Lim Chong Yah versus the monolithic PAP

[Thick Face Black Heart]

This is not the first time that a former establishment member has taken on the monolithic PAP, neither will it be the last (hopefully).

Prof Lim's points are spot on, and they are highly embarrassing to the PAP as they expose clearly their lack of attention to basic human dignity and the right to fair wages for Singaporeans (NOTE: fair does not mean high, fair means you are paid fairly based on what you have done and you're not exploited by companies that don't follow the spirit of the law or cheated by unscrupulous wage structures and lack of union representation).

What distinguishes this from previous episodes is that there are elements within the estab sympathetic to Prof Lim's views and not happy that the government is still trying to shovel its mercenary attitude down peoples' throats rather than acknowledging that there is a real problem.

The cracks are forming, and those at the top know it. People like Lee Yi Shyan are only making matters worse by clinging on and harping on the old PAP doctrines like a broken record out of time and place.

 

[scroobal]

It took him 9 years to rebuild his courage after the NTU disaster on a similar issue and all credit to him. He is alone and taking on the govt. His associates however caved in and ended up with a public spat with Ng Kok Lim who tore the associates argument to pieces.

There are 2 parts to LCY's claim. One there is a divide and it continues to grow and society will not be better of for it. The second is his solution. Note that the PAP have sent in their minor politicians and they are also arguing in simple terms about the solution. The gini coefficient has been raised a number of times but many are not aware of its value. Lim Chong Yah realised that and spoke about wages and renumerations, something that all can understand.

Lets see where this goes. Time for the like of Mukul Asher and company to step into the ring with LCY.

Imagine a salaried staff of a GLC renting out a property to the tune of $35K per month. Not per year but per month. That is only one property. And we now have small business time businessmen and hawkers having to pay hefty rental and now having to part with their profits as part of rental agreement.

 

[Bigfuck]

Mukul was given a gag order and this was raised in the old coffeeshop. Also, without a central kitchen and without using precooked food and reheating, how does a 1-2man hawker stall sell more than 400 bowls or plates of anything? I am only looking at supply side. 35K/mth is called Chinese feudal and corrupt imperial system. History shows only one outcome and it ain't pretty.

 

[groober2011]

He is punching above his weight, when can we expect those idiots in the government to do the same instead of whining and not wanting to swallow the bitter pill?

 

[zhihau]

The cracks are forming, and those at the top know it.

bro,
冰冻三尺, 非一日之寒。

 

[Simbian]

It took him 9 years to rebuild his courage after the NTU disaster on a similar issue and all credit to him. He is alone and taking on the govt. His associates however caved in and ended up with a public spat with Ng Kok Lim who tore the associates argument to pieces.

There are 2 parts to LCY's claim. One there is a divide and it continues to grow and society will not be better of for it. The second is his solution. Note that the PAP have sent in their minor politicians and they are also arguing in simple terms about the solution. The gini coefficient has been raised a number of times but many are not aware of its value. Lim Chong Yah realised that and spoke about wages and renumerations, something that all can understand.

Lets see where this goes. Time for the like of Mukul Asher and company to step into the ring with LCY.

Imagine a salaried staff of a GLC renting out a property to the tune of $35K per month. Not per year but per month. That is only one property. And we now have small business time businessmen and hawkers having to pay hefty rental and now having to part with their profits as part of rental agreement.

The small business owners and employers are not stupid. In earlier dialogues and open articles in the propaganda machine, they already say very loudly they want more help in terms of rents and other costs that is not labour. Whether this government got enough balls to reply in kind is already a foregone conclusion since no one - not even LHL himself - dare to even openly castigate TH and GIC for their multi-billion losses.

 

[Kinana]

The small business owners and employers are not stupid. In earlier dialogues and open articles in the propaganda machine, they already say very loudly they want more help in terms of rents and other costs that is not labour. Whether this government got enough balls to reply in kind is already a foregone conclusion since no one - not even LHL himself - dare to even openly castigate TH and GIC for their multi-billion losses.

Thats correct. Salaries are within the direct control of the business owners. Thats why they do not tell the govt to control salary levels you dummy.
So why should the govt tell the business owners what to pay now?

 

[aurvandil]

There are 2 parts to LCY's claim. One there is a divide and it continues to grow and society will not be better of for it. The second is his solution. Note that the PAP have sent in their minor politicians and they are also arguing in simple terms about the solution. The gini coefficient has been raised a number of times but many are not aware of its value. Lim Chong Yah realised that and spoke about wages and renumerations, something that all can understand.

LCY ID the problem but failed to come up with a viable policy proposal.

The elite branch of the PAP on the other hand are in denial and think that making less than convincing rebuttals will make the problem go away.

