Inerrancy vs history of the canon - Christians Let's discuss

[sannoh]

Who decided which books belong in the New Testament, and when did that happen?

 

[Patriot]

You might be able to find the answer to your question/s at https://www.gotquestions.org/

 

[sannoh]

You might be able to find the answer to your question/s at https://www.gotquestions.org/

I've already read GotQuestions, but I’d like to hear your own explanation. Who decided which books belong in the New Testament, and when did that happen?

 

[johndoeneo]

You might be able to find the answer to your question/s at https://www.gotquestions.org/

Why did church fathers such as Irenaeus say the Shepard of Hermas is Scripture then?

Irenaeus says "Truly, then, the Scripture declared, which says, "First of all believe that there is one God, who has established all things, and completed them, and having caused that from what had no being, all things should come into existence. He who contains all things, and is Himself contained by no one." [Book 2, First Commandment, of the Shepherd of Hermas]. Rightly also has Malachi said among the prophets: "Is it not one God who hath established us? Have we not all one Father?" (4.20.2. of Adversus Haereses)

 

[Patriot]

I've already read GotQuestions, but I’d like to hear your own explanation. Who decided which books belong in the New Testament, and when did that happen?

I admit that my knowledge is limited and defer to more well researched sources like GotQuestions for the answers.

 

[johndoeneo]

I admit that my knowledge is limited and defer to more well researched sources like GotQuestions for the answers.

If you don't know this don’t know that, then why are you Christian in the first place

 

[sannoh]

I admit that my knowledge is limited and defer to more well researched sources like GotQuestions for the answers.

Fair enough. But then how can you claim the Bible is infallible if we don’t even know who decided its contents or when? Isn’t that important to establish before calling it the perfect word of God?

 

[Patriot]

If you don't know this don’t know that, then why are you Christian in the first place

As I said, my knowledge is limited and I am still learning.

God bless you.

 

[Patriot]

Fair enough. But then how can you claim the Bible is infallible if we don’t even know who decided its contents or when? Isn’t that important to establish before calling it the perfect word of God?

I post below the answer from GotQuestions: why it is important to believe in Bible inerrancy.

 

[Patriot]

Why is it important to believe in biblical inerrancy?​

Answer

We live in a time that tends to shrug its shoulders when confronted with error. Instead of asking, like Pilate, “What is truth?” postmodern man says, “Nothing is truth” or perhaps “There is truth, but we cannot know it.” We’ve grown accustomed to being lied to, and many people seem comfortable with the false notion that the Bible, too, contains errors.

The doctrine of biblical inerrancy is an extremely important one because the truth does matter. This issue reflects on the character of God and is foundational to our understanding of everything the Bible teaches. Here are some reasons why we should absolutely believe in biblical inerrancy:

1. The Bible itself claims to be perfect. “And the words of the Lord are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times” (Psalm 12:6). “The law of the Lord is perfect” (Psalm 19:7). “Every word of God is pure” (Proverbs 30:5 KJV). These claims of purity and perfection are absolute statements. Note that it doesn’t say God’s Word is “mostly” pure or scripture is “nearly” perfect. The Bible argues for complete perfection, leaving no room for “partial perfection” theories.

2. The Bible stands or falls as a whole. If a major newspaper were routinely discovered to contain errors, it would be quickly discredited. It would make no difference to say, “All the errors are confined to page three.” For a paper to be reliable in any of its parts, it must be factual throughout. In the same way, if the Bible is inaccurate when it speaks of geology, why should its theology be trusted? It is either a trustworthy document, or it is not.

3. The Bible is a reflection of its Author. All books are. The Bible was written by God Himself as He worked through human authors in a process called “inspiration.” “All scripture is God-breathed” (2 Timothy 3:16). See also 2 Peter 1:21 and Jeremiah 1:12.

We believe that the God who created the universe is capable of writing a book. And the God who is perfect is capable of writing a perfect book. The issue is not simply “Does the Bible have a mistake?” but “Can God make a mistake?” If the Bible contains factual errors, then God is not omniscient and is capable of making errors Himself. If the Bible contains misinformation, then God is not truthful but is instead a liar. If the Bible contains contradictions, then God is the author of confusion. In other words, if biblical inerrancy is not true, then God is not God.

