Backside Teo: NSmen DIED is Their OWN Fault!

[makapaaa]

FTrash: AGREED! *hee*hee*

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR>Soldiers' deaths: No foul play or safety lapses

</TR><!-- headline one : end --><!-- Author --><TR><TD class="padlrt8 georgia11 darkgrey bold" colSpan=2>By Maria Almenoar

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Second-Lieutenant Clifton Lam died of heat stroke.

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View more photos

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Recruit Andrew Cheah died of an infection affecting the lungs.

<!-- START OF : div id="storytext"--><!-- more than 4 paragraphs -->DETAILS on how two young servicemen died in June within two days of each other were revealed in Parliament yesterday.
Second-Lieutenant Clifton Lam Jia Hao was found to have died of heat stroke, while an autopsy report found that Recruit Andrew Cheah Wei Siong died of acute pneumonitis, an infection that affects the lungs.
Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean provided these and other details in a reply to Nominated MP Siew Kum Hong, who asked for an update on the inquiries into their deaths.
Second-Lieutenant Lam, 20, a trainee pilot who was posthumously promoted to this rank, collapsed during a three-day jungle course in Brunei. He died later in hospital.
For this particular course, servicemen are required to take care of themselves in the jungle. They receive a safety briefing beforehand. Second-Lieutenant Lam was given four litres of water and tablets to purify stream or river water for drinking.
'The board unfortunately established that Second-Lieutenant Lam may not have hydrated himself during this period of training,' Mr Teo said.
In the case of Recruit Cheah, he fainted during a 2km walk in Pulau Tekong and later died in hospital.
The 20-year-old was undergoing a 15-week basic military training programme meant for mildly obese recruits.
An autopsy found that he had an infection, which typically has symptoms that include cough, phlegm, fever and breathing difficulties.
Recruit Cheah told section mates that he felt breathless but had no other symptoms. An instructor who was with him on the walk asked if he was not feeling well. Recruit Cheah replied that he was just tired.
'In these circumstances, it was difficult for his instructors or platoon mates, or indeed Recruit Cheah himself, to have known that the breathlessness was caused by acute pneumonitis and not simply fatigue,' said Mr Teo.
The instructor allowed him to continue on a walk around the Pulau Tekong camp stadium and did not pull him out as Recruit Cheah was able to converse clearly.
Mr Teo said that in both cases, there were no lapses in the training safety system, negligence or foul play on the part of any personnel. Also, neither case was linked to medical screening.
He assured MPs that the safety of soldiers in training was taken 'very seriously'.
Soldiers are well-prepared for training and strenuous exercises.
They get sufficient rest and follow a proper hydration regime. Medics are on-site, and commanders look out for soldiers who show signs that they are feeling unwell.
Mr Teo also reiterated that all soldiers go through a detailed medical screening process before enlistment.
The two deaths in June led the Ministry of Defence to call an unprecedented three-day suspension of physical and endurance training activities to ensure proper procedures were in place.
Mr Teo also told Mr Siew that investigations into the Sept 30 death of full-time national serviceman Joe Foo Wei Rong, 20, are still ongoing. <!-- end of for each --><!-- Current Ratings : start --><SCRIPT language=javascript> addRatingPortion() </SCRIPT>

 

[hunter]

Mr Teo, Can recruits train in the shade or not? Don't want to get heat stroke

 

[sherrry]

Nowadays we should be more focused on fighting in built-up areas (FIBUA), so it'd make perfect sense to train our soldiers in freezing cold air-conditioned conditions. No more issue of heat stroke, but need to be careful of hypo-thermia instead.

As for the common flu which is life threatening (during physical exersion) and communicable, yet taken too lightly, it's about time they introduce quarantine or ATT-C for flu patients.

Putting the blame on the dead servicemen is as good as shirking responsibilities.

 

[david]

Medics are on-site, and commanders look out for soldiers who show signs that they are feeling unwell.

