I would argue snoring is the key theme in the ad).
2) Both mention sleeping spousal farts (with a dog being used differently for different effects)
3) "Imperfections" but again used differently
4) Stories are recounted in completely different settings (one in a funeral and the other to just one other person) with completely different moods.
5) One mentions children to have meet someone as wonderful as the father, the other doesn't.

If you want the director to acknowledge the source should she say "Inspiration from a scene in Good Will Hunting?"; I think in her blog, she mentions similar scene being played in another movie too. So how, thank every movie that talks about snoring anbd/or farting and/or dogs and/or imperfections?

Plagiarism is not just about the base, stock ideas. It is about the overall product. To say that the ad is plagiarized is, to me, sanctimonious and bordering on ludricrous.

 

[Defennder]

A fart that wakes up the dog and a fart that wakes up the farter is dissimilar enough. Snoring of a spouse is actually more commonly talked about than most people realize. I would think that the main imperfection was the snoring, which the wife acted with much gusto and realism.

Perhaps you really have a problem with watching both clips. In both of them, the farter (for lack of a better word) wakes himself/herself up. You accuse me of pointing out similarities which aren't there (or are commonplace), now I level the opposite charge at you; you're pointing out dissimilarities that don't exist!

And you seem very selective as to which part of the ad you choose to focus on. Again I stress the snoring part is not plagiarised.

So the elements are there:

1) Snoring in the ad but not in the movie (plus the fact that I would argue snoring is the key theme in the ad).
2) Both mention sleeping spousal farts (with a dog being used differently for different effects)
3) "Imperfections" but again used differently
4) Stories are recounted in completely different settings (one in a funeral and the other to just one other person) with completely different moods.
5) One mentions children to have meet someone as wonderful as the father, the other doesn't.

For goodness sake did you really expect the director to copy every single element of the scene for her ad? How stupid must one be in order to do that? One might as well argue that the NDP 08 ad didn't plagiarise (if the creator hadn't admitted so) the Japanese ad since one involved making a giant red star and the other a giant black whale.

Again you're guilty of pointing out a dissimilarity that doesn't exist. In both cases, the person/people who hears the story laughs at it, then realises the narrator has a more sombre message to impart.

And who says "imperfections" are understood differently in both cases? In the movie scene the narrator says that the imperfections are considered "good stuff" in the context of his late wife. Seriously, you're splitting hairs in your frantic bid to defend the originality of this ad! Your charges are bordering on the inane. Did you even think through what you're writing?

Here's something to test if you're capable of spotting plagiarised works. Do you consider the film Eragon to be original? Why of course it is, after all it can't have ripped-off from Star Wars or Lord of the Rings since it involves dragons which the both movies did not. It also involves a giant egg which isn't present in both films. Come on, let's be reasonable.

If you want the director to acknowledge the source should she say "Inspiration from a scene in Good Will Hunting?"; I think in her blog, she mentions similar scene being played in another movie too. So how, thank every movie that talks about snoring anbd/or farting and/or dogs and/or imperfections?

It's not whether I want the director to do so or not. The entire thread is about whether she plagiarised it. Even the NDP 08ad creator admitted her ad was based on the Jap ad. Is Yasmin willing to do so?

Plagiarism is not just about the base, stock ideas. It is about the overall product. To say that the ad is plagiarized is, to me, sanctimonious and bordering on ludricrous.

Here's what ludicrous, the more this goes on, the more ridiculous and far-fetched your arguments appear to be.

 

[SneeringTree]

Here's what ludicrous, the more this goes on, the more ridiculous and far-fetched your arguments appear to be.

Why don't you write to the director and ask her then? All I am saying is that the elemtns in her ad can be explained perfectly. (As opposed to the National Day one).

All she has to say is that, "I got the inspiration from my husband"- which was what she implied in her own blog. Are you going to cry blood and say "NO! Can't be. The elements are too similar!"??

