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Govt says they never plan for 10m, but past reports show otherwise

zeddy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Even if backed by concrete facts provided by the state media , the Oppos are always being accused of spreading lies and falsehoods by the PAP.... Vivian kena checkmate by Dr Chee last night in this 10 million population issue... And the PAP will cry father mother and rake up the past about Dr Chee.
 

Confuseous

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Last year Heng Swee Keat’s office got in touch because it objected to a published line of mine: “With Singapore’s prime-minister-in-waiting eager to again double the city’s population to ten million…”

I had based this comment off a Straits Times article that reported:

“Singapore’s population density is not excessive, he [HSK] said, noting that other cities are a lot more crowded in terms of liveable space. He cited former chief planner Liu Thai Ker, who said in 2014 that Singapore should plan for 10 million people for it to remain sustainable in the long term.”

This was my thinking. If you ask somebody a question, and they cite somebody else as an answer, a reasonable person would conclude that HSK concurs with Liu.

It’s like if you ask me what my favourite TV series this year is and instead of giving you a direct answer, I say: “Well critics consider Crash Landing on You to be the best.”

No. HSK’s office disagreed. The had also shared the official transcript with me (bottom of this post). After reviewing the transcript, I concurred with HSK’s office. Indeed, my original formulation was factually wrong. HSK never said he was “eager”.

My mistake. Correct.

So I changed my statement to: “With Singapore’s prime-minister-in-waiting receptive to plans that would double the city’s population to ten million”.

Again No. HSK’s office disagreed.

So I changed my statement to:

“In 2014 Singapore’s former chief planner suggested an ideal population of ten million. And earlier this year Singapore’s prime-minister-in-waiting cited this proposal in response to a question on immigration.”

Again No. HSK’s office disagreed.

I also asked his office: can HSK just confirm what his target population size is?

This would just save everybody a whole lot of time, honestly, and moreover, it is something Singaporeans deserve to know.

Again No.

Importantly, do note that I have no issues with HSK’s office requests, with me having to make the corrections. I appreciate the conversation with his office. (And, separately, he is by far my favourite of the 4G leaders, flaws notwithstanding.)

I am just sharing all this simply to lay out the facts here so readers can understand the sometimes convoluted news and information flows that exist in Singapore.

HSK made a statement at a student forum. The Straits Times reported it succinctly, as a newspaper must do. Readers like me then drew conclusions from ST’s reporting, as is fair to do.

And now, because of last night’s political debate, the question of fact versus falsehood has again emerged, honest discourse undermined because of imprecise answers (from him) and imprecise assumptions (from us).

So, I kindly again call on HSK to clarify what immigration rate he is targeting for Singapore. Voters deserve to know.

***

Relevant aside: You, as a thinking citizen, can now see how the government’s messaging flip-flops to suit the needs of the day. Just over a year ago, HSK was saying that Singapore’s population density is not excessive and that other cities are a lot more crowded. Why? To open up your mind to population growth.

Fast forward a year. The entire government apparatus, Chan Heng Chee included, is now selling you the message that Singapore is the most densely populated country on earth bar Monaco. Why? They want to deflect blame for the COVID-19 mess.

Classic PAP tactic: define Singapore as a city when it suits; and a country when it doesn’t.

You as voter can be sure of one thing: statistics and messaging will be marshalled and massaged to sell you an idea.

The obvious retort would be: that’s what politicians everywhere do.

And my response to that would be: fine. You’re right.

Then just admit that the politics you practise is the same as everywhere else. The Singapore exceptionalism is gone. And once you admit that, we can review a whole bunch of things, starting with your astronomical salaries.

https://sudhirtv.com/2020/07/02/wha...rgeting-for-singapore-voters-deserve-to-know/
 

laksaboy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Even if backed by concrete facts provided by the state media , the Oppos are always being accused of spreading lies and falsehoods by the PAP.... Vivian kena checkmate by Dr Chee last night in this 10 million population issue... And the PAP will cry father mother and rake up the past about Dr Chee.

