Association of Muslim Professionals finally wake up and take their PAP partner.

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

The Malays sold the land to the British. How did Chinese acquire land from the British? Rob them at gunpoint? I think the British have more powerful guns but they preferred cash, just like your ancestors whom sold the land to them in the first place did. To be fair, many Indians and Malays bought land here too.

You are incredibly dumb to think that you are actually clever by trying to redefine "land" as small parcels being traded when I use the term "land" to clearly indicate our Tanah Melayu that unwanted chang huayi Chinese pendatangs like you are living on and think you actually own. That's the reason why unwanted Chinese pendatangs like you should pack up and leave.

Acquaint yourself with the concept of "colonialism" and what the end of European colonialism means. I have already explained it. Get someone to explain it to you in Mandarin.

Then what do you think the Chinese should speak among themselves, as if it's your problem or prerogative to decide or dictate?

Precisely my point. If unwanted Chinese pendatangs like you and your ilk don't want to be dictated to, likewise don't try to dictate to my people on how we should dress, practice our faith, etc.

Always remember, "chang huayi, huaren huayi" Chinese like you are aliens to our land and instead, would be on home ground and most comfortable in your own land in China. That's the reason why we say Chinese with your SAP chang huayi huaren huayi chauvinistic mentality should pack up and return to where you rightfully belong - China.

 

[Ramseth]

Actually, I've always been Malay-friendly and Malays are always friendly to me too. And yes, from Tanjung Rhu and Kampung Glam childhood days to police force days, I picked up some Malay enough to speak it with my childhood Malay buddies and police force colleagues. Really, I don't know what you problem is all about.

I've been to Malaysian Parlimen, Dewan Rakyat where even Chinese MPs have to speak and debate in Malay. Not a problem for me, much less for them. The majority rules the day and sets the rules. Malaysia taught Malay in schools to all Malaysians. If you'd like that in Singapore, go petition PAP to do that. I really don't mind.

 

[kingrant]

Why don't you cut to the chase and give me yr pov in bulleted form?

I tire of this line by line analysis. If I counter you in such a fashion, I'll go into endless side aerguments.

No wonder you miss many a forest for the trees.

......Some long piece of drivel...

 

[kingrant]

Re: Dialogue

Thanks Porfiro! I understood you were from the Old SBF and disappeared for a while just when I joined.

It was very interesting to have yr pov too, bro.

Cheers.

to Kingrant...generally appreciate your insightful povs bro...


cheerios

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Why don't you cut to the chase and give me yr pov in bulleted form?

I tire of this line by line analysis. If I counter you in such a fashion, I'll go into endless side aerguments.

No wonder you miss many a forest for the trees.

Aren't you the genius. I have long stated my pov in this forum and you can actually ask me again.


You make baseless allegiations on me and i put in the effort to prove that they are baseless, unable to prove me wrong but yet with a huge ego and 0 humility you decided to simply brush them aside and call them names. Onlookers can see that you're in the wrong here. In fact i actually like your method. Why even put in the effort to reply to someone? Just simply brush what they have written as drivel and proclaim victory, saying they lack foresight miss the forrest for the trees and other over used idioms. I like that, in future i'll follow your method in a debate.


You raised a few points in your last post and i put in the effort to reply to every one of them in short you're the one actually going off tangent. I put in the effort to reply point for point on what you have written but since you have dismissed them as side arguments ok in future pls simply write what you want in 1 sentence ok.


Lastly pray tell oh wise one what did i miss exactly? You claim that you have the foresight and have the ability to read minds and can read between the lines. All right just simply tell me what did i miss?

Here's something i always notice when i encounter self-proclaimed intellectuals like you. You'll say such and such a person cannot see what you can see yet never ever tell the person what he has missed. Pls enlighten me what have i missed.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Actually, I've always been Malay-friendly and Malays are always friendly to me too. And yes, from Tanjung Rhu and Kampung Glam childhood days to police force days, I picked up some Malay enough to speak it with my childhood Malay buddies and police force colleagues. Really, I don't know what you problem is all about.

I've been to Malaysian Parlimen, Dewan Rakyat where even Chinese MPs have to speak and debate in Malay. Not a problem for me, much less for them. The majority rules the day and sets the rules. Malaysia taught Malay in schools to all Malaysians. If you'd like that in Singapore, go petition PAP to do that. I really don't mind.

2 questions ram on what i have highlighted in red. Why don't the chinese have any problem learning malay? Yet from what i gather from this thread it seems having the malays learn mandarin like committing some unspeakable act of evil?

Apparently in sg it looks like the majority doesn't rule the day not at all.

 

[Ramseth]

2 questions ram on what i have highlighted in red. Why don't the chinese have any problem learning malay? Yet from what i gather from this thread it seems having the malays learn mandarin like committing some unspeakable act of evil?

Apparently in sg it looks like the majority doesn't rule the day not at all.

