Is it too late to save singapore?

[bushtucker]

Factual corrections ...population 5.4 million, 2.9 millions are foreigners.
Of the 2.5 million sinkees, don't know how many are naturalized. So, native sinkees is fewer than 2.5 million.

It is true that foreigner population has overtaken born-and-bred-in-SG citizen population. Sinkies are the minority now.

 

[Charlie99]

Forget about Singapore. It's just a tiny island. That's what I am saying.

Big countries do not worry about "survival". The economy is weak, downturn in the oil patch.....tough times indeed but nobody will say the province is going to disappear Much less the actual country!

The problem with Singapore is that there is a real possibility of the country disappearing. As you rightly pointed out there is no real culture. everything is sacrificed for money because without money there is no country. Who can live in Singapore if the Singapore dollar was worthless? No food. No fuel for power. No energy to purify water. Dead.

So don't wast time on that island. It was good, it provided well, it might continue to do so, but there will always be this big question mark hanging over that will forever impede freedom and liberty. It is not the government. It is the country. Size matters.

If you drive a tiny little car among lots of big trucks and SUVs you will feel it. If you are a small dinghy boat on the ocean with big oil tankers you will feel it. Same goes for Singapore. Singapore has punched above its weight economically. Take advantage of that now before it disappears.

I hope you find the peace and tranquility that I have found. Cheers!

Your recent posts remind me of my discussions in the late 1980's, with a university friend who is an engineer.
At that time, after been in Toronto for less than a decade, I was wondering whether or not to return to Singapore.
My friend suggested that it may be better in the long run for me to be in Canada, notwithstanding that I will miss the good economic boom years and may be an opportunity to earn more income in Singapore.
His rationale is very similar to yours.
He indicated that although Singapore's economy was booming then, it is like a "flywheel" (engineering lingo), it may spin out of control (or existence), whereas Canada is big, grow slowly, and continue into the long term.
There is no question that many of my classmates, schoolmates, university friends are significantly more financially successful than me.
Fortunately, so far, there is "downside protection" in Canada: free medicare, free education from kindergarten to grade 12 (except private schools).
With respect, in my perspective, I believe that there are a few undesirable matters: the Canadian immigration policies are too liberal, even allow recent older immigrants to be entitled to Old Age Security; my perception that there are several immigrant communities which failed to integrate and live by the Canadian principles and philosophy; a relatively much higher personal income tax rates; etc.

 

[winnipegjets]

Your recent posts remind me of my discussions in the late 1980's, with a university friend who is an engineer.
At that time, after been in Toronto for less than a decade, I was wondering whether or not to return to Singapore.
My friend suggested that it may be better in the long run for me to be in Canada, notwithstanding that I will miss the good economic boom years and may be an opportunity to earn more income in Singapore.
His rationale is very similar to yours.
He indicated that although Singapore's economy was booming then, it is like a "flywheel" (engineering lingo), it may spin out of control (or existence), whereas Canada is big, grow slowly, and continue into the long term.
There is no question that many of my classmates, schoolmates, university friends are significantly more financially successful than me.
Fortunately, so far, there is "downside protection" in Canada: free medicare, free education from kindergarten to grade 12 (except private schools).
With respect, in my perspective, I believe that there are a few undesirable matters: the Canadian immigration policies are too liberal, even allow recent older immigrants to be entitled to Old Age Security; my perception that there are several immigrant communities which failed to integrate and live by the Canadian principles and philosophy; a relatively much higher personal income tax rates; etc.

If you pay 50 percent tax and get free childcare, free healthcare, free education up to post grad (includes monthly stipend), income for up to 2 years if you are unemployed and retirement pension, how would that trade off sound for you?

 

[Trick]

If really want to do it, basically nothing is too late.

It's all in your brain.

 

[winnipegjets]

our neighbouring countries are more shitty state then us.

why nobody over there calls to save their countries?