4. The Bible judges us, not vice versa. “For the word of God...judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart” (Hebrews 4:12). Notice the relationship between “the heart” and “the Word.” The Word examines; the heart is being examined. To discount parts of the Word for any reason is to reverse this process. We become the examiners, and the Word must submit to our “superior insight.” Yet God says, “But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?” (Romans 9:20).

5. The Bible’s message must be taken as a whole. It is not a mixture of doctrine that we are free to select from. Many people like the verses that say God loves them, but they dislike the verses that say God will judge sinners. But we simply cannot pick and choose what we like about the Bible and throw the rest away. If the Bible is wrong about hell, for example, then who is to say it is right about heaven—or about anything else? If the Bible cannot get the details right about creation, then maybe the details about salvation cannot be trusted either. If the story of Jonah is a myth, then perhaps so is the story of Jesus. On the contrary, God has said what He has said, and the Bible presents us a full picture of who God is. “Your word, O Lord, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens” (Psalm 119:89).

6. The Bible is our only rule for faith and practice. If it is not reliable, then on what do we base our beliefs? Jesus asks for our trust, and that includes trust in what He says in His Word. John 6:67-69 is a beautiful passage. Jesus had just witnessed the departure of many who had claimed to follow Him. Then He turns to the twelve apostles and asks, “You do not want to leave too, do you?” At this, Peter speaks for the rest when he says, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” May we have the same trust in the Lord and in His words of life.

None of what we have presented here should be taken as a rejection of true scholarship. Biblical inerrancy does not mean that we are to stop using our minds or accept what the Bible says blindly. We are commanded to study the Word (2 Timothy 2:15), and those who search it out are commended (Acts 17:11). Also, we recognize that there are difficult passages in the Bible, as well as sincere disagreements over interpretation. Our goal is to approach Scripture reverently and prayerfully, and when we find something we do not understand, we pray harder, study more, and—if the answer still eludes us—humbly acknowledge our own limitations in the face of the perfect Word of God.

For Further Study​

The Big Book of Bible Difficulties by Geisler & Howe

More insights from your Bible study - Get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free!

 

[Patriot]

 

[johndoeneo]

As I said, my knowledge is limited and I am still learning.

God bless you.

Ok. In that case, that's fine. Why are you not muslim?

 

[sannoh]

Why is it important to believe in biblical inerrancy?​

Answer

We live in a time that tends to shrug its shoulders when confronted with error. Instead of asking, like Pilate, “What is truth?” postmodern man says, “Nothing is truth” or perhaps “There is truth, but we cannot know it.” We’ve grown accustomed to being lied to, and many people seem comfortable with the false notion that the Bible, too, contains errors.

The doctrine of biblical inerrancy is an extremely important one because the truth does matter. This issue reflects on the character of God and is foundational to our understanding of everything the Bible teaches. Here are some reasons why we should absolutely believe in biblical inerrancy:

1. The Bible itself claims to be perfect. “And the words of the Lord are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times” (Psalm 12:6). “The law of the Lord is perfect” (Psalm 19:7). “Every word of God is pure” (Proverbs 30:5 KJV). These claims of purity and perfection are absolute statements. Note that it doesn’t say God’s Word is “mostly” pure or scripture is “nearly” perfect. The Bible argues for complete perfection, leaving no room for “partial perfection” theories.

2. The Bible stands or falls as a whole. If a major newspaper were routinely discovered to contain errors, it would be quickly discredited. It would make no difference to say, “All the errors are confined to page three.” For a paper to be reliable in any of its parts, it must be factual throughout. In the same way, if the Bible is inaccurate when it speaks of geology, why should its theology be trusted? It is either a trustworthy document, or it is not.

3. The Bible is a reflection of its Author. All books are. The Bible was written by God Himself as He worked through human authors in a process called “inspiration.” “All scripture is God-breathed” (2 Timothy 3:16). See also 2 Peter 1:21 and Jeremiah 1:12.