Learning basic conversational Malay has been and is still relatively easy. In the past, even if Malays are interested to learn Chinese tongues, they were faced with a plethora of dialects. I think the standardisation of Mandarin among Chinese is even more convenient to non-Chinese, as MMVPAP has also posted, but in an adverse way. Instead of easier communication, he wants to lump all Chinese together and ship them out.

No Chinese ever expected Malays to learn Chinese. There're many Malay loanwords incorporated into local Chinese vocabulary, e.g. tahan, makan, jalan, senang, baru etc. etc. These are words not understood in PRC, HK, ROC, only understood in Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Learning basic conversational Malay has been and is still relatively easy. In the past, even if Malays are interested to learn Chinese tongues, they were faced with a plethora of dialects. I think the standardisation of Mandarin among Chinese is even more convenient to non-Chinese, as MMVPAP has also posted, but in an adverse way. Instead of easier communication, he wants to lump all Chinese together and ship them out.

No Chinese ever expected Malays to learn Chinese. There're many Malay loanwords incorporated into local Chinese vocabulary, e.g. tahan, makan, jalan, senang, baru etc. etc. These are words not understood in PRC, HK, ROC, only understood in Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia.

Damn it looks like it's damn if you do damn if you don't situation, just look at the complaints here.

Chinese don't expect malays to learn chinese but malays expect chinese to learn malay and if you don't agree you're considered a bad person. What's the world coming to.

 

[kingrant]

My last word. What you missed is not being able to cross the dots and form the whole picture of what's happening. If I want to listen to the same govt rationalisations, I should better listen to the horse's mouth, which is far more articulate than yours. You shld be more discerning in what you read and hear from the PAP, than just swallow everyhting and regurgitate them here.

Cheers bro. I am just too worn out by yr constant drivel and longwindedness.

Here's something i always notice when i encounter self-proclaimed intellectuals like you. You'll say such and such a person cannot see what you can see yet never ever tell the person what he has missed. Pls enlighten me what have i missed.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

My last word. What you missed is not being able to cross the dots and form the whole picture of what's happening. If I want to listen to the same govt rationalisations, I should better listen to the horse's mouth, which is far more articulate than yours. You shld be more discerning in what you read and hear from the PAP, than just swallow everyhting and regurgitate them here.

Cheers bro. I am just too worn out by yr constant drivel and longwindedness.

OH ok i missed it. Could you then tell me what the entire picture is? Or is it too much work for you to write it out?

So now it's no more about logical discussions but more on one's articulation and other unimportant stuff. Don't assume how others think. You're simply implying that i listen to the govt all becos i don't follow your way of thinking. I have a brain to discern and rationalize understand. Perhaps that's too complex a concept for you to grasp.

Lastly what's wrong with being long winded? As long as i get my point across who cares? You're similar to screwball in the sense that you love to try your best to squeeze in as many seldom used bombastic words to make yourself look "intelligent". I simply write in simple english phrases and i'm called less articulate. All this has definitely made my observation of your character dead on. You're arrogant, stubborn, self righteous and delusional.

 

[kingrant]

Ok not really my habit to break my last word. Try googiling to "Speak mandarin campaign" and "SAP schools" in wiki and read thru some of the well-known criticisms.

Things are not as straight forward as you think.

OH ok i missed it. Could you then tell me what the entire picture is? Or is it too much work for you to write it out?

 

[Leongsam]

Lastly what's wrong with being long winded? As long as i get my point across who cares?

The problem with being long winded is that very few people bother to read long posts.

Attention spans are very short in this day and age. To get a point across, you need to do it less than 150 words.

Take this post for example, I didn't get past the opening para.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Ok not really my habit to break my last word. Try googiling to "Speak mandarin campaign" and "SAP schools" in wiki and read thru some of the well-known criticisms.

Things are not as straight forward as you think.

Jesus chris didn't i already explain about these 2 issues? You're impossible. Short term memory.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

The problem with being long winded is that very few people bother to read long posts.

Attention spans are very short in this day and age. To get a point across, you need to do it less than 150 words.

Take this post for example, I didn't get past the opening para.

IC thanks for the input i put in the effort to explain it pt for pt but the idiot simply dismisses it.

In future i won't write so much.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Let me summarize this thread. AMP writes a response to MM lee's remarks which are the hard truths. He's just merely stating facts.

Screwball and co are extremely indignant about it and start to give examples as to why the malays behave like this. These examples are the usual suspects and have been debated and explained to death. Of course those on his side are unreasonable. The min you disagree with them you're a racist and a pappy dog.

This is also further proven when a troll with the nick MMVP comes in. He's an extremist that advocates all non malays leave the land. I and some forummers have already explained why this land doesn't solely belong to the malays. In fact screwball doesn't even bother to listen to that but supports this troll MMVP, showing that he's hiding behind a facade. This is further proven by his extremely riddiculous reasonings like the malays own the malay archeipelago simply cos they look like the ppl that occupied this land first.