They have land ...lots of it. People are not desperate ...they have choices ...don't want to pay more, live in kampungs.

We got what? Nothing ...government dictates everything. We pay so much to government in terms of fees that we could be paying one of the highest 'taxes' in the world. CPF is a tax.

 

[winnipegjets]

I know many ex-Sporeans who have upgraded to a 1st world passport. They used to visit their friends and relatives & would re-visit their old haunts. However many of their relatives are passing away & the incessant "upgrading" of Spore is changing the face of Spore.

They're visits are becoming shorter & less frequent. There are fewer reasons for anyone to be in Spore if you are NOT working here. It reminds me of how someone describing Spore as a just a hotel. :(

My canuck friends used to come back every year. Then every other year. Now, once every few years. They say there is nothing to come back for. I asked ...the food. They said sinkapore food nothing special liao.
I want to go ..go where?

 

[SgGoneWrong]

If really want to do it, basically nothing is too late.

It's all in your brain.

Sinkies, don't listen to these IBs. Pap always tells us if you not happy you go. Sinkies must tell pap, if u not happy you go!

 

[SgGoneWrong]

My canuck friends used to come back every year. Then every other year. Now, once every few years. They say there is nothing to come back for. I asked ...the food. They said sinkapore food nothing special liao.
I want to go ..go where?

Stay in Sinkieland and claim back your motherland. Go where?
Between, sinkie food is really not special. It's like Malaysian food in aust.

 

[johnny333]

Visits are getting fewer due to strengthening of sinkie dollars against other world currencies.

Shopping wise there's not much to see & buy here that you can't find in nearby Thailand or Malaysia. Many Indonesian friends are telling me that it is cheaper elsewhere. Those who come here just for relaxation tell me that it is getting too expensive to even do that.

For the ex-Sporeans they can't even recognise the new Spore. They are here to see relatives & the old neighbourhood & now that the neighbourhood is gone, they make shorter visits. As their relatives pass on they will have no more ties to Spore.

 

[winnipegjets]

Singapore is not doomed. It just has to keep changing and adjusting in order to stay afloat. Just like a highly advanced sailboat. It is also not all just the government's fault that so many are inclined to blame. And those people who blame and complain are the same who enjoy privileges like hiring cheap foreign domestic workers to do their basic household chores in their own homes. It's going to take a lot more hard work than doing your own household chores to cut it in the real world. Which is why I don't believe the majority of native Singaporeans have what it takes to really keep Singapore going into the long term future.

Sinkapore is doomed if we continue with the intellectually and morally bankrupt PAP.
I thought paying our ministar million-dollar salary will enable this country to perform better than the developed countries. Wah lau, we are, at best, no better. But we are trailing the other developed countries.

Increasing population with a limited landsize to spur economic growth is a doomsday strategy. It is a matter of time before there will be bloodshed as the rule of the jungle takes over.

Aside, have you got your practice going yet?

 

[Charlie99]

If you pay 50 percent tax and get free childcare, free healthcare, free education up to post grad (includes monthly stipend), income for up to 2 years if you are unemployed and retirement pension, how would that trade off sound for you?

Although I do not know the details of the various social programs in Canada, I believe that there is no free child care (there may be subsidized child care for certain individuals and families), no free medical prescriptions (except for senior citizens, up to a certain amount), no free dental care (except those on social assistance), no free education after grade 12, no 2-yer income if an individual is unemployed (not sure how long is the "Employment Insurance" benefits, may be up to one year, but I have never claimed it, and therefore, I am not familiar), no retirement pension (other than Old Age Security, which is about $6,600 a year for those 65 and better).