And yet, every now and then, NS are dying during training

 

[Sideswipe]

In America army, this kind of training fatigue death stuffs probably happen every day - morning, afternoon and evening. we small country make small stones stuffs look like mountains.

It's your life - make your decision for all that it's worth to you - train to be best soldier / chao keng / defer reservist indefinitely / downgrade.

can someone confirm this - If my PC ask me to carry 2 jerry cans to a certain point during IPPT and I have a heart attack, collapsed and die. Later the doctor diagnosed - the weight of the jerry cans somehow cause my blood pressure to shot up, causing the heart attack.

Will I be given a military funeral with the shit flag all over my coffin and the 12 gun salute. IMO, this is no different from a trainee dying from exhaustion during exercise.

 

[tonychat]

Oh gosh, still hanging the article of telling others that sinkie soldiers die without even going to war.

 

[scoobyhoo]

If you were the parent of the dead recruit, what would you feel?

 

[vamjok]

i have direct friends who watch their friend pass away in bmt due to stupid 2.4km. just because he wish to bookout he chong all the way heart attack die on the spot. now don't even need to book in.

fuck ns

 

[Papsmearer]

FTrash: AGREED! *hee*hee*

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR>Soldiers' deaths: No foul play or safety lapses

</TR><!-- headline one : end --><!-- Author --><TR><TD class="padlrt8 georgia11 darkgrey bold" colSpan=2>By Maria Almenoar

</TD></TR><!-- show image if available --><TR vAlign=bottom><TD width=330>

</TD><TD width=10>

</TD><TD vAlign=bottom>

Second-Lieutenant Clifton Lam died of heat stroke.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD>

View more photos

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Recruit Andrew Cheah died of an infection affecting the lungs.

<!-- START OF : div id="storytext"--><!-- more than 4 paragraphs -->DETAILS on how two young servicemen died in June within two days of each other were revealed in Parliament yesterday.
Second-Lieutenant Clifton Lam Jia Hao was found to have died of heat stroke, while an autopsy report found that Recruit Andrew Cheah Wei Siong died of acute pneumonitis, an infection that affects the lungs.
Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean provided these and other details in a reply to Nominated MP Siew Kum Hong, who asked for an update on the inquiries into their deaths.
Second-Lieutenant Lam, 20, a trainee pilot who was posthumously promoted to this rank, collapsed during a three-day jungle course in Brunei. He died later in hospital.
For this particular course, servicemen are required to take care of themselves in the jungle. They receive a safety briefing beforehand. Second-Lieutenant Lam was given four litres of water and tablets to purify stream or river water for drinking.
'The board unfortunately established that Second-Lieutenant Lam may not have hydrated himself during this period of training,' Mr Teo said.
In the case of Recruit Cheah, he fainted during a 2km walk in Pulau Tekong and later died in hospital.
The 20-year-old was undergoing a 15-week basic military training programme meant for mildly obese recruits.
An autopsy found that he had an infection, which typically has symptoms that include cough, phlegm, fever and breathing difficulties.
Recruit Cheah told section mates that he felt breathless but had no other symptoms. An instructor who was with him on the walk asked if he was not feeling well. Recruit Cheah replied that he was just tired.
'In these circumstances, it was difficult for his instructors or platoon mates, or indeed Recruit Cheah himself, to have known that the breathlessness was caused by acute pneumonitis and not simply fatigue,' said Mr Teo.
The instructor allowed him to continue on a walk around the Pulau Tekong camp stadium and did not pull him out as Recruit Cheah was able to converse clearly.
Mr Teo said that in both cases, there were no lapses in the training safety system, negligence or foul play on the part of any personnel. Also, neither case was linked to medical screening.
He assured MPs that the safety of soldiers in training was taken 'very seriously'.
Soldiers are well-prepared for training and strenuous exercises.
They get sufficient rest and follow a proper hydration regime. Medics are on-site, and commanders look out for soldiers who show signs that they are feeling unwell.
Mr Teo also reiterated that all soldiers go through a detailed medical screening process before enlistment.
The two deaths in June led the Ministry of Defence to call an unprecedented three-day suspension of physical and endurance training activities to ensure proper procedures were in place.
Mr Teo also told Mr Siew that investigations into the Sept 30 death of full-time national serviceman Joe Foo Wei Rong, 20, are still ongoing. <!-- end of for each --><!-- Current Ratings : start --><SCRIPT language=javascript> addRatingPortion() </SCRIPT>

