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Australia Property Prices Crashing, Dollar Sinks, Economy near Recession

Aussie Prick

Alfrescian
Loyal
Utterly bearish outlook. China surpassing Japan to be #2 is endemic of its growth, not its inherent instability. China had its problems, agreeably lopsided in its development but a bursting of the property market would be dependent on oversupply and too much credit vis a vis the Western model. In China there is much less leverage, down-payments are higher; any falls in values are likely to be representive of normal market correction.

It is true the fixed investment will be less this time but if the American can institute a QE2 then so shall the Chinese. Inflation is a constraint so agreeably the amount will be capped smaller at several hundred billion.

It is true there is fear of China's collapse, but the govt there can control the situation when the market corrects. A correction is desirable in the near term but the govt will step in, this view is somewhat bullish.

However we can all agree Western thinking in China is not realistic.

We might be at the cusp. Spent the whole day at the office looking at capital outflows from China. The smart money is fleeing the PRC and we are officially very concerned where this could go.

No doubt there will be more stimulus, easing soon in China - but what about inflation? China is at breaking point openly admitting inflation target of 4% has been abandoned and the new target is 5% http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ina-inflation-and-growth-cool/article2159238/

We have to question how much more fuel on the fire China can endure - and threaten social harmony. Where do we stand with gdp @7% and inflation at 4-5%? Stagflation. A small stimulus will do nothing for the world economy this time. Hearing stories today of warehouses in china full of copper too, its just a house of cards in the cautious view but still the world's centre of manufacturing.

What can save us all is if Beijing pushed for more consumerism. We might not be able to wait for those Chinese consumers to replace to the tapped out Western Ones.
 

axe168

Alfrescian
Loyal
You shld come to Mel, the apartments avg about $500k close to city with 3bedrooms
Lol, yah, they were talking how the property is 1.8mil on the street and they were "lucky" to get it. Later they asked how much I'm willing to pay for my property.

Realistic speaking, 400-500K now for a 1 bedroom apartment in CBD, expensive area like Rhodes. 2 bedroom, 100sqm is already 630K. These are old apartments should be able to get a 2-3 bedroom for around 400-500K as well.
 
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Ash007

Alfrescian
Loyal
Looks like house property going to be "flat" then this week.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/a-crash-in-property-prices-dont-bet-on-it-20111005-1l9nz.html

A crash in property prices? Don't bet on it
October 6, 2011
Comments 64

Illustration: John Shakespeare
Could this be a real estate salesman's fantasy come true? If financial armageddon is what you crave, there's plenty to feed your habit right now; a rout on global sharemarkets, commodity prices crashing, the dollar under attack and panic on debt markets.

But then there's good old Aussie bricks and mortar. It has held up well during a time of almost unprecedented economic uncertainty.

Despite a veritable army of doomsayers - as evidenced by the number of websites and chat rooms - salivating at the prospect of a crash in property prices, so far it has stubbornly failed to materialise.

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There is no doubt residential real estate prices are on the slide. And if the economy stalls and unemployment rises, they will continue to edge lower. But don't count on a crash.

Latest numbers by RP Data-Rismark show capital city residential prices are down just 3.2 per cent on a national basis compared with this time last year.

Most of that decline has been borne by houses -a 3.9 per cent decline in the past one year with most pain concentrated in the top end of the market - while there has been hardly any movement in home unit prices.

Look back two years, and in almost every capital except for Perth, home values are steady or slightly below 2009 levels.

Sydney, however, has bucked the trend. Prices have risen strongly over that two-year period, and in the past year they have remained barely changed against drops of between 4 per cent and 7 per cent in the other capital cities.

The fearmongers love to compare Australian real estate with America. They manipulate graphs and data to make it appear the local market is in as much trouble as the US one.

But American real estate still hasn't recovered. In case you missed it, an advertisement on the front page of the Asian edition of the Financial Times a fortnight ago had the real estate equivalent of the BOGOF (Buy One Get One Free) sale. The deal was, buy five American houses for $US200,000 ($209,000) all up and get the sixth one for just $US25,000.

The logic goes, if it happened there, it is bound to happen here. But you may as well compare Australia with Mars.