Welcome to the totalitarian shithole, where the media is heavily biased and totally controlled. The so-called 'debate' yesterday was a farce... nothing like what happens in civilized countries. :wink:

We're just one Great Firewall short of morphing into China, and one fucked economy short of morphing into North Korea.
 

laksaboy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Soon Juan made Vivian tulan because he brought up the YOG overblown budget during the debate

I think the Youth Olympic Park has been demolished or at least greatly reduced in size to widen the walkway to the riverfront. It's right next to the Helix bridge.
 

A Singaporean

Alfrescian
Loyal
For years the PAP never came out to clarify the 10 million target. Suddenly with election next week they quickly make a U turn. Can you trust the PAPig? They will fuck u again after the election.
 

knnb40

Alfrescian
Loyal
kiechiew say no need wear mask because WHO state that
DPM did not say 10-mil, its Liu Thai Ker personal view....

so what million dollar MIW do ?

none of them man enough like Mr. LKY and his team......

1970 - To Hong Kong businessman Stanley Ho's casino proposal in 1970, Mr LKY had said "no, not over my dead body".
2015- But I have had to change my attitude to casinos in Singapore when it is part of an integrated resort...

Mr. LKY openly admit he has to change his view (anyway don;t think he want to rebuts his son LSL
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
Even if backed by concrete facts provided by the state media , the Oppos are always being accused of spreading lies and falsehoods by the PAP.... Vivian kena checkmate by Dr Chee last night in this 10 million population issue... And the PAP will cry father mother and rake up the past about Dr Chee.
Chee did manage to cleverly slip in a past fault which Vivian has never properly accounted for ie the whopping $400-500m costs for that useless youth Olympic games that no can remember
 

zeddy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Chee did manage to cleverly slip in a past fault which Vivian has never properly accounted for ie the whopping $400-500m costs for that useless youth Olympic games that no can remember
Agree with you and Rogue Trader... Can see Vivian face changed and on the defensive after Dr Chee mentioned about the overblown Youth Olympics.... Dr Chee didn't have the opportunity to question Viviana about this issue in Parliament since he is not an MP... But last night he gave Vivian a good black eye witnessed live by millions on TV... :biggrin:
 

Rogue Trader

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Up until last year Heng sk still brought up the 10m population plan during a talk with NTU students. Good bro Yeoh lam keong called him out for it ... but no reply from Pap

20200702_132424.jpg


http://theindependent.sg/ex-gic-chi...-for-citing-outdated-10m-population-argument/
 

Confuseous

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Agree with you and Rogue Trader... Can see Vivian face changed and on the defensive after Dr Chee mentioned about the overblown Youth Olympics.... Dr Chee didn't have the opportunity to question Viviana about this issue in Parliament since he is not an MP... But last night he gave Vivian a good black eye witnessed live by millions on TV... :biggrin:

When VB said that CSJ was taking a "cheap shot" we know that it really got under VB's skin.
His excuse for the nearly 5x overbudget for the YOG was incredible:

THAT IT HAD NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE, THE YOG - then all the more reason for working out the costs
even in greater detail, with dozens of people working on the initial proposal. Would he have been willing
to pay a contractor whose final cost estimate half way through a project, that it was going to cost 5 times
more?
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
pappies will say you cite reports out of context. they will also say there are contingency plans and there are real plans. they will also say some plans are simply proposals, opinions, and recommendations, and they will never materialize. they will also say some deserving plans will be debated within and outside the party to get max feedback, and if their pros outweigh the cons, they will formalize them for porlumparleement. if not tabled, debated, decided, and agreed to among the highest inner circle leeders, it’s not a (formal) plan (as you’re not privy to that godly circle). and thus you state a falsehood. heads they win tails you lose. just understand that in sg, they are divine and can bend laws of physics to change and define the universe. remember that polling station ruling? if a pappie is already within the polling station heshe is not within the forbidden radius of the polling station. that one deserves the nobel prize. very profound.
PAP travel to the polling station through the fourth dimension! :laugh:
 

