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Living in JB 3 (Johore)

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curiouscat

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...high rental and labour costs kill most of the startups.

Business thinking has to change. The best startup success area in the world by far is Silicon Valley - very expensive rentals, very high taxes (USA + California), very high health care costs (USA health care costs nearly double every other rich country - much more than double Singapore), very high labor costs. They are successful in spite of this. Singapore's costs have risen greatly in the last 30 years. The challenges of startups that provide great paying jobs for extremely high paid workers (needed to be rich in current Singapore or San Francisco) is very different from what is needed 30 years ago in Singapore. Singapore is doing well actually, but being very successful at creating businesses that succeed with very high costs is very hard (much harder than being successful at what Singapore did 50 and 30 years ago - basically being competent and not having government screw everything up, which is pretty much what most other places have to deal with).

If Iskandar is successful, they will much more quickly run into the challenges Singapore faces now. Costs is Iskandar will soar quickly if success approaches even 75% of the economic success Singapore achieved by 2010. Iskandar doing well in the next 10-15 years really should not be hard - basically you have to be significantly less bad than most governments (which shouldn't be hard). If that happens the next 10-15 years are much harder to keep improving economic gains (you get the easy wins first then the hard stuff starts - you have to be doing tons of things very well, eduction, medical care, urban planing, government ethics [limited corruption], government executing well, long term planing, financial regulation...). Singapore had the same thing, though with longer time scales. Keeping a high earning economy (like Singapore's now) is much harder, you have to keep doing nearly all those things very well or you quickly stagnate or start going backward).

Iskandar provides an "escape valve" for costs (like the suburbs of Manhattan) but lots of other stuff has to go well too. I think Singapore is failing at managing population growth. I think trying to grow as much as they have has been a mistake and they compounded it with other planning mistakes (MRT, for example).

But there really are very few countries situated more favorably for the next 50 years. Malaysia is in good shape too, but is still riskier, they need more success to build a cushion of economic wealth that allows countries to absorb shocks and mistakes. Yes, Singapore and Malaysia have some issues, but everywhere has issues and I don't think anywhere has fewer, or less challenging, issues facing them. Other countries that are likely in pretty good shape include Norway, Sweden, Canada and some others (but there are plenty of arguments for placing Singapore very highly in comparison). The USA has lots of strengths (probably more than any country) they also have some pretty big challenges (near the top of countries that are not complete basket-cases and I think certainly the top of all rich country) still they are in the group with the best prospects in my opinion. China has big potential and huge challenges. Japan has very big demographic and financial challenges. Germany, Korea... have potential but also challenges. And that repeats for tons of countries though you also get lots with many more challenges than good opportunities.
 

PuteriWorld

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I am lucky to have purchased JB condos @ S$100,000 and still holding it for retirement. I still don't know where I want to retire but after staying in JB for a few years I felt lonely and bored at times. Every other day is Jusco, Tesco and Giant.. Or Sutera Mall. Wanna see the beach and I got to drive 1 hour to the nearest beach. Maybe I will retire in more rural area in Malaysia. Selling a condo in Singapore will get me estimated S$1.5 million. IF I plan to retire in Singapore, don't think I will drive around so I save on car, the most expensive item which make Singapore the "most expensive" in the world. And I will buy a two room flat to stay in with CPF sub.

The last I check I just need to pay at most S$15,000 for a flat. The rest are subsidied.

There you go. You are sorted and retire in JB. But I don't think you could anymore in the most expensive city in the world.
 

PuteriWorld

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This is my observation. Lacking depth or not this is what I observed when I in-out JB since decades ago. Just that among these people who are also my friends, they never struck it rich. You say they lead comfortable life I do agree. You say their kids lead comfortable lives I have to agree. But what I see are these kids struggling to find a decent job in Malaysia when they pass SPM and even if they got a job, the salary is RM 1200 a month. That's why many got no choice but STILL got to come to Singapore to face the jams.

One thing I observe during my decades of in-out JB is that the people who tried all means of ways to save on petrol and food etc by going to JB to do everything and I really mean EVERYTHING ( I was one of them ), never became rich. You see the bikers coming in for decades. You see Sporeans staying in JB and in-out daily. They were never very rich. The ones who really made it very rich really stay in Singapore and I don't know the rationale behind. Its true. I am not looking down on anyone. Just stating an observation.

I think yr obsevation is lacking depth.
Firstly u are not comparing apple to apple, ie poor johorean to poor Singapoean ,mid class to mid class n rich class to rich class. My observation is that of JB poor live a more fullfiling live then those poor in SG. The middle class JB N those SPRs maybe better off than those middle class Singaporean. Just take a look at how many banded cars (some are SG plate hor) each of these family own in those GNG estates .
The only class that are much better off and getting richer is the rich elite Singapore that wont need or wont want to step into JB . They are many time richer than the rich in JB without the need to move their butt, dont need to travel in n out of JB lah.
 