Does that sound reasonable to you? Or you are saying that it is not conceivable at all that the very same elements can be experienced by the director or could have come from stories that she's heard (in fact, she also mentions that one of her cousins sleep-farts. Then how?

Still want to insist that she plagiarized?

Just as you or the blogger might thing that it is plagiarzed many do not think so.

 

[Defennder]

Write to the director? Many have asked her in comments on her blog entry. She has neither denied or affirmed it. What makes you think that she would tell me, an anonymous individual? And even if she did, would you believe me if I told you she admitted her work wasn't original in an email?

The point is this; she has a vested interest in denying that the elements in the ad are too similar to occur by chance. So of course any claim of hers that she experienced it personally would automatically be suspect. Clearly this is something that's evident when the indivdual involved has an apparent conflict of interest.

Like I said, I'm open and welcome to alternative views, which is why I posted this thread in the first place.

 

[R4g3]

same as the national day ad, they are just "localizing" it.

 

[Defennder]

Anyway I just had a look at the comments on that blog entry here by the director:

yasmin said...
cik siti, when i was 15, i was very close to my cousin julie who was then 17. we liked to sleep in the livng room, talking til dawn. she would always fall asleep first, and although she was literally anally retentive in her waking hours, she often farted loudly in her sleep. i never told her about it, for fear it might embarrass her. when i saw that scene from goodwill hunting all those years ago, it warmed my heart because it reminded me of kak julie with whom i'd lost contact completely. the last i heard, she had been through a divorce and was very unhappy. i miss her dearly and hope she's okay, wherever she may be.

April 4, 2009 2:10 AM
yasmin said...
oh, and by the way, that IS almost exactly how my husband's snoring sounds like.

April 4, 2009 2:11 AM

You know, I never bothered to check those comments she made which you cited earlier, SneeringTree. Perhaps if I had done so then, it would have been evident that she acknowledged she was aware of that scene in Good Will Hunting before she made the ad. That sounds suspiciously like a admission to me. I leave this to the others to consider.

 

[SneeringTree]

Write to the director? Many have asked her in comments on her blog entry. She has neither denied or affirmed it. What makes you think that she would tell me, an anonymous individual? And even if she did, would you believe me if I told you she admitted her work wasn't original in an email?

The point is this; she has a vested interest in denying that the elements in the ad are too similar to occur by chance. So of course any claim of hers that she experienced it personally would automatically be suspect. Clearly this is something that's evident when the indivdual involved has an apparent conflict of interest.

Like I said, I'm open and welcome to alternative views, which is why I posted this thread in the first place.

Then it boils down to the eye of the beholder. I am of the opinion that to call the ad a plagiarized piece of work is an overstatement and completely unfair; and you seem to think otherwise. You also will not accept if the director claims that no plagiarism is involved on her part.

So how? Asking more opinions is not going to solve it. Even if more people agree that it is ripped does not mean that it is (and vice versa).

This discussion is then all academic and pointless really.

 

[Defennder]

Please read what I posted shortly before you posted the above.

 

[SneeringTree]

Anyway I just had a look at the comments on that blog entry here by the director:

You know, I never bothered to check those comments she made which you cited earlier, SneeringTree. Perhaps if I had done so then, it would have been evident that she acknowledged she was aware of that scene in Good Will Hunting before she made the ad. That sounds suspiciously like a admission to me. I leave this to the others to consider.

Hello, she followed on by saying that that scene reminded her of her relative/cousin who sleeps fart too. And the next comment was that her husband snores. Why don't you say her inspiration was from her cousin and her husband then? As a movie director, she must have seen hundreds more movies than the typical person. I am sure if you comb every movie she's watched, you can also find a somewhat similar funeral scene. What gives? You seem bent on calling the ad a plagiarized piece of work.

ps: there's no need to bold my nickname.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

If you read the director's blog, she did reveal that her husband snores exactly like how the Indian actress renacted in the ad. So maybe it is drawn from her own experience? And really, the part about the beauty of imperfection is so cliched, I am surprised anyone thought it could have been ripped from Good Will Hunting (as though Good Will Hunting was the first time anyone thought of this idea).

WHy is it so hard for you to accept that there are too many similarities between the two scenes? Snoring is common but farting and waking up oneself isn't. I would be very surprised if the director hasn't watched Good Will Hunting as it was a good movie and it seems to be a movie that someone like her would appreciate.

Using the word imperfection isn't cliche. There are indeed other words that could have been used. Indeed, for an ad targeted towards the masses, a simpler word would have been better. "Not perfect" or "Good and Bad" would have been better!

I really cannot fathom how you can deny the number of similarities to the extent where you don't even question if indeed plagiarism was committed. But wait, you actually went further. You actually insulted someone for questioning if plagiarism was committed.

 

[SneeringTree]

WHy is it so hard for you to accept that there are too many similarities between the two scenes? Snoring is common but farting and waking up oneself isn't. I would be very surprised if the director hasn't watched Good Will Hunting as it was a good movie and it seems to be a movie that someone like her would appreciate.

Using the word imperfection isn't cliche. There are indeed other words that could have been used. Indeed, for an ad targeted towards the masses, a simpler word would have been better. "Not perfect" or "Good and Bad" would have been better!

I really cannot fathom how you can deny the number of similarities to the extent where you don't even question if indeed plagiarism was committed. But wait, you actually went further. You actually insulted someone for questioning if plagiarism was committed.

Like I said before, I would be the first to call certain ads plagiarism (e.g. the National Day one- having copied from the Japanese ad). But this is really bordering on witch-hunt. If you follow the director's body of work, it is all about highlighting little idiosyncracies of people that others come to remember and cherish after their passing.

 

[Defennder]

Hello, she followed on by saying that that scene reminded her of her relative/cousin who sleeps fart too. And the next comment was that her husband snores. Why don't you say her inspiration was from her cousin and her husband then? As a movie director, she must have seen hundreds more movies than the typical person. I am sure if you comb every movie she's watched, you can also find a somewhat similar funeral scene. What gives? You seem bent on calling the ad a plagiarized piece of work.

ps: there's no need to bold my nickname.

You're right about this degenerating into a pointless discussion. I've articulated my arguments as above. And please don't drag in hundreds of other films; I will not be baited into another tiring debate into whether that same scene could be found in other films. She admitted she watched Good Will Hunting and was inspired by it. It doesn't matter if that Good Will Hunting itself plagiarised that scene from other works; I never claimed otherwise.

Like I said, I've said all that can be said. Others may judge if this ad is plagiarised from what they have seen above. I invite them to offer comments and criticism.

 

[Defennder]

Hi ChaoPappyPoodle,

thank you for your effort but I don't think SneeringTree would be convinced any time soon. It's not our effort to persuade him so. I've made my case and I'll let others (apart from SneeringTree) judge its merits.

 

[SneeringTree]

She admitted she watched Good Will Hunting and was inspired by it.

She only admitted to having watched the movie. She being "inspired" by it is your own normative judgement. What she did say was that that particular scene reminded her of one of her friends/relatives.

In any case, there is a wide gap between saying something is inspired by another thing and saying something plagiarized another thing.

Others can share their opinions but the "truth" is not going to be reached by us sharing opinions.

 

[Defennder]

She only admitted to having watched the movie. She being "inspired" by it is your own normative judgement. What she did say was that that particular scene reminded her of one of her friends/relatives.

yasmin said...
...when i saw that scene from goodwill hunting all those years ago, it warmed my heart because it reminded me of kak julie with whom i'd lost contact completely....
April 4, 2009 2:10 AM
yasmin said...
oh, and by the way, that IS almost exactly how my husband's snoring sounds like.

April 4, 2009 2:11 AM

She said it warmed her heart. So that isn't an inspiration of some kind? Presumably she had meant to say she suffered an attack of heartburn while watching Good Will Hunting.

In any case, there is a wide gap between saying something is inspired by another thing and saying something plagiarized another thing.

Right... So in future should you ever submit a work which was found to share glaring similarities with another already published, you can always claimed you were "inspired" by that work. Hair splitter.

Others can share their opinions but the "truth" is not going to be reached by us sharing opinions.

Presumably you know the Truth and we're just ignorant people hell-bent on accusing Yasmin of plagiarising a work without any evidence.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Like I said before, I would be the first to call certain ads plagiarism (e.g. the National Day one- having copied from the Japanese ad). But this is really bordering on witch-hunt. If you follow the director's body of work, it is all about highlighting little idiosyncracies of people that others come to remember and cherish after their passing.

Many directors try to highlight idiosyncracies of normal people. That's what makes movies interesting - the vicarious act can be bewitching. But who wants to watch normal people doing normal stuff? The idea is to watch normal people doing uncommon things. Snoring is normal indeed. But farting in one's sleep and waking oneself in the process was what made people laugh. If the farting wasn't mentioned, the ad wouldn't have been as interesting. Agreed?

Too many similarities for me to be comfortable and thus I concur that it is fair to question the case for plagiarism.

There are a lot more 'wrongs' in the ad if one were to witchhunt. For example,
1) Indian lady marries Chinese man but still wears her traditional Indian clothes. What are the chances of that happening in real life?
2) She and the other mourners were not appropriately dressed for a funeral
3) The photo of the couple when they were young didn't quite look like her and her deceased husband
4) In the saidd photo, she was dressed in Western wedding attire. If she was sooo into her Indian heritage as shown in her attire at the funeral then it would have been even more likely that she would have dressed herself in a traditional Indian wedding gown.

Now, there's your witchhunt!

 

[SneeringTree]

She said it warmed her heart. So that isn't an inspiration of some kind? Presumably she had meant to say she suffered an attack of heartburn while watching Good Will Hunting.

Right... So in future should you ever submit a work which was found to share glaring similarities with another already published, you can always claimed you were "inspired" by that work. Hair splitter.

Presumably you know the Truth and we're just ignorant people hell-bent on accusing Yasmin of plagiarising a work without any evidence.

Touche touche. Actually what I meant was that only Yasmin knows the truth but since you have already catagorically stated that she would not tell the truth, the truth would never be known. You are the one who is smart enough to accuse the director of naturally lying because, well, she obviously would not say she plagiarized.

By the way, inspiration is different from plagiarism. Period. Many generations of urban sociologists are inspired by the works of Jane Jacobs, it does not mean that they plagiarize her ideas.

 

[Defennder]

Touche touche. Actually what I meant was that only Yasmin knows the truth but since you have already catagorically stated that she would not tell the truth, the truth would never be known. You are the one who is smart enough to accuse the director of naturally lying because, well, she obviously would not say she plagiarized.

She made some statement to that effect. Come on, excercise some common sense. If an academic work was found to share great similarities with another already published, would the guilt of plagiarism rest solely on whether the individual admits to it? Of course not!

We can't know the truth for certain unless Yasmin admits to it, just as we can't know for sure a scholar plagiarised a work unless he admits to it. That doesn't mean we should disregard the similarities already present in both published works.

By the way, inspiration is different from plagiarism. Period. Many generations of urban sociologists are inspired by the works of Jane Jacobs, it does not mean that they plagiarize her ideas.

This is tiresome. You're obviously trying to bait me into another debate so you can regain the offensive. Sorry, I won't be taking it up. If you think they're different in this context then we differ; I'm not willing to discuss what it might mean in some other sociological context.

 

[Ah Guan]

I stopped reading the thread after a while

MY GOD! So much to argue over a loud fart no one heard!