The highest personal marginal tax bracket for Ontario is about 52%, but about ten years ago, it was about 53.5%, exigible at a "very low" taxable income threshhold"

 

[nayr69sg]

Your recent posts remind me of my discussions in the late 1980's, with a university friend who is an engineer.
At that time, after been in Toronto for less than a decade, I was wondering whether or not to return to Singapore.
My friend suggested that it may be better in the long run for me to be in Canada, notwithstanding that I will miss the good economic boom years and may be an opportunity to earn more income in Singapore.
His rationale is very similar to yours.
He indicated that although Singapore's economy was booming then, it is like a "flywheel" (engineering lingo), it may spin out of control (or existence), whereas Canada is big, grow slowly, and continue into the long term.
There is no question that many of my classmates, schoolmates, university friends are significantly more financially successful than me.
Fortunately, so far, there is "downside protection" in Canada: free medicare, free education from kindergarten to grade 12 (except private schools).
With respect, in my perspective, I believe that there are a few undesirable matters: the Canadian immigration policies are too liberal, even allow recent older immigrants to be entitled to Old Age Security; my perception that there are several immigrant communities which failed to integrate and live by the Canadian principles and philosophy; a relatively much higher personal income tax rates; etc.

I am just following in your footsteps albeit 30 years later.

All this talk about "economic boom" in Singapore....... unless you invested in property (eg have more than 1 property) it would have made no difference really. And you could have bought Singapore property while you were in Canada as well.

Canada is a huge country with abundance of natural resources. In an apocalyptic world, nuclear or zombie, Canada would still be the place to go to. No worries about the country disappearing or not surviving, much less sustaining the Canadians.

Immigration wise I do agree there are certain threats from that front, but Canada is not alone in that challenge. However the principles by which the country were founded upon say that we should not discriminate. Canada has lots of space. Hence it can absorb immigrants better. Immigrants do congregate with their kin and form "ghettos". It is human nature.

But because the country is large, as long as we don't venture in their "ghettos" we will not feel it. Yet.

Unlike Singapore where it is so crowded they have to put in law the idea of "integrating" as far as where people can live.

The high tax structure PLUS the estate duties is a great leveler. Helps to reduce that GINI coefficient and income disparity. A country that is truly for all should have a higher tax structure. It is as simple as that. Having said that even within Canada there are different provinces with different ideas about taxation. So there is still a choice. In Singapore there is NO CHOICE.

There is really no argument once you have seen the big picture and tasted the buffet.

 

[Charlie99]

They have land ...lots of it. People are not desperate ...they have choices ...don't want to pay more, live in kampungs.

We got what? Nothing ...government dictates everything. We pay so much to government in terms of fees that we could be paying one of the highest 'taxes' in the world. CPF is a tax.

I believe that CPF contributions cannot be considered a tax, because eventually, it will be returned to the contributing individual.

 

[nayr69sg]

Although I do not know the details of the various social programs in Canada, I believe that there is no free child care (there may be subsidized child care for certain individuals and families), no free medical prescriptions (except for senior citizens, up to a certain amount), no free dental care (except those on social assistance), no free education after grade 12, no 2-yer income if an individual is unemployed (not sure how long is the "Employment Insurance" benefits, may be up to one year, but I have never claimed it, and therefore, I am not familiar), no retirement pension (other than Old Age Security, which is about $6,600 a year for those 65 and better).

The highest personal marginal tax bracket for Ontario is about 52%, but about ten years ago, it was about 53.5%, exigible at a "very low" taxable income threshhold"

There are quite a number of Canucks in this forum eh?

Wonder why the Canada thread in the emigration folder isn't more active? We should get that going again

Professional corporation is a way to work around the tax stuff. I'll be practicing again in 2 months. So I've got these in the works as well.

At the end of the day the problem with Singapore is size. People start off in dorm rooms in university. Then maybe studio apartments. When they get married and have 3 kids why don't they continue to stay in their studio apartment? Size matters. Space matters.

 

[johnny333]

My canuck friends used to come back every year. Then every other year. Now, once every few years. They say there is nothing to come back for. I asked ...the food. They said sinkapore food nothing special liao.
I want to go ..go where?