Ignoring that America is in recession and we are not, and that our population is concentrated on a narrow strip of coastal fringe, there are a host of other reasons that point to a soft landing in real estate, even in the worst case of a serious downturn in the domestic economy.

The main difference is in the way our banks lend. Our mortgages are fully recourse whereas in the US, they are non-recourse. Default on a home loan here, and the bank will chase you for the outstanding cash and bankrupt you if need be. Not in America. If you owe double the value of your home, you can simply walk out, leave the keys in the door and let the bank take the pain.

The result is that Australians are less likely to default than Americans, even under extreme duress. That means fewer houses on the market during a recession, which means less pressure on prices. When the housing bubble burst in the US, an already soft market was flooded, causing home prices to slump by more than 50 per cent.

A Reserve Bank paper on our property market delivered this week says supply side constraints have conspired to keep home prices high.

The growth in available housing has not kept pace with population growth, particularly in the past decade when population increases oustripped housing growth for the first time in more than half a century.

This is partly because we have been slow to embrace high-rise and high-density living, even as urban sprawl has reached a critical point.

If home ownership is a national obsession, the flipside is that it is the Achilles heel of our banking system.

The big four banks are hugely exposed to residential real estate. So those predicting a crash in housing prices, by association are predicting a crisis in the banking system.

Right now, our banks are having a devil of a time trying to convince anyone to borrow money. Lending growth for housing has shrunk to just 5.8 per cent, its lowest in 27 years, forcing banks to actually start competing with one another.

At least it's positive. In fact, housing loans are about the only growth area for banks.

Corporate lending has been shrinking with the latest figures showing a 0.9 per cent decline from the same period last year.

That spendthrift attitude we had back in the boom has long gone. We've now become a nation of savers, and deposit growth has surged to record levels. In August alone, we slapped another $28 billion into bank vaults. That was a 2.1 per cent rise for the month, and 10 per cent more than the same period last year.

That trend is evident across the developed world. Debt has become a dirty word and deleveraging is in.

In Europe and the US, a few economists have begun arguing that cutting interest rates when nobody wants to borrow is a futile exercise if you are trying to kickstart your economy.

It's a valid point. But we aren't trying to kickstart our economy. Until a couple of months ago, we were choofing along at full speed. And we don't have vast numbers of empty dwellings up for sale. Most of ours are occupied.

So, unlike the rest of the developed world, a cut in interest rates would put a floor under the housing market as it would make repayments easier.

If worse comes to worst, our central bank has a great deal more ammunition than its European and American counterparts, ordnance that's a great deal more effective.

The chances of an Aussie property crash? As rare as hen's teeth.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/a-cr...t-bet-on-it-20111005-1l9nz.html#ixzz1Zx00I09c
 

Aussie Prick

Alfrescian
Loyal
looks like a short cover rally today. some very funny articles coming out of europe. i dont know if its comedy or tragedy
 

Ash007

Alfrescian
Loyal
Wow 20% drop today. Reading news on property is really confusing nowadays.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/more-gloom-ahead-for-housing-sector-20111007-1lcob.html

More gloom ahead for housing sector
Chris Zappone
October 7, 2011 - 12:01PM
Housing starts are predicted to drop 20 per cent over the year to June 2012, as the sector faces nervousness among buyers and weaker industry conditions.

Investment bank Merrill Lynch believes new home commencements will drop to 134,000 in the year to June 2012, from a peak of 167,000 in the year to June 2011, with a risk they could fall further.

The grim assessment of the housing sector activity - an important employer for construction but also for real estate and finance industries - comes as a key reading on housing sector activity fell to the lowest level in 31 months in September.

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The Australian Industry Group-Housing Industry Association performance of construction index dropped by 2.1 points to 30 in September, marking the 16th straight month under the 50-point line that divides expansion from subtraction.

The measure, which looks at employment, orders and new business in the sector, posted its weakest reading since February 2009, when the economy was just shaking off the shocks of the global financial crisis.

‘‘A majority of Australian PCI components contracted at a faster rate in September, amidst a deteriorating global economic climate which is adding a fresh round of fragility to consumer and business confidence here at home,’’ said Housing Industry Association chief economist Harley Dale.