Teo Chee Hean is really a fucking cheebye. this sort of info should have been disclosed right off the bat. Try to cover up until a NMP bring it up as a question in Parliament. Someone forgot to tell Cheebye Teo that we all served NS, and have sons, brothers etc. in NS, and we deserve to know. If for no other reason than to prevent it from happening to us. Many of us have been to Brunei for jungle training. Yes, u really need to keep hydrated, u sweat like crazy there. But they never give specific guidelines. "Drink a lot of water" means many things to many people. They should be more specific like "Drink 1 litre of water for every 2 hours of physical activity". But they don;t say this.

The recruit's death is totally preventably, and only cheebye Teo cannot see this. This guy was already in an obese platoon, which means that right of the bat, u have a batch of recuits that are not in physical shape, below average in fact, and probably have other medical conditions too. these people need to be monitored closely. If the instructor is told the recruit has difficulty breathing, he needs to send him to the dr. right away.

 

[manokie]

NS has caused much more deaths in SG than wars or conflicts with other countries

 

[Papsmearer]

And yet, every now and then, NS are dying during training

This is a bullshit statement. medics are onsite, but where is "onsite"? For jungle training on your own, there is no medic. The medic is hours aways, maybe even days away. My friend in Temburong was cut exercise due to serious injury and only managed to see a dr. 2 days after being evacuated out to the road. Most medics are waiting in camp, not accompanying the recruits. Commanders in my experience look for for people who skyve, not people in need of medical attention.

 

[halsey02]

Teo Chee Hean is really a fucking cheebye. this sort of info should have been disclosed right off the bat. Try to cover up until a NMP bring it up as a question in Parliament. Someone forgot to tell Cheebye Teo that we all served NS, and have sons, brothers etc. in NS, and we deserve to know. If for no other reason than to prevent it from happening to us. Many of us have been to Brunei for jungle training. Yes, u really need to keep hydrated, u sweat like crazy there. But they never give specific guidelines. "Drink a lot of water" means many things to many people. They should be more specific like "Drink 1 litre of water for every 2 hours of physical activity". But they don;t say this.

The recruit's death is totally preventably, and only cheebye Teo cannot see this. This guy was already in an obese platoon, which means that right of the bat, u have a batch of recuits that are not in physical shape, below average in fact, and probably have other medical conditions too. these people need to be monitored closely. If the instructor is told the recruit has difficulty breathing, he needs to send him to the dr. right away.

Died during the 2.4Km walk, run or march?...during my time our route march with full battle order, is many KM more than that I am sure Backside teo will find it hard to complete...

This guy must be terribly obese & unfit...poor fellow..

This is why they are so happy to give the $9,000 in three tranches, for they know..many can not even pass recruit... ha ha ha, how to earn that first $3,000?

 

[Leongsam]

NS has caused much more deaths in SG than wars or conflicts with other countries

That's because many Sinkie men are wimps who collapse and die under the slightest stress. Being separated for the first time from their mummies at the tender age of 18 is an added factor.

I fully support NS. It weeds out the weak and the lazy and toughens up those who survive. That's how the law of natural selection is supposed to work.

 

[Papsmearer]

That's because many Sinkie men are wimps who collapse and die under the slightest stress. Being separated for the first time from their mummies at the tender age of 18 is an added factor.

I fully support NS. It weeds out the weak and the lazy and toughens up those who survive. That's how the law of natural selection is supposed to work.

How come u are still alive than? Darwin's theory missed you?

 

[halsey02]

How come u are still alive than? Darwin's theory missed you?

No Darwin theory did not miss him, it was Darwin's Theory of Evolution in reverse, Darwin isn't around to recod it!

 

[mako65]

It's high time for SAF to do a out-sourcing, like France....bring in the Pakis, Banglas and Indons to form a foreign legion! hahaha...

 

[Ramseth]

CMPB pre-enlistment medical screening and incamp medical centres are a one-sided joke. All enlistees are assumed to be malingering for downgrade or excuse unless physically proven otherwise. Furthermore, physical exams are also a procedural textbook joke as the medical officers are the biggest jokers of all, deferees just out of medical schools returning to complete their NS terms.

Not that you can't get a second opinion from an experienced doctor whom you trust, but that cost money, and certainly not available in case of emergency like in the middle of training, especially if in a foreign jungle. Many rich men's sons got exempted from NS or downgraded after spending tens of thousands of dollars on private specialists. I'm not suggesting that they bought the exemption or downgrade. I'm just saying that they could afford to get it verified and certified.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Died during the 2.4Km walk, run or march?...during my time our route march with full battle order, is many KM more than that I am sure Backside teo will find it hard to complete...

This guy must be terribly obese & unfit...poor fellow..

This is why they are so happy to give the $9,000 in three tranches, for they know..many can not even pass recruit... ha ha ha, how to earn that first $3,000?

wah piah, not walk lah. proper term is brisk walk, ie walk in double quick time. More terok than running. The shins and ankles will be screaming in pain while the DIs/PTI scream your ears to walk faster.
Not sure if BMTC still using the same format. At least 15yrs ago, obese cannot do any running for their first month because running will hurt the knee and spine due to obese recruits' weight. I had seen fellow obese recruit heli evac after collapsed during this type of "walking" excerise. That poor fellow, suppose to have a scholarship waiting for him but suffer heat stroke and have permant brain damage.:(

 

[halsey02]

wah piah, not walk lah. proper term is brisk walk, ie walk in double quick time. More terok than running. The shins and ankles will be screaming in pain while the DIs/PTI scream your ears to walk faster.
Not sure if BMTC still using the same format. At least 15yrs ago, obese cannot do any running for their first month because running will hurt the knee and spine due to obese recruits' weight. I had seen fellow obese recruit heli evac after collapsed during this type of "walking" excerise. That poor fellow, suppose to have a scholarship waiting for him but suffer heat stroke and have permant brain damage.:(

Wah!, if these people were to be transported back in time, to mine...many of them would have DIED.

It was full battle order, rifle with full magazine of blanks, cock to safe of course!....water bottle filled etc... the KM was measured in ten... and if they are bloody sadist enough, they make you JOG....WITH RIFLE in your arms..

so these 2.4km walkers...would all have passed away doing the route march during my recruit days...:p

 

[Papsmearer]

CMPB pre-enlistment medical screening and incamp medical centres are a one-sided joke. All enlistees are assumed to be malingering for downgrade or excuse unless physically proven otherwise. Furthermore, physical exams are also a procedural textbook joke as the medical officers are the biggest jokers of all, deferees just out of medical schools returning to complete their NS terms.

Not that you can't get a second opinion from an experienced doctor whom you trust, but that cost money, and certainly not available in case of emergency like in the middle of training, especially if in a foreign jungle. Many rich men's sons got exempted from NS or downgraded after spending tens of thousands of dollars on private specialists. I'm not suggesting that they bought the exemption or downgrade. I'm just saying that they could afford to get it verified and certified.

No need to spend thousands of dollars. I don't know where u got that from. U just need to be politically connected. That's all. I know Winston Choo did favours for a few friends and downgraded their sons. I also know other politically connected people, just one phone call, and downgrade to PES B or C. They don't have time to see specialists, and it is not important to them to even pretend to be a PES B or C.