We believe that the God who created the universe is capable of writing a book. And the God who is perfect is capable of writing a perfect book. The issue is not simply “Does the Bible have a mistake?” but “Can God make a mistake?” If the Bible contains factual errors, then God is not omniscient and is capable of making errors Himself. If the Bible contains misinformation, then God is not truthful but is instead a liar. If the Bible contains contradictions, then God is the author of confusion. In other words, if biblical inerrancy is not true, then God is not God.

4. The Bible judges us, not vice versa. “For the word of God...judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart” (Hebrews 4:12). Notice the relationship between “the heart” and “the Word.” The Word examines; the heart is being examined. To discount parts of the Word for any reason is to reverse this process. We become the examiners, and the Word must submit to our “superior insight.” Yet God says, “But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?” (Romans 9:20).

5. The Bible’s message must be taken as a whole. It is not a mixture of doctrine that we are free to select from. Many people like the verses that say God loves them, but they dislike the verses that say God will judge sinners. But we simply cannot pick and choose what we like about the Bible and throw the rest away. If the Bible is wrong about hell, for example, then who is to say it is right about heaven—or about anything else? If the Bible cannot get the details right about creation, then maybe the details about salvation cannot be trusted either. If the story of Jonah is a myth, then perhaps so is the story of Jesus. On the contrary, God has said what He has said, and the Bible presents us a full picture of who God is. “Your word, O Lord, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens” (Psalm 119:89).

6. The Bible is our only rule for faith and practice. If it is not reliable, then on what do we base our beliefs? Jesus asks for our trust, and that includes trust in what He says in His Word. John 6:67-69 is a beautiful passage. Jesus had just witnessed the departure of many who had claimed to follow Him. Then He turns to the twelve apostles and asks, “You do not want to leave too, do you?” At this, Peter speaks for the rest when he says, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” May we have the same trust in the Lord and in His words of life.

None of what we have presented here should be taken as a rejection of true scholarship. Biblical inerrancy does not mean that we are to stop using our minds or accept what the Bible says blindly. We are commanded to study the Word (2 Timothy 2:15), and those who search it out are commended (Acts 17:11). Also, we recognize that there are difficult passages in the Bible, as well as sincere disagreements over interpretation. Our goal is to approach Scripture reverently and prayerfully, and when we find something we do not understand, we pray harder, study more, and—if the answer still eludes us—humbly acknowledge our own limitations in the face of the perfect Word of God.

For Further Study​

The Big Book of Bible Difficulties by Geisler & Howe
More insights from your Bible study - Get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free!

I appreciate your sharing the GotQuestions explanation but it actually raises three important problems that I’d like your view on:

GotQuestions basically says, “The Bible is perfect and must be taken as a whole.”

But Christians don’t agree on what “the whole” is:

• Protestants → 66 books
• Catholics → 73 books
• Orthodox → 76+ books
• Ethiopian Church → 81 books
  If God inspired a perfect Bible, why didn’t He give all Christians the same set of books? Which canon is the truly “inerrant” one?
  

GotQuestions says, “God’s Word is flawless and pure.”

But modern scholarship including many Christian scholars agrees that Mark 16:9–20 and John 7:53–8:11 were later additions not found in the earliest manuscripts. If God’s Word was transmitted perfectly, how do we explain entire passages being added centuries later?

GotQuestions cites 2 Timothy 3:16, “All Scripture is God-breathed.”

But when Paul wrote that, the New Testament didn’t exist. The 27-book NT canon only became official in the 4th century, after long debates and church councils. If Scripture was “perfect and complete” from the start, why did it take 300+ years for Christians to agree on which books belong in it?

Before we can call the Bible inerrant, shouldn’t we first resolve these three issues? Otherwise, we’d be assuming the conclusion before examining the evidence.

 

[Patriot]

Ok. In that case, that's fine. Why are you not muslim?

The short answer is that I believe in Jesus Christ and not Mohamed.

 

[Patriot]

I appreciate your sharing the GotQuestions explanation but it actually raises three important problems that I’d like your view on:

GotQuestions basically says, “The Bible is perfect and must be taken as a whole.”