Kingrant takes it even further by saying MMVP is allowed to behave like this cos of how he's been treated by this system and govt which is obviously idiotic.

SAP schools and speak mandarin campaign is used to unite the chinese and to faciliate easier communication bet the chinese. Of course these naysayers had to disagree and say there's a more sinister reason behind it. I then countered and asked is that really the reason? Do they have the real evidence or pure conjunture. Kingrant whom obviously doesn't have the evidence to back up his claims but is a self proclaimed intellectual thus concludes if you disagree with him you're a pappy dog and blind which is ironic since screwball is working for the PAP IB.

Along the way i mentioned that there were many sensitivities shown to the malays such as national language status, army commands, national anthem and so on. These were brushed aside as kingrant puts it, it's still not enough. It's also not the malays fault that they are like this and you're not supposed to speak that the emperor is not wearing clothes. I further picked up on the double standards of this country when ram mentions that the chinese have no problems learning and speaking in malay cos they are a minority in malaysia. I then pointed out the double standards again when i mentioned it would be evil if you advocated the malays in sg learn mandarin cos they are a minority.

Pls add more if i have missed out on anything.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear MVPAP

I am surprised that you state that Malay's in Malaysia have no relavance to SG Malays as even Lily's Book is titled " Singapore in a Malay World ." You might claim no relavance because it is detrimental to your argument but still. what is the difference between Perkasa saying Malaysia is for the Malays, and you saying that even though you are a minority in your land, its your land to begain with and all others are leasing renting etc etc etc.

But even leaving that aside. Malays should be left to live their lives as they see fit, practise their religion as they see fit should not be made to take up materialistic chinese values .

I mean come on wake up smell whatever you are smoking. Even Mahatir is debating about the need for a modern globally competitive Malay and you are talking about shutting up the Malays in their own infantile private world ?

Speaking Mandarin will become more common not because LKY says so but because the economics demand it. Half of my English educated mission school cohort are sending their kids to speak mandarin classes because they see it as the future.

In so much as I accept that there is room for accomodating more Malay practises and culture we should be debating and saying what should be done.


Locke

 

[Windsor]

Ok guys, I have read through this thread countless times, yet refrain from commenting because anything I want to say have already been said by many of you. I just came across a piece from Art Harun's Blog and this guy makes sense, coming from one considered a patriotic Malaysian and a Malay. By the way, it is rather a long piece, so I trust you you read through it. I felt a deep sense of belonging after reading this, and I hope there will be less for usto argue about.

"Wednesday, February 09, 2011
Tun DrM - my hero
In the last few weeks I have been entertained by two of my favourite people in the world.
Yes. Tun DrM and Lee Kuan Yew. Felix Ungar and Oscar Madison. The pot and the kettle. The men with the plan. The visionaries. The beacon of liberty, freedom, progress, development and oh yes, the Asian Values.
One calls the other, firstly, "little Emperor of a tiny Middle Kingdom." Then he downgraded the other - two days ago, to be exact - from being an Emperor to just a Mayor. The other one insinuated that his counterpart is delusional. And it goes on.
Nobody knows who is right or who is mightier.
One thing which I know for sure is this. Both were benevolent absolutists bent on achieving anything which they managed to conjure up in their respective warped mind regardless of the consequences of their respective acts. Both are old people who really should just stop churning out vitriolic and do some good instead, like by not saying anything about anything.
Latest by Tun DrM is a mind boggling pronouncement that Malaysia belongs to Malays and that the non-Malays just have to live with that fact by accepting the culture and language of the dominant community. He has reportedly said :
“This country belongs to the Malay race. Peninsular Malaysia was known as Tanah Melayu but this cannot be said because it will be considered racist.
“We must be sincere and accept that the country is Tanah Melayu,” (The Malaysian Insider)
I am Malay. Tun DrM is my hero. Thank you very much Tun.
As dirty talks go, that must have outperformed Linda Lovelace and the whole Dallas team put together.
I do not know why some people are obsessed with the ownership of this country. It is as if this country is full of things which could be owned and are in fact owned. On my last count, Bahasa Melayu is owned by Malays. The word "Allah" is also owned by Malays (who by Constitutional definition is synonymous with Muslims). There are also "special rights" which are owned by Malays. 30% of the economy are owned - well, actually, are supposed to be owned - by Malays.
In fact, I know of one specific Malay who is going around town owning everything and anything - mostly government projects and monopolised businesses -which are "ownable."
And now this. Malaysia is owned by Malays.
I am so glad to know that. Because the last I went back to my kampung, I saw countless Malays riding old motorbikes, struggling to pay their water bills and school fees (who say our schools have no fees?), eating plain rice and ikan masin day in and day out, working in leased padi fields with just enough money to buy rice and ikan masin after paying their landlords for the padi field and the rentals for the tractors and harvesters.
Now I supposed, these poor Malays could go to the land office and claim this land, which has been declared as theirs.
Nice. The Malay problems are solved. