Cause of many NSF deaths: SAF ignored soldiers' medical reports

[Ramseth]

Actually, through the army and police enlistment process, following the instruction and do as required through the training and service period, it can only make one fitter.

 

[Leongsam]

You were young all right. Took all that risk when the future was waiting for you to become rich and have the time to start a forum. I've seen too many the likes of you in those days. Nothing happened because we were tougher than the generation of today. Sniffing early in the morning with all those sinus problems.!

There was nothing I dished out that I didn't have to go through myself before I was commissioned. I did my 5km in FBO with a fever and nose that was running like there was no tomorrow. Reporting sick would have meant jeopardizing a chance for the "Best in PT" award.

The problem nowadays is damnes sinkies are all a bunch of mummy's boys. Even a boyscout camp would be too tough for them.

 

[Kohliantye]

I was a 2LT at the time. However, because of my appointment, I was frequently acting OC whenever my OC was away on course or on leave.

The MO was a CPT but he and I were friends long before we were enlisted. We were both from the same elite school and played squash together regularly.

He was an excellent doctor and would not have declared a soldier to be malingering if there really was something wrong with him. The fact of the matter was that these damned privates really were malingerers.
They'd come up with cock and bull imaginary symptoms like "dizzyness" or "diarrhea" (which could be disproved with a finger up the arsehole). They'd always report sick when they had guard duty or were rostered for something they didn't want to do.

With another character he used a different trick. This fucking LCP reported sick and complained about the hot sun causing migraine. Guess what.. I rostered him to take care of all the night training for 4 whole months! He was stunned. 2 weeks later, he declared that his migraines had miraculously disappeared.

NS men are all bloody skivers. Never get conned by all their bullshit "illnesses".

Thank you for your explanation.
Please do not have a negative view of NSmen, especially those without any ranks. They are human too.
They have parents and other loved ones too.

The crux of the matter is that the SAF has a responsibility towards the parents of the young men that are enlisted.
Let us not loose sight that among any cohorts there are truly those who are genuinely sick, asthmatic, etc..
It must be remembered that Singaporeans have small families.
These people should be proffessionally weeded out.
We must never allow the death statistics to go up.

 

[Ramseth]

Actually, through the army or police enlistment process, following the instruction and do as required through the training and service period, it can only make one fitter. However, I don't discount possibility of errors or misses during enlistment medical checkups.

 

[Leongsam]

I don't discount possibility of errors or misses during enlistment medical checkups.

There is always error and allowances should be made for the fact that no screening process is 100% accurate.

If sinkies are exempted from shouldering a fair share of the defense burden just because they aren't in perfect physical health (who is? ) , all it means is that others have to take up the slack.

In the Israel, a 2% allowance is made for deaths during training. I propose that in Singapore, the acceptable level be set at 0.5% so as long as there are no more than 5 deaths per 1000 soldiers per year, training processes and methods proceed as usual.

 

[Debonerman]

I propose that in Singapore, the acceptable level be set at 0.5% so as long as there are no more than 5 deaths per 1000 soldiers per year, training processes and methods proceed as usual.

I concur if the above is limited to MIW's children. Live off the people, die for the people!

 

[Ramseth]

In the Israel, a 2% allowance is made for deaths during training. I propose that in Singapore, the acceptable level be set at 0.5% so as long as there are no more than 5 deaths per 1000 soldiers per year, training processes and methods proceed as usual.

Sure, I went through the full nine yards to home run. I have almost more than ten buddies, cousins and brothers who went through it without any problem. Do as required. SAF, RSAF, RSN and SCDF are not so stupid or homicidal to set impossible standards. When one starts to malinger, one's psychological and physical standards go down. That's when the problem comes in. Why not just do it? It's good for you as a man, as a physically fit man who can handle firearms and unarmed combat? When the day comes, say thank you and goodbye. Why harbor such much bitterness? Yes I know, there's the reservist issue, but that's another topic.

 

[rusty]

I propose that in Singapore, the acceptable level be set at 0.5% so as long as there are no more than 5 deaths per 1000 soldiers per year, training processes and methods proceed as usual.

We should be striving for zero percent and not set a figure for certain death.
We are dealing with loved ones not digits.

Tell that to SIA...0.05 % crash per 1,000 flight is also acceptable. Only 10 % of your suggestion used.

 

[Leongsam]

Tell that to SIA...0.05 % crash per 1,000 flight is also acceptable. Only 10 % of your suggestion used.

The airline industry operates according to an "acceptable risk" policy. http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Acceptable_Level_of_Safety

I see no reason why a defense force can't do the same. You can't train an army to kill without being at risk of ending up dead too.

Acceptable Level of Safety

Categories: Safety Management | Enhancing Safety


Description

Absolute safety is generally an unachievable and too expensive goal. Therefore the concept of acceptable safety has been adopted in risk bearing industries, including aviation. The term "acceptable risk" describes an event with a probability of occurrence and consequences acceptable to the society, i.e. the society is willing to take or be subjected to the risk that the event might bring. It is the role of the safety regulatory authorities to translate the society expectations and perceptions into a qualitative or quantitative target level of safety

 

[rusty]

You can't train an army to kill without being at risk of ending up dead too.

There are risks of ending up dead in our everyday lives... crossing the road, sports, working, operating electric appliances at home or riding bicycle without seat.

Many work sites in Singapore are striving for zero accident to prevent injury and death

All the more, vigorous training in the army, safety considerations must be the priority and not just by assigning a percentage for certain deaths.

In the construction and shipyard industries, there are safety watch dogs but not in the army.

 

[chonburifc]

Same advice from a chow keng veteran. NS rank and vocation means nothing to outside world. Maybe no porn lui and kee chew mean something.

Keng all the way till ROD until i get my C2N9. Unfortunately, that is not geng, that is real.

Fuck SAF and the hypocrites that say SAF is good. Like what the CPL greet us: "FUCK YOU! Understand?"

 

[johnny333]

A true Singaporean can't be saying such a thing. You must be an import!

Or a realist who knows where he stands

 

[I_Hate_Pappies]

I was a company 2IC during my NS days. Whenever one of my men reported sick, I would call up the MO and tell him to not to listen to the cock-and-bull stories of these malingerers. The MO was a good friend of mine.

The MO would then put "malingering" on his report and I'd throw the guy in the guardroom. It was really fun to see the look on their faces when what they thought would be a day off work ended up as 10 days in a cell. In fact, it brings tears of mirth to my eyes till this day.

Chee Bye Kia! Whether your man is sick or malingering, it's up to the MO to diagnose and decide. Anyway, this MO friend of yours is an idiot too to follow your ADVICE!:oIo:

 

[Leongsam]

Chee Bye Kia! Whether your man is sick or malingering, it's up to the MO to diagnose and decide.

It's called "collaboration". We worked as a team to nail those lazy, good for nothing bengs who thought they could pull a fast one.

I gave me great pleasure to be able to turn bengs into better citizens. They swore vengeance at the time but when I met some of them a couple of years later in civilian life, they actually thanked me for making them realise the error of their ways.

 

[Zombie]

In the Israel, a 2% allowance is made for deaths during training.

maybe it is allowance for suicide, and "training" is just a cover-up?

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/suicideidf.html

Suicide, number 1 killer in the Israeli army
By Saed Bannoura
From International Middle East Media Center
June 18, 2005

http://www.qassam.ps/news-3092-Israeli_Army_Suicide_Rates_Continues_to_Rise.html

Israeli Army Suicide Rates Continues to Rise
07-07-2010,14:56
Al Qassam website-July 7, 2010- Israeli official sources have declared on Wednesday 7th of July that the number of IOF soldiers who commit suicide is again in the rise after a decline of tens of percentage points during recent years which followed the army's implementation of various programs to fight suicide within its ranks.

 

[keling is shit]

I was a 2LT at the time. However, because of my appointment, I was frequently acting OC whenever my OC was away on course or on leave.

The MO was a CPT but he and I were friends long before we were enlisted. We were both from the same elite school and played squash together regularly.


NS men are all bloody skivers. Don't get conned by all their bullshit "illnesses".

elite school your arse :oIo:

limpei is from non-elite school. :oIo: limpei is also ns officer. whenever my man want to report sick, i will give the go ahead. please lah, no point risking your life for PAP run government. those MIW have sold us out long ago, so why bother?

my motto for NS + ICT is : all the man under my charge report to me in 1 piece, i make sure they go home safely. they are all someone's son, father, grandson etc. i will fight for their welfare and make sure they can book out or have nights-off as much as possible. when on mission, just do the bare minimal. SAF is one big wayang anyway. the SAF regulars will not thank me if i push my man and help these fuckers get their promotion. on the other hand if any mishap happens, these SAF regular fuckers will be the 1st to push the blame to NS men like us. and dont forget the families of the dead soldier will be coming after your blood if anything bad happen.

dont tell my anything about protecting singapore from foreign invasion. PAP already allowed lorry loads of FTs to over-run us without a single bullet fired. Singapore is ALREADY invaded long ago.

 

[Kohliantye]

elite school your arse :oIo:

limpei is from non-elite school. :oIo: limpei is also ns officer. whenever my man want to report sick, i will give the go ahead. please lah, no point risking your life for PAP run government. those MIW have sold us out long ago, so why bother?

my motto for NS + ICT is : all the man under my charge report to me in 1 piece, i make sure they go home safely. they are all someone's son, father, grandson etc. i will fight for their welfare and make sure they can book out or have nights-off as much as possible. when on mission, just do the bare minimal. SAF is one big wayang anyway. the SAF regulars will not thank me if i push my man and help these fuckers get their promotion. on the other hand if any mishap happens, these SAF regular fuckers will be the 1st to push the blame to NS men like us. and dont forget the families of the dead soldier will be coming after your blood if anything bad happen.
dont tell my anything about protecting singapore from foreign invasion. PAP already allowed lorry loads of FTs to over-run us without a single bullet fired. Singapore is ALREADY invaded long ago.

Very well written. I salute you for your empathy, sympathy, care and concern.

These young men are somebody'd dear kids.

They have to be protected.

It is human to do so.

Once again THANK YOU for that stance taken

 

[Cruxx]

elite school your arse :oIo:

limpei is from non-elite school. :oIo: limpei is also ns officer. whenever my man want to report sick, i will give the go ahead. please lah, no point risking your life for PAP run government. those MIW have sold us out long ago, so why bother?

my motto for NS + ICT is : all the man under my charge report to me in 1 piece, i make sure they go home safely. they are all someone's son, father, grandson etc. i will fight for their welfare and make sure they can book out or have nights-off as much as possible. when on mission, just do the bare minimal. SAF is one big wayang anyway. the SAF regulars will not thank me if i push my man and help these fuckers get their promotion. on the other hand if any mishap happens, these SAF regular fuckers will be the 1st to push the blame to NS men like us. and dont forget the families of the dead soldier will be coming after your blood if anything bad happen.

dont tell my anything about protecting singapore from foreign invasion. PAP already allowed lorry loads of FTs to over-run us without a single bullet fired. Singapore is ALREADY invaded long ago.

Upz you

 

[Leongsam]

elite school your arse :oIo:
limpei is from non-elite school. :oIo: limpei is also ns officer. whenever my man want to report sick, i will give the go ahead. please lah, no point risking your life for PAP run government. those MIW have sold us out long ago, so why bother?

You're just jealous because you're not from an elite school.

Being from an elite school, I have many friends in high places and that includes MIW. I'm therefore on their side.

My pet hate is idle bengs. I made it my mission to throw as many of them as possible into the guardroom during my tenure. It gave me great pleasure to see them stuck behind bars.

 

[Kohliantye]

You're just jealous because you're not from an elite school.

Being from an elite school, I have many friends in high places and that includes MIW. I'm therefore on their side.

My pet hate is idle bengs. I made it my mission to throw as many of them as possible into the guardroom during my tenure. It gave me great pleasure to see them stuck behind bars.

Leongsam, what is there to be jealous of people from elite schools. These are schools after all.

Elite school still teaches the same curriculum and not something extra or extra-terrestrial.

Those attending are humans too and not something out of the ordinary.

Just like we from attap-roofed schools, elite schools are the same too.

The students break-wind, defecate and piss just like those from other schools.

What is the point of having friends from "high places"?

What additional perks do you get from people in lofty positions?

What you did during your NS days as a 2nd Lt is indeed extraordinary.

Just hope the punishment you meted out to those NSmen will not be faced by your own loved ones.

You may remember that insane "Tiger Hong" and where he finally landed..