But Christians don’t agree on what “the whole” is:

• Protestants → 66 books
• Catholics → 73 books
• Orthodox → 76+ books
• Ethiopian Church → 81 books
  If God inspired a perfect Bible, why didn’t He give all Christians the same set of books? Which canon is the truly “inerrant” one?

GotQuestions says, “God’s Word is flawless and pure.”

But modern scholarship including many Christian scholars agrees that Mark 16:9–20 and John 7:53–8:11 were later additions not found in the earliest manuscripts. If God’s Word was transmitted perfectly, how do we explain entire passages being added centuries later?

GotQuestions cites 2 Timothy 3:16, “All Scripture is God-breathed.”

But when Paul wrote that, the New Testament didn’t exist. The 27-book NT canon only became official in the 4th century, after long debates and church councils. If Scripture was “perfect and complete” from the start, why did it take 300+ years for Christians to agree on which books belong in it?

Before we can call the Bible inerrant, shouldn’t we first resolve these three issues? Otherwise, we’d be assuming the conclusion before examining the evidence.

As I said, my knowledge is limited and I am still learning.

 

[johndoeneo]

The short answer is that I believe in Jesus Christ and not Mohamed.

Yes I understand that. A Hindu believe in lord Krishna. But it doesn't answer the question though. What makes you believe in Christianity?

 

[Patriot]

Yes I understand that. A Hindu believe in lord Krishna. But it doesn't answer the question though. What makes you believe in Christianity?

As I said, I believe what Jesus Christ said and not what Mohamed or Krishna said. Simple as that.

 

[johndoeneo]

As I said, I believe what Jesus Christ said and not what Mohamed or Krishna said. Simple as that.

Ok let me ask you this and please be honest. Have you ever made an error in your life before?

 

[Patriot]

What is a Christian?​

A dictionary definition of a Christian would be something similar to “a person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ or in the religion based on the teachings of Jesus.” While this is a good starting point, like many dictionary definitions, it falls somewhat short of really communicating the biblical truth of what it means to be a Christian. The word “Christian” is used three times in the New Testament (Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16). Followers of Jesus Christ were first called “Christians” in Antioch (Acts 11:26) because their behavior, activity, and speech were like Christ. The word “Christian” literally means, “belonging to the party of Christ” or a “follower of Christ.”

Unfortunately over time, the word “Christian” has lost a great deal of its significance and is often used of someone who is religious or has high moral values but who may or may not be a true follower of Jesus Christ. Many people who do not believe and trust in Jesus Christ consider themselves Christians simply because they go to church or they live in a “Christian” nation. But going to church, serving those less fortunate than you, or being a good person does not make you a Christian. Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than going to a garage makes you an automobile. Being a member of a church, attending services regularly, and giving to the work of the church does not make you a Christian.

The Bible teaches that the good works we do cannot make us acceptable to God. Titus 3:5 says, “He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.” So, a Christian is someone who has been born again by God (John 3:3; John 3:7; 1 Peter 1:23) and has put faith and trust in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8 tells us that it is “…by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.”

A true Christian is a person who has put faith and trust in the person and work of Jesus Christ, including His death on the cross as payment for sins and His resurrection on the third day. John 1:12 tells us, “Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.” The mark of a true Christian is love for others and obedience to God’s Word (1 John 2:4, 10). A true Christian is indeed a child of God, a part of God’s true family, and one who has been given new life in Jesus Christ.

Have you made a decision for Christ because of what you have read here? If so, please click on the “I trusted in Christ as Savior today” button below.

If you have any questions, please use the question form on our Bible Questions Answered page.

​

 

[sannoh]

As I said, my knowledge is limited and I am still learning.

I respect your honesty that’s admirable. But I hope you see why these questions are important. If the Bible is claimed to be the inerrant Word of God, yet:

• Christians disagree on which books belong in it,
• early manuscripts show later additions and textual changes, and
• it took 300+ years for the canon to even be finalized,

then wouldn’t it make sense to first study the historical process before assuming perfection? Faith is one thing, but history is another. If God truly gave a perfect book, the evidence should support that claim consistently across all manuscripts, canons, and traditions. That’s why I think understanding the history is essential before making absolute statements about inerrancy.