The impact of a slowing housing market is expected to be felt across other sectors, as well.

‘‘Interest rate cuts are appropriate and justified and there is a compelling need for fiscal stimulus to boost new housing supply, which would also deliver a positive multiplier impact to the wider domestic economy,’’ said Dr Dale.

The high debt levels of Australian households and the tendency to pay down debts rather than take out further loans may keep a lid on domestic spending overall, according to economists.

Despite a headline variable mortgage rate currently at about 7.8 per cent, the share of household disposable income going towards mortgage repayments is equal that of mid-2007 when the variable rates were 8.3 per cent, according to the JPMorgan/Fujitsu Australia Mortgage Industry Report released this week.

‘‘Households are delicately poised at current interest rates,’’ the report said. ‘‘Whilst there was a loss of momentum at the onset of the GFC, the level of gearing remains at historical highs, which retains the burden on household incomes to service interest requirements,’’ the report said.

‘‘This heightened leverage to rates is due to household debt relative to disposable income increasing from 126 per cent to 134 per cent over this time,’’ the JP Morgan report said.

The RBA left the cash rate on hold this week at 4.75 per cent, leaving it unchanged for its 10th consecutive meeting. In a change of tone, however, the central bank left open the possibility of rate cuts should inflation remain benign.

The market currently prices in a 100 per cent chance of a rate when the RBA meets in November, with a one-in-three chance of a 50 basis point cut.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/more-gloom-ahead-for-housing-sector-20111007-1lcob.html#ixzz1a3U2Kchh
 

neddy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Wow 20% drop today. Reading news on property is really confusing nowadays.

Stay away from the noise from the newspapers and see for yourself.

At any time, there are only a small number of properties for sales, and the prices are influenced by this small group of sellers/buyers.
For many people, the properties are there to live in or invested. They don't care about the prices.

I set realestate.com.au email subscription for a number of years now. In the past, I always get some emails from them on properties for SALE.
After 2006, the numbers of emails I get is reduced until it finally stopped altogether. Now, I start getting emails again - meaning that the properties have returned to my price range.

Why not you try that? Get reminders of property for sales. Select your preferred suburbs, price range, type of properties, etc.
 

Ash007

Alfrescian
Loyal
Good point, thanks for the tip.

Stay away from the noise from the newspapers and see for yourself.

At any time, there are only a small number of properties for sales, and the prices are influenced by this small group of sellers/buyers.
For many people, the properties are there to live in or invested. They don't care about the prices.

I set realestate.com.au email subscription for a number of years now. In the past, I always get some emails from them on properties for SALE.
After 2006, the numbers of emails I get is reduced until it finally stopped altogether. Now, I start getting emails again - meaning that the properties have returned to my price range.

Why not you try that? Get reminders of property for sales. Select your preferred suburbs, price range, type of properties, etc.
 

Aussie Prick

Alfrescian
Loyal
most aussie property news comes from the construction industry, banks or other industry linked sources. looking at the data month over month and year over year you can see the market for what it is.

Look at the number of listings, avg amount of time property is on the market, and the interest rate. looks like people in australia are waiting for rate cuts.

Will the market fall further? Will the inventory continue to grow or will the market stabilize when rates are cut next year? We dont know.

in perth for example last 12 months the market is -7.1%. The press will tell you -1%, but look at the last 12 months for a clearer picture.

http://www.news.com.au/perth-home-values-plummet-in-august/story-e6frg2ru-1226154145647

From: PerthNow
September 30, 2011

DOWN: Property values in Perth fell 2 per cent in August, 3.8 per cent in the July quarter, and 7.1 per cent in the last 12 months, RP Data says. Picture: Steve Qnp\perth/pohlner Source: PerthNow

MARKET analyst RP Data says Perth property values have dropped more than 7 per cent over the last 12 months, the biggest fall nationwide.

Brisbane is performing only slightly better than WA’s capital, recording a 6.1 per cent decline in dwelling values for the year to August.