PuteriWorld

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In your opinion what kind of jobs have no or little stress? Everytime I sit inside a cab, the pal complained till kingdom come. Cmon its just driving around but they are so stressful.

The security guards in my industrial also complained about stress from unreasonable tenants and visitors who spew all kinds of nasty language on them.

Even the bumis in Malaysia has stress even when the govt throw everything cheap cheap at them at the expense of the other races.

A relative of mine held high position in a company, but it was a stressful job. He eventually contracted brain cancer in his 40s and passed away. Too much stress is not always good.
 

PuteriWorld

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Didn't you read the papers before? A Malaysian had his hand CHOPPED off by a robber and he was told to take Q number and Q up by the nurse and after waiting for 1 hour, his immediately family drove him to Tan Tock Seng to sew back the hand. This kind of service if you give me FOC I wont take it. My life in Singapore is cheap but my life is not FOC for sure.

Wow you are such a good son in law to pay Rm38k for your JB father in law operation, no wonder Singaporean husbands are highly sought after...No lah, those are not rumours but the truth that medication is free for elderly in Malaysia, I have come across one retired Msian SPR who goes to JB to collect free medicine and he is not even poor, his last job was CEO with chauffeur! Also, I remember one Msian SPR forummer here who posted about his father's hospital stay in JB, the quality of care was good and only paid few dollars.

I have not been to a JB public hospital before and am not sure of the length of wait required for operation there, and whether they would be able to give immediate assistance when an urgent heart bypass operation is required. Perhaps they could and if so, you would not need to pay Rm38k for it. For private hospital, i think it is the norm to make sure you can pay first by showing an insurance company guarantee letter or pay cash/credit card for it before they give treatment.
 

FHBH12

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In your opinion what kind of jobs have no or little stress? Everytime I sit inside a cab, the pal complained till kingdom come. Cmon its just driving around but they are so stressful.

The security guards in my industrial also complained about stress from unreasonable tenants and visitors who spew all kinds of nasty language on them.

Even the bumis in Malaysia has stress even when the govt throw everything cheap cheap at them at the expense of the other races.

Stress at work is okay, but when it is carried into your personal life at night or over the weekend, this will be of concern. Complain is a way of relieving stress :wink:
 

FHBH12

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I am lucky to have purchased JB condos @ S$100,000 and still holding it for retirement. I still don't know where I want to retire but after staying in JB for a few years I felt lonely and bored at times. Every other day is Jusco, Tesco and Giant.. Or Sutera Mall. Wanna see the beach and I got to drive 1 hour to the nearest beach. Maybe I will retire in more rural area in Malaysia. Selling a condo in Singapore will get me estimated S$1.5 million. IF I plan to retire in Singapore, don't think I will drive around so I save on car, the most expensive item which make Singapore the "most expensive" in the world. And I will buy a two room flat to stay in with CPF sub.

The last I check I just need to pay at most S$15,000 for a flat. The rest are subsidied.

That might be a downgrade in lifestyle if you come over to SG for retirement. JB will become a better place for retirement :wink: You might wish to take up golf or involve in charities.
 

FHBH12

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This is my observation. Lacking depth or not this is what I observed when I in-out JB since decades ago. Just that among these people who are also my friends, they never struck it rich. You say they lead comfortable life I do agree. You say their kids lead comfortable lives I have to agree. But what I see are these kids struggling to find a decent job in Malaysia when they pass SPM and even if they got a job, the salary is RM 1200 a month. That's why many got no choice but STILL got to come to Singapore to face the jams.

SG remains the much better place to earn $. Favorable exchange rate and plenty of job opportunities are big incentives to stay in SG in your working life. My sense is these attractions of SG are so good that more (Chinese) Malaysians from the northern states are migrating downwards to JB to stay and work in SG. SG is still a foreign and expensive country to them so they may not choose to stay in SG. This is derived from other indirect observations (e.g. unusually huge number of bikes at 1st and 2nd links during peak hours in recent 1/2 years), although I do not have actual data on them.
 

malpaso

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That might be a downgrade in lifestyle if you come over to SG for retirement. JB will become a better place for retirement :wink: You might wish to take up golf or involve in charities.

actually, just a quick observation.. have you ever stayed in malaysia for extended periods (> 1 year) before? i meant, permanently stay, not in-out for weekends. i think retiring in Sg (if can afford it) is better. safer and more organized, and more activities. and other more important things which is not nice to mention here.
 
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FHBH12

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actually, just a quick observation.. have you ever stayed in malaysia for extended periods (> 1 year) before? i meant, permanently stay, not in-out for weekends. i think retiring in Sg (if can afford it) is better. safer and more organized, and more activities. and other more important things which is not nice to mention here.

Not really. But I enjoyed my stay at my grandma's kampong at Lim Chu Kang when I was a kid, where I played with chicks and dogs, catch wild fish in the streams and walked over gravel roads with barefoot. Malaysia reminds me of that old happy days :biggrin: Except for the crime rates, the rest are okay. Nevermind, I can wait for another 30+ years for Malaysia to get better and if not there are Thailand (choice #2) and other countries to consider for my retirement :p
 

29ers

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NEVER COMPARE ...it's the basis we keep wanting to better one another. When will it end?

Just something to ponder over.

Ah Meng has been eating ABC Chicken rice for lunch for the past 20 years and he likes it, he has never tried steak, Mcdonalds, Ramen etc. What makes you think that by eating Mcdonalds, steak or ramen he will be happier? To some people the feel they should explore the world see every corner, sample of the various food but to some they are happy eating their ABC Chicken rice.

Do note that doesn't mean that you drive mercedes you will be happier then the guy driving a toyota..of course the guy driving the toyota may not be happy if he keeps thinking how and what he can do to buy a mercedes. Likewise the guy driving Mercedes is happy driving it and does not have any intention to buy a RR.

There is no real way to gauge happiness....only YOU know how happy you are.



HAGWE
 

whoami

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NEVER COMPARE ...it's the basis we keep wanting to better one another. When will it end?

Just something to ponder over.

Ah Meng has been eating ABC Chicken rice for lunch for the past 20 years and he likes it, he has never tried steak, Mcdonalds, Ramen etc. What makes you think that by eating Mcdonalds, steak or ramen he will be happier?

Hmm....the ABC chicken rice coffee shop at malacca is sedap. Slurp....:smile:
 

congo9

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This is my observation. Lacking depth or not this is what I observed when I in-out JB since decades ago. Just that among these people who are also my friends, they never struck it rich. You say they lead comfortable life I do agree. You say their kids lead comfortable lives I have to agree. But what I see are these kids struggling to find a decent job in Malaysia when they pass SPM and even if they got a job, the salary is RM 1200 a month. That's why many got no choice but STILL got to come to Singapore to face the jams.

Hi i read your comment and observation. I understand what angle are you coming from. You are not looking down on people. That is for sure.

I think what you are trying to say is that there are traits of character in certain successful people. I am not as successful. But anyway, i enjoyed JB a lot for food and cheap petrol. Yesterday when i was at Singapore petrol station. The pump price for 92 is S$2.19 before discount. Mind you , it the lowest grade of petrol in Singapore.

Tonight i am travelling in to buy milk powder and some photo copy paper for myself and baby. Hahahaha. Of course, regular car wash at RM8

But truth to be told , if i am making SGD2K and i am driving a Malaysia plate car and living in Malaysia. I certainly feel much better then Singaporean who is earning 5K Sgd who owns a car and a house in Singapore. The quality of life can simply be better.
 
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Gardener

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Well said...

This thread has become lively once more.

NEVER COMPARE ...it's the basis we keep wanting to better one another. When will it end?

Just something to ponder over.

Ah Meng has been eating ABC Chicken rice for lunch for the past 20 years and he likes it, he has never tried steak, Mcdonalds, Ramen etc. What makes you think that by eating Mcdonalds, steak or ramen he will be happier? To some people the feel they should explore the world see every corner, sample of the various food but to some they are happy eating their ABC Chicken rice.

Do note that doesn't mean that you drive mercedes you will be happier then the guy driving a toyota..of course the guy driving the toyota may not be happy if he keeps thinking how and what he can do to buy a mercedes. Likewise the guy driving Mercedes is happy driving it and does not have any intention to buy a RR.

There is no real way to gauge happiness....only YOU know how happy you are.



HAGWE
 

Gardener

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SPORE is a great plc to earn money I agree coz time is money here.

Crime happens in Spore too.

LIFE IS Not FOC but cheap?

LET ME think. If I recollect well cases of ..... not hand Chop off.... But death has occurred from negligence.

Life not FOC..... BUT cheap la..... that's why pay (not subsidized) n then mati.

Or maybe I enjoy being thrown naked on bed by FT Nurses. Remember d old woman case?

Or broken n fractured bones in hospital due to whatever?

Medicines non available?

Life not FOC.... BUT CHEAP.....PAY TO DIE.
 
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whoami

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Pay and pay until like under life support system. Die better than half dead/alive. Nang bo ti nang. Kui bo ti kui. Rather work and slot, earn good money and retire North.
 

Gardener

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Every other day go GIANT/TESCO/Jusco?

How about every day chop table with TISSUE PACKET.

QUEUE TO b seated.

Have people standing next to you and staring down at you so that you eat faster n vacate the table/seats for them.

How about queue for taxi whereas someone flags down a cab by jumping queue
 

Frodo

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And now there is shortfall the govt simply hire doctors from India, Sri Lanka, Philippines etc to fill the shortage. I have doubts of the qualification of these doctors, especially in recent years there have been cases of India/Sri lanka and even Malaysian doctors in Spore in the news for molesting nurse/patient.

This is character/moral issue, not qualification issue.:wink:
 

Gardener

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The issue earlier being spoken about was stress brings out the best in ppl or to that effect and not about job having stress or otherwise.

And hence my rejoinder.
 
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