I also used to miss the food while I was away in Canada. That was a long time ago but nowadays I'm more health conscious & the standard of local fare is pretty bad. So I am more likely to eat at home.

However when I'm traveling in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand,...I do over indulge:o I can understand your friends viewpoint that there is nothing special in Spore.

 

[Charlie99]

I am just following in your footsteps albeit 30 years later.

All this talk about "economic boom" in Singapore....... unless you invested in property (eg have more than 1 property) it would have made no difference really. And you could have bought Singapore property while you were in Canada as well.

Canada is a huge country with abundance of natural resources. In an apocalyptic world, nuclear or zombie, Canada would still be the place to go to. No worries about the country disappearing or not surviving, much less sustaining the Canadians.

Immigration wise I do agree there are certain threats from that front, but Canada is not alone in that challenge. However the principles by which the country were founded upon say that we should not discriminate. Canada has lots of space. Hence it can absorb immigrants better. Immigrants do congregate with their kin and form "ghettos". It is human nature.

But because the country is large, as long as we don't venture in their "ghettos" we will not feel it. Yet.

Unlike Singapore where it is so crowded they have to put in law the idea of "integrating" as far as where people can live.

The high tax structure PLUS the estate duties is a great leveler. Helps to reduce that GINI coefficient and income disparity. A country that is truly for all should have a higher tax structure. It is as simple as that. Having said that even within Canada there are different provinces with different ideas about taxation. So there is still a choice. In Singapore there is NO CHOICE.

There is really no argument once you have seen the big picture and tasted the buffet.

I believe that with your intellect, EQ, drive, and philosophy, you will be a shining immigrant model for others to emulate.
I hope you and your family are healthy, happy, content and living the Canadian dream.
I came here with two suitcases and $1,500.00.
Now I have more than two suitcases and may be a few dollars more, but much less than numerous other immigrants.

 

[Charlie99]

There are quite a number of Canucks in this forum eh?

Wonder why the Canada thread in the emigration folder isn't more active? We should get that going again

Professional corporation is a way to work around the tax stuff. I'll be practicing again in 2 months. So I've got these in the works as well.

At the end of the day the problem with Singapore is size. People start off in dorm rooms in university. Then maybe studio apartments. When they get married and have 3 kids why don't they continue to stay in their studio apartment? Size matters. Space matters.

Delighted to read that you will be practising medicine very soon, and also to implement a business entity to be the most tax efficient.
With respect, I believe that the then Ontario govt. sold out the Ontarian taxpayers, because several years ago, in order to avoid a strike and the demands for increases, the Ontario govt. allowed medical doctors and specialists to incorporate, and accordingly "income split" with their family members.

A good friend of mine is benefiting from that, which allowed his income to provide private school education and now university education in the USA for their children.

 

[johnny333]

... no free medical prescriptions (except for senior citizens, up to a certain amount), no free dental care (except those on social assistance), no free education after grade 12, no 2-yer income if an individual is unemployed (not sure how long is the "Employment Insurance" benefits, may be up to one year, but I have never claimed it, and therefore, I am not familiar), no retirement pension (other than Old Age Security, which is about $6,600 a year for those 65 and better).....

If Canadians need help with prescription costs they should look into getting Blue Cross coverage in addition to the provincial health care plan
https://www.ab.bluecross.ca/


In Alberta senior those who are in their 40's can attend the University of Alberta for free. I know this because I met someone who was doing this. I admire the Canadian system because it is not so money minded as the PAP system.

The PAP has decided o keep "our" CPF for another 10 years until we are 65. It's bad enough that we are receiving very low interest rates for our CPF. I definitely think that the CPF is a hidden tax for Sporeans.

 

[AxisOfEvil]

Yes, it is too late! Better migrate now while you can! Its not possible to vote the pap out, because there is only one party!

 

[sirus]

Well, I always believe better late than never.