Crumbling of Singapore?

[TracyTan866]

Many people believe it is. But personally, I'm not the superstitious type. I believe what's happening to S'pore is a result of PAP's ill-conceived policies and practices that bring impressive short-term results, particularly in generating revenue for the govt, but over the middle and long-term, their follies in coming with such policies are beginning to show or rather have shown. The fault lines are appearing all over the place, be it the floods, the MRT incidents, the high cost of public housing, the strain on public infrastructures due to uncontrolled influx of foreign labour, to just to name a few. In any policies made, whether by a govt or organisation, the short-term results are always positive. And this is where PAP had created the myth that they had turn S'pore to be an incomparable success story. But now that the policies are into the middle-erm, signs are all there that they are failing at the same time bringing much sufferings to the people. You would shudder to think over the long-term how much more damage these policies can do if the PAP doesn't genuinely reverses its mindsets - especially the one on growing its reserves at all cost.

I agree with you fully...hence my first thread didnt say that SG is a crumbled nation...it will come if the policies are not rectified.

Many Singaporeans and foreigners, like LeongSam, are taken in by what they see now..They lack foresight...Looking at the present pap policies, most can see that the demise of Sg will come...it is just a matter of when

 

[Leongsam]

shall we debate on your claims?

I don't really see the point in endless debate. Words can only do so much. Just look around you. Marina Bay, Orchard Road, Holland Village, all the Satellite towns, the new motorways, the plans to extend the MRT network, the increasingly cosmopolitan citizenry, the diversified and vibrant economy and many other wonderful achievements point to a forward looking nation which has yet to reach its peak.

The recent MRT breakdown is but a minor setback. Look at what the govt is doing for the country over the next few years :

http://www.lta.gov.sg/projects/proj_maps_rail_l.htm

I've never seen a country develop such a comprehensive rail system in such a short period of time. Singaporeans are really lucky.

It is also open and transparent with details of the various projects available at http://www.lta.gov.sg/projects/index_proj_maprail.htm

 

[TracyTan866]

I don't really see the point in endless debate. l]

Ok..whatever suits you...

 

[Leongsam]

There's a comprehensive list in wiki too. A "crumbling" nation? I certainly don't think so. Many listed have been completed on schedule. The plans for the future are well underway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_developments_in_Singapore

 

[Leongsam]

The skyline of a "crumbling" city?

​

 

[TracyTan866]

to be fair, Sam is right to say it is better compared to what he has seen.


There ought to be some benchmarking. Else, you would think zero is the lowest.

.

if have to benchmark, shdnt we benchmark with what previous pap leaders have achieved? isnt that more relevant than to arbitrarily benchmark with My, Indoneisa or NZ or aus

 

[TracyTan866]

.

Now, i agree with you that SAF ought to pay market rates for NS recruits...but then, it still won't solve the problem. The general consensus against NS is not because of pay. It is because of the idea of Singaporeans sacrificing their youth to protect a bunch of potentially ungrateful PRs / FTs that have the option & luxury of taking a hike out in times of troubles.

as i said, abolition is best. but if that's not possible, paying market rate goes along way to help mitigate the onerous chore of NS

 

[Nice-Gook]

I've never seen a country develop such a comprehensive rail system in such a short period of time. Singaporeans are really lucky.

Sam,mind telling me how many countries you had seen?....Let me qualify that by saying seeing a country is not sitting in a hotel and commenting.

 

[Leongsam]

Ok..whatever suits you...

It's not to suit me. You can continue to air your "opinions" while I, in turn, will continue to post FACTS in the form of cold hard information about the infrastructure that Singapore is building to make the place even better.

If there are any errors in my information eg fake photos of infrastructure that doesn't actually exist or was photoshopped into the images, please point it out to me. I have no problems with you exposing any lies and I'm sure the rest here would appreciate it too.

 

[TracyTan866]

The skyline of a "crumbling" city?

View attachment 3236
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why not?

City of Pompeii
Sodom
Gomorrah

It's not now..It's the future..

Take heed!!

 

[freedalas]

I agree with you fully...hence my first thread didnt say that SG is a crumbled nation...it will come if the policies are not rectified.

Many Singaporeans and foreigners, like LeongSam, are taken in by what they see now..They lack foresight...Looking at the present pap policies, most can see that the demise of Sg will come...it is just a matter of when

Just to add to the good points you'd made. Sadly there is still a substantial number of people out there (including this forum host) who would love to compare to what's happening in our countries. This latest MRT incident is a case in point. They cited that elsewhere in this world trains are being disrupted all the time. It's such a mindset that has lured PAP into complacency, because whatever happens, there are people who would protect them by saying we are indeed very fortunate already, just look at what's happening in this or that country. The problems we faced must be looked at in our context. Never mind what's happening elsewhere, it has no relevance. To illustrate how ridiculous such a comparison can be, say the mobile phone network has been down for 5 hours, disrupting businesses and social contacts throughout the island, someone will be quick enough to say we already very blessed to have a mobile phone network to start with because in many countries, people have to walk for miles to get to a public phone booth!!!

In any case, the latest MRT incidents is not just about train services being disrupted. If it was just that, commuters would not have complain so much. It was the way SMRT and LTA handled the situation, particularly when it was close to an emergency scenario with people trapped in the dark and without ventilation. Those who cited the frequencies of train disruption in other countries did not tell us how their rail operator and transport authorities handled and managed the situations over there, didn't they?

 

[TracyTan866]

Sam,mind telling me how many countries you had seen?....Let me qualify that by saying seeing a country is not sitting in a hotel and commenting.

Good point..

 

[red amoeba]

if have to benchmark, shdnt we benchmark with what previous pap leaders have achieved? isnt that more relevant than to arbitrarily benchmark with My, Indoneisa or NZ or aus

again, different context. Probably, you can take snap shots at different times and compare, but still it have to be compared to the external world. if we compare say, LHL vs GCT vs LKY - what is the basis of comparison? How many km of MRT lines or how many airplanes are landing at Changi?

Or perhaps if we ask - are people happier today under LHL vs GCT vs LKY?

PAP likes doing that - keeping highlighting what they have done - to the post-war babies, it stuck a chord because they have gone through those turbulent times. For the 80s, 90s..00s, these meant nothing.

I am not advocating bench-marking with Afghanistan or third-world countries but probably with countries of similar GDP - eg: USA, Western Europe.

For example, when GCT said swiss standard of living 1984, he is benchmarking it and set it as a target. Sadly, we did not achieve it due to many reasons. We ought not say, ok, we are still living better than Somalia and therefore we pat our back and say we do well.

 

[TracyTan866]

Just to add to the good points you'd made. Sadly there is still a substantial number of people out there (including this forum host) who would love to compare to what's happening in our countries. This latest MRT incident is a case in point. They cited that elsewhere in this world trains are being disrupted all the time. It's such a mindset that has lured PAP into complacency, because whatever happens, there are people who would protect them by saying we are indeed very fortunate already, just look at what's happening in this or that country. The problems we faced must be looked at in our context. Never mind what's happening elsewhere, it has no relevance. To illustrate how ridiculous such a comparison can be, say the mobile phone network has been down for 5 hours, disrupting businesses and social contacts throughout the island, someone will be quick enough to say we already very blessed to have a mobile phone network to start with because in many countries, people have to walk for miles to get to a public phone booth!!!

In any case, the latest MRT incidents is not just about train services being disrupted. If it was just that, commuters would not have complain so much. It was the way SMRT and LTA handled the situation, particularly when it was close to an emergency scenario with people trapped in the dark and without ventilation. Those who cited the frequencies of train disruption in other countries did not tell us how their rail operator and transport authorities handled and managed the situations over there, didn't they?

Yes, I agree with you.

Sam, like some here, dont seem to understand my point that what the pap is doing does not augur well...there are many symptoms showing that we are on the wrong track.

The MRT saga is a good lesson. Did SMRT take profit maximisation as a key performance indicator and compromised maintenance schedules, etc...causing premature wear amd tear and breakdowns? Did the pap take GDP as aKPI and compromised the future well being of SG and Singaporeans?

One incident of MRT breakdwon is not a problem...but if that was the result of poor mgmt practices, more severe damage will occur.

It seems that we are on the same track...

 

[TracyTan866]

It's not to suit me. You can continue to air your "opinions" while I, in turn, will continue to post FACTS in the form of cold hard information about the infrastructure that Singapore is building to make the place even better.

If there are any errors in my information eg fake photos of infrastructure that doesn't actually exist or was photoshopped into the images, please point it out to me. I have no problems with you exposing any lies and I'm sure the rest here would appreciate it too.

no need to argue...go read my first posting on this thread

 

[Nice-Gook]

Good point..

You see I had been to some of the goddamned country on this earth...even lived amongst cannibals.But every time I step down Changi airport my stomach churns.even my foreign colleagues avoids passing thru Singapore.

 

[TracyTan866]

It's not to suit me. You can continue to air your "opinions" while I, in turn, will continue to post FACTS in the form of cold hard information about the infrastructure that Singapore is building to make the place even better.

If there are any errors in my information eg fake photos of infrastructure that doesn't actually exist or was photoshopped into the images, please point it out to me. I have no problems with you exposing any lies and I'm sure the rest here would appreciate it too.

Your pics are irrelevant to this thread and what I am talking abt ..I am talking abt the "crumbling of SG"..I didnt say a "crumbled Singapore". and I have told you abt the great Cities of Pompeii, Sodom, Gomorrah.

Will SG end up like them?

and you have the audacity to talk abt debating skills? out of point totally

 

[red amoeba]

Yes, I agree with you.

Sam, like some here, dont seem to understand my point that what the pap is doing does not augur well...there are many symptoms showing that we are on the wrong track.

The MRT saga is a good lesson. Did SMRT take profit maximisation as a key performance indicator and compromised maintenance schedules, etc...causing premature wear amd tear and breakdowns? Did the pap take GDP as aKPI and compromised the future well being of SG and Singaporeans?

One incident of MRT breakdwon is not a problem...but if that was the result of poor mgmt practices, more severe damage will occur.

It seems that we are on the same track...

the drift that i agree with you being : PAP treats everyone here, citizens, PRs, FTs, as mere digits in the entire economic equation which they said hinges on the very foundation of our existence.

short of saying - if Singapore don't make money, we are kaput.

 

[Leongsam]

Sam,mind telling me how many countries you had seen?....Let me qualify that by saying seeing a country is not sitting in a hotel and commenting.

I could claim anything here but just let me say that I've railways have always been high on my list of interests and I've done lot's of reading regarding the history of the trains.

Nothing in my collection of articles and books documents the building of a mass rapid transport system as comprehensive as the one in Singapore in a short space of 30 years.

If there is one, please let me know. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[red amoeba]

I could claim anything here but just let me say that I've railways have always been high on my list of interests and I've done lot's of reading regarding the history of the trains.

Nothing in my collection of articles and books documents the building of a mass rapid transport system as comprehensive as the one in Singapore in a short space of 30 years.

If there is one, please let me know. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

firstly, i won't say its comprehensive. definitely there are areas for improvements.

if you have $$ you can definitely make things happen like Dubai.

Singapore being more compact & small makes it look comprehensive.

again, its nothing wrong for SMRT to branch out to lease shop space and office space - all other rail operators are doing that. In fact , enterprises are doing all sorts of funny things beyond their basic scope of business. The point I feel is that (like in this case of SMRT), while you keep an eye on pursuing income returns, you must not forget your basic purpose and still allocate sufficient resources and attention to it- to achieve a balance.