Meanwhile, the RP Data-Rismark Hedonic Home Value Index for August indicated that, in pure capital terms, Australian capital city dwelling values have declined by 3.2 per cent over the 12 months to August 2011.
 

axe168

Alfrescian
Loyal
Watch for Perth property growth in 3 mths time... Next follow by Brisbane in 6 mths... Next Adelaide.. Soon follow by relaxation of migration... the whole country prosper again.. Enjoy the foreseeable future.. Prepare your sail to catch the next waves.
 

neddy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Watch for Perth property growth in 3 mths time... Next follow by Brisbane in 6 mths... Next Adelaide.. Soon follow by relaxation of migration... the whole country prosper again.. Enjoy the foreseeable future.. Prepare your sail to catch the next waves.

Axe,
No need to wait for a RBA's 50 basis pt correction before Xmas. The new property market below $700k is still quietly active, just that without govt stimulus, the prices are not over boiling.

No one believe just much great this coming energy boom is for OZ. These are not speculation, these are confirmed long-term contracts with govts to supply energy to countries with growing middle-class.

Singapore is also benefitting as a middleman. Singapore or Australia, it is your world. :smile:
 

axe168

Alfrescian
Loyal
Axe,
No need to wait for a RBA's 50 basis pt correction before Xmas. The new property market below $700k is still quietly active, just that without govt stimulus, the prices are not over boiling.

No one believe just much great this coming energy boom is for OZ. These are not speculation, these are confirmed long-term contracts with govts to supply energy to countries with growing middle-class.

Singapore is also benefitting as a middleman. Singapore or Australia, it is your world. :smile:

Neddy, no sure about SG is my world.. but I must admit Oz will be another round of lucky country :smile: the ppl don't have a clue of what is coming next.. we will have boom for the next 20-40 years. Check out the Bass Strait - Victoria, after 40yrs ExxonMobil is still pumping..

http://www.exxonmobil.com/Australia-English/PA/about_what_gipps_bs.aspx
 

neddy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Neddy, no sure about SG is my world.. but I must admit Oz will be another round of lucky country :smile: the ppl don't have a clue of what is coming next.. we will have boom for the next 20-40 years. Check out the Bass Strait - Victoria, after 40yrs ExxonMobil is still pumping..

http://www.exxonmobil.com/Australia-English/PA/about_what_gipps_bs.aspx


This state is giving new migrants a chance to get a foothold in this country. I wish I had this type of opportunity when I first arrive here.

On Tuesday 11 October 2011, 19:33 EST

The Chamber of Commerce and Industry says WA's economy will outpace the rest of the nation as it continues to experience significant growth.

The chamber says the local economy will expand by more than six per cent this financial year, and a further seven per cent the year after.

It says those growth rates have not been seen since the last resources boom and are more in line with developing countries such as China.

The CCI's chief economist John Nicolaou says strong employment figures are likely to push average earnings up significantly over the next two years.

Figures released by the chamber suggest the state's unemployment rate will drop to less than four per cent by the end of the financial year.

Mr Nicolaou says demand for labour on major resources projects will push average weekly wages up by as much as 7.25 per cent by 2013.

He says that will create problems for the industry and governments.

"There is going to be more competition for scarce labour in an environment of strong growth so that is a key challenge that the state will continue to face," he said.

"It is one that does require priority if we are to sustain our growth in the longer term." Premier Colin Barnett has questioned the CCI's figures and says those wage predictions are not sustainable.

"The component of growth that is driving those figures is investment income and export income so that doesn't necessarily translate across the economy," he said.

"Let's face it, the growth rate may not necessarily be achieved, I believe the West Australian economy will typically grow in the range of about four to six per cent." Mr Nicolaou says, however, policies need to be put in place to maximise WA's position.

"There needs to be a renewed focus on how WA can sustain its growth over the longer term," he said.
 
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axe168

Alfrescian
Loyal
3 cheers for Perth ! I hope Perth will be the leader to bring this property boom.. hopefully, my chickens in Brisbane can sell well..
 

axe168

Alfrescian
Loyal
for fuck sake??? :*:

no biz plan, no marketing strategy. only know how to 'hope'??

You are refering marketing strategy for my chickens ? Hmmm I thought it is just 1 customer per session per hourly basis of satisfaction ? Discreet service for advertisement and local newspapers? Hmmm sounds gd but I prefer to do it discreetly for discreet service ;-)
 
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