LordElrond

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
I think the Youth Olympic Park has been demolished or at least greatly reduced in size to widen the walkway to the riverfront. It's right next to the Helix bridge.
Looks like the Road Safety Park at East Coast now?
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
Last year Heng Swee Keat’s office got in touch because it objected to a published line of mine: “With Singapore’s prime-minister-in-waiting eager to again double the city’s population to ten million…”

I had based this comment off a Straits Times article that reported:

“Singapore’s population density is not excessive, he [HSK] said, noting that other cities are a lot more crowded in terms of liveable space. He cited former chief planner Liu Thai Ker, who said in 2014 that Singapore should plan for 10 million people for it to remain sustainable in the long term.”

This was my thinking. If you ask somebody a question, and they cite somebody else as an answer, a reasonable person would conclude that HSK concurs with Liu.

It’s like if you ask me what my favourite TV series this year is and instead of giving you a direct answer, I say: “Well critics consider Crash Landing on You to be the best.”

No. HSK’s office disagreed. The had also shared the official transcript with me (bottom of this post). After reviewing the transcript, I concurred with HSK’s office. Indeed, my original formulation was factually wrong. HSK never said he was “eager”.

My mistake. Correct.

So I changed my statement to: “With Singapore’s prime-minister-in-waiting receptive to plans that would double the city’s population to ten million”.

Again No. HSK’s office disagreed.

So I changed my statement to:

“In 2014 Singapore’s former chief planner suggested an ideal population of ten million. And earlier this year Singapore’s prime-minister-in-waiting cited this proposal in response to a question on immigration.”

Again No. HSK’s office disagreed.

I also asked his office: can HSK just confirm what his target population size is?

This would just save everybody a whole lot of time, honestly, and moreover, it is something Singaporeans deserve to know.

Again No.

Importantly, do note that I have no issues with HSK’s office requests, with me having to make the corrections. I appreciate the conversation with his office. (And, separately, he is by far my favourite of the 4G leaders, flaws notwithstanding.)

I am just sharing all this simply to lay out the facts here so readers can understand the sometimes convoluted news and information flows that exist in Singapore.

HSK made a statement at a student forum. The Straits Times reported it succinctly, as a newspaper must do. Readers like me then drew conclusions from ST’s reporting, as is fair to do.

And now, because of last night’s political debate, the question of fact versus falsehood has again emerged, honest discourse undermined because of imprecise answers (from him) and imprecise assumptions (from us).

So, I kindly again call on HSK to clarify what immigration rate he is targeting for Singapore. Voters deserve to know.

***

Relevant aside: You, as a thinking citizen, can now see how the government’s messaging flip-flops to suit the needs of the day. Just over a year ago, HSK was saying that Singapore’s population density is not excessive and that other cities are a lot more crowded. Why? To open up your mind to population growth.

Fast forward a year. The entire government apparatus, Chan Heng Chee included, is now selling you the message that Singapore is the most densely populated country on earth bar Monaco. Why? They want to deflect blame for the COVID-19 mess.

Classic PAP tactic: define Singapore as a city when it suits; and a country when it doesn’t.

You as voter can be sure of one thing: statistics and messaging will be marshalled and massaged to sell you an idea.

The obvious retort would be: that’s what politicians everywhere do.

And my response to that would be: fine. You’re right.


Then just admit that the politics you practise is the same as everywhere else. The Singapore exceptionalism is gone. And once you admit that, we can review a whole bunch of things, starting with your astronomical salaries.

https://sudhirtv.com/2020/07/02/wha...rgeting-for-singapore-voters-deserve-to-know/
Insolent fool. How dare you question what our lord Loong pay his trusted lieutenants? :mad:
 

LordElrond

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
The biggest fear of the PAP is the population cum real estate fueled bubble economy thanks to their policies
 
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