In the mean time, the Gini looks headed to go above 0.5. Based on existing polcies of the elite branch of the PAP, it looks like it will stay there for an extendeded period. Hence one of the necessary though not sufficent conditions for the PAP to fall from power have been fulfilled.

 

[Bigfuck]

LCY ID the problem but failed to come up with a viable policy proposal.

The elite branch of the PAP on the other hand are in denial and think that making less than convincing rebuttals will make the problem go away.

In the mean time, the Gini looks headed to go above 0.5. Based on existing polcies of the elite branch of the PAP, it looks like it will stay there for an extendeded period. Hence one of the necessary though not sufficent conditions for the PAP to fall from power have been fulfilled.

I suspect it is already above 0.5 before massaging.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

bro,
冰冻三尺, 非一日之寒。

Very true.....

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I suspect the PAP is banking on the fact that:

(1) the hardest hit by unreasonably low wages are foreign construction workers, which majority of Singaporeans do not really care about (only TWC2 is actually doing something about foreign construction workers)

(2) the low wage Singaporeans like cleaners and daily-rated workers in the civil sector, etc, don't form a large voting bloc, and even if they feel pressured many of them historically have voted PAP anyway

It comes down to cold political calculations. PAP seems to be protecting the MNCs and GLCs who need the addictive drug of cheap labour whether domestic or foreign and they have calculated that the political cost is not high enough to warrant a change in policy.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

You are right.

The situation is pathetic (esp the part in bold).

The small business owners and employers are not stupid. In earlier dialogues and open articles in the propaganda machine, they already say very loudly they want more help in terms of rents and other costs that is not labour. Whether this government got enough balls to reply in kind is already a foregone conclusion since no one - not even LHL himself - dare to even openly castigate TH and GIC for their multi-billion losses.

 

[aurvandil]

(2) the low wage Singaporeans like cleaners and daily-rated workers in the civil sector, etc, don't form a large voting bloc, and even if they feel pressured many of them historically have voted PAP anyway

This part is unfortunately factually inaccurate.

The wage supression via the FT policy is not restricted to lowly educated WP holders who compete with the poorest of the poor in Singapore.

We also have wage supression at the tertiary level with a large number of FT being admitted under SP and EP schemes. Beyond this, we also set aside 20% to 25% of places in our tertiary instituitions for foreigners in every cohort. When these foreigners gradaute, they would automatically compete with Singaporeans for jobs on top of the foreigners trying to get in via SP/EP.

This explains why the push back against the FT policy has now expanded to include many white collar workers who feel that they are being displaced.

The worsening Gini is therefore not only about the the gap between the richest and poorest in Singapore. It is also about how middle income Singaporeans are moving downwards to become lower middle and even lower income.

 

[aurvandil]

I suspect it is already above 0.5 before massaging.

There is a little known fundamental weakness about the way in which DOS generates income data which leads to an understatement of the Gini with regard to the way Gini is calculated in other countries. This has nothing to do with subsidies and everything to do with the source of the data. The problem is therefore much more serious than what LCY is saying using the offical published numbers.

The irony is that the weakness is so obscure that few people know about it. I'll bet most of our PAP Ministers and MPs are in the dark about it. Which makes it all the more likely they will "caught off gaurd" again.

 

[Bigfuck]

There is a little known fundamental weakness about the way in which DOS generates income data which leads to an understatement of the Gini with regard to the way Gini is calculated in other countries. This has nothing to do with subsidies and everything to do with the source of the data. The problem is therefore much more serious than what LCY is saying using the offical published numbers.

The irony is that the weakness is so obscure that few people know about it. I'll bet most of our PAP Ministers and MPs are in the dark about it. Which makes it all the more likely they will "caught off gaurd" again.

Well, some asshole who is very much retired but receiving obscene paid once said this. "Statistics is like the bikini. It is not what it shows that is exciting. It is what it hides that is exciting."

 

[Kinana]

Wow, so far no one can explain how LCY's idea can prevent inflation and make it worst for the poor.

 

[kingrant]

Very true! Good point.

This explains why the push back against the FT policy has now expanded to include many white collar workers who feel that they are being displaced.

The worsening Gini is therefore not only about the the gap between the richest and poorest in Singapore. It is also about how middle income Singaporeans are moving downwards to become lower middle and even lower income.

 

[Kinana]

Did LCY tell you his GINI measurement include foreign workers?

 

[Bigfuck]

Wow, so far no one can explain how LCY's idea can prevent inflation and make it worst for the poor.

Why must it cause inflation? Why is inflation bad? Is inflation always bad? Did you study about the benefits of inflation? How does it make things worse for the poor? Did you siam
your credits in public policy? Oh, it is almost 6pm. Did you take your medication?

 

[aurvandil]

Did LCY tell you his GINI measurement include foreign workers?

LCY did not calculate the Gini. He is using the numbers are reported by DOS.