Liu Qian's magic show last night

[Ramseth]

By the way, Weird Al had to buy the rights to the tune before he could play it.

Yes of course, and notice I did mention that Wierd Al had to pay MJ royalty for the tune as it used for commercial purpose. It has nothing to do with doing parody or doing a straight cover version. Thousands of performers mimicked MJ and Elvis dance moves on stage, even complete with replica clothings, whether amateur or professional. I didn't hear MJ and Elvis complained or sued. The point is they're not claiming to be MJ or Elvis. They're actually paying a compliment to them as masters by learning, mimicking and practising all those moves (tricks in the case of magic).

A good and gracious master would be well pleased. Only a petty one throws a tantrum with a thin and untenable disguise under intellectual property rights.

 

[cass888]

A good and gracious master would be well pleased. Only a petty one throws a tantrum with a thin and untenable disguise under intellectual property rights.

Ramseth, you may have been correct if this were any other performance. However, I believe this was some kind of a "contest" so there were rules imposed. Nothing wrong with Liu Qian enforcing the rules and the code of conduct of magicians.

 

[Rogue Trader]

They're actually paying a compliment to them as masters by learning, mimicking and practising all those moves (tricks in the case of magic).

A good and gracious master would be well pleased. Only a petty one throws a tantrum with a thin and untenable disguise under intellectual property rights.

nothing to do with pettiness. when someone steals your property, lets see how you like to claim to be the master.

 

[Ramseth]

Ramseth, you may have been correct if this were any other performance. However, I believe this was some kind of a "contest" so there were rules imposed. Nothing wrong with Liu Qian enforcing the rules and the code of conduct of magicians.

Well that I'm not sure, but if the rules of the contest included originality, then I have nothing to say. However, that's a big and unlikely if. For if that's so stated to contestants, there wouldn't have been so many incidents of copies, even with one declaring upfront. But I say again, if the rules of the contest included originality, then I have nothing to say.

 

[cass888]

Well that I'm not sure, but if the rules of the contest included originality, then I have nothing to say. However, that's a big and unlikely if. For if that's so stated to contestants, there wouldn't have been so many incidents of copies, even with one declaring upfront. But I say again, if the rules of the contest included originality, then I have nothing to say.

Well, this was reiterated right at the beginning of the show.

 

[Ramseth]

Well, this was reiterated right at the beginning of the show.

Then fair enough, I must have missed that. My apologies to Liu Qian and Rogue Trader.

 

[Rogue Trader]

Then fair enough, I must have missed that. My apologies to Liu Qian and Rogue Trader.

No problem at all. This thread was originally started to talk about Chinaman's low class behaviour on a televised show. Some of the acts, especially the final one, are actually of very high standard.. The show ended with trailers for next week. Apparently there will be more drama.

I am, however, still not dropping the stand on intellectual rights protection. It will be another discussion for another day when I am less busy.

 

[jw5]

I'm not a big fan of Liu Qian's magic or him as a person, but I would have to agree with him on this.
As a judge, it's up to him to decide who gives a good performance, and if he decides it's someone who does something original or someone who doesn't expose a fellow magician's act, it's his decision.

If the contestants are not happy about his decisions, they can go and take part in another competition or go and get themselves a judge's gig in another competition.

It's the integrity and logical arguments of some of these prc nationals that I have a problem with. Some of them can argue until the cows come home for something that they want to achieve using the most absurd of reasoning. Those of you who have worked in China before and come into daily contact with prc workers, would know.

 

[RK85]

Not a bad show actually. Some of the contestants appeared on the Variety Big Brother show by Zhang Fei & the standards are quite good. One of them; the funny guy with the appearing bottles trick & next week another one who got the Mainland champion in the Big Brother show, very professional.

No doubt, some contestants reacted badly when they got bad comments from the judges but not only China people like that. Some are good, some bad. In American Idol, some were even worse when got ticked off by Simon. One used vulgar language, some with finger signs, one even splashed the glass of water at Simon. Americans also got good & bad, same as any country.

 

[Rogue Trader]

next week another one who got the Mainland champion in the Big Brother show, very professional.

i remember this guy. they called him Mr Heilongjiang. he performed all the card tricks. very very impressive. I don't understand why they made him joint champion with the Taiwanese guy when he was clearly miles ahead.

 

[cooleo]

I disagree. Plagiarism is stealing. You can copy a trick. But you shouldn't copy a performance.

A character from a tv series once said "Tricks are what whores do....". So in the context of magicians.....

 

[RK85]

Bocz its a Taiwan show mah; & the judges also Taiwanese except the Hongkie guy so I think a bit kelong.

Anyway, this guy is so good that Liu Qian actually ask him backstage on how he did the balloon trick on Big Brother.

i remember this guy. they called him Mr Heilongjiang. he performed all the card tricks. very very impressive. I don't understand why they made him joint champion with the Taiwanese guy when he was clearly miles ahead.

 

[cass888]

No doubt, some contestants reacted badly when they got bad comments from the judges but not only China people like that. Some are good, some bad. In American Idol, some were even worse when got ticked off by Simon. One used vulgar language, some with finger signs, one even splashed the glass of water at Simon. Americans also got good & bad, same as any country.

You sure it's not part of the wayang? Like they get the American idol judges to be caustic and get the contestants to fire back (if not why wasn't that part censored?)

 

[RK85]

Maybe. This makes it even more drama to attract more viewers, if not it would be pretty boring if everything censored.

You sure it's not part of the wayang? Like they get the American idol judges to be caustic and get the contestants to fire back (if not why wasn't that part censored?)

 

[KuanTi01]

I'm not a big fan of Liu Qian's magic or him as a person, but I would have to agree with him on this.
As a judge, it's up to him to decide who gives a good performance, and if he decides it's someone who does something original or someone who doesn't expose a fellow magician's act, it's his decision.

If the contestants are not happy about his decisions, they can go and take part in another competition or go and get themselves a judge's gig in another competition.

It's the integrity and logical arguments of some of these prc nationals that I have a problem with. Some of them can argue until the cows come home for something that they want to achieve using the most absurd of reasoning. Those of you who have worked in China before and come into daily contact with prc workers, would know.

Having dealt with PRC people before, I can second that. They can be very passionate or obstinate depending on the situation. Even when they are wrong, they'll still argue to say they are right and expect you to accept their reasoning; warped most of the time imho! Even a well-known celebrity judge like Liu Qian is not spared! Btw, a judge is empowered to make decisions, not all of which are popular or well-received. Often, a bad workman quarrels with his tools!

 

[Queen Seok Duk]

The PRC amateurs are right. There's no such thing as magic copyright. How do amateur magicians learn? They go to magic shops to buy books and gadgets. What do these teach? These teach what professional magicians have done before. Liu Qian shouldn't show off his encyclopaedic knowledge of what's been done before and even worse, shouldn't disallow participant to replicate his own trick. More points should be awarded for originality instead. He's a combination of ego and insecurity. However, the PRC participants' uncouth reactions are also uncalled for and reflect very bad on their manners and upbringings.

This is another issue that we see eye to eye.

It's oxymoron to even suggest that a particular magic trick is copyrighted. If the trick is made a secret and not published at all, how can it be copyrighted in the first place ?

 

[Rogue Trader]

Most people only see it as a entertainment. But for professional magicians it is their rice bowl.

Magicians sue Japan TV networks
A group of 49 Japanese magicians is suing two local television networks for revealing the secrets behind a series of coin tricks in news footage.

The case, filed in Tokyo District Court on Tuesday, seeks damages of 1.9m yen (£8,239) from Nippon Television Network Corp and TV Asahi Corp.
Magician Shintaro Fujiyama said the broadcasters had "deprived professional magicians of their assets".
Asahi said it saw no problem with the footage. Nippon TV declined to comment.
"It takes us many years to develop a coin trick as a professional tool," said Mr Fujiyama, 52.
"They must understand how all the time we have spent is wasted by exposure of the trick," he said.
The two networks revealed how the coin tricks were completed last November, after a magician and a pub operator were arrested for punching holes in coins. It is against the law to damage or melt coins in Japan.

 

[cheowyonglee]

Then fair enough, I must have missed that. My apologies to Liu Qian and Rogue Trader.

becos u are pro communist ..... :oIo:

 

[Rogue Trader]

This is hardly binding in court, but there is a magician's code:

CODE OF ETHICS

<HR SIZE=5 width="100%">

On May 8, 1993, the IBM Board of Directors approved the following Code of Ethics jointly with the Society of American Magicians. This was the result of a cooperative effort to work together for the betterment of magic.

All members of the International Brotherhood of Magicians agree to:

1) Oppose the willful exposure to the public of any principles of the Art of Magic, or the methods employed in any magic effect or illusion.

2) Display ethical behavior in the presentation of magic to the public and in our conduct as magicians, including not interfering with or jeopardizing the performance of another magician either through personal intervention or the unauthorized use of another's creation.

3) Recognize and respect for rights of the creators, inventors, authors, and owners of magic concepts, presentations, effects and literature, and their rights to have exclusive use of, or to grant permission for the use by others of such creations.

4) Discourage false or misleading statements in the advertising of effects, and literature, merchandise or actions pertaining to the magical arts.

5) Discourage advertisement in magic publications for any magical apparatus, effect, literature or other materials for which the advertiser does not have commercial rights.

6) Promote the humane treatment and care of livestock used in magical performances.

​

By the way, IBM here refers to international brotherhood of magicians, not the ah neh infested IT company.
​

 

[Queen Seok Duk]

Noticed IBM refrained from using the term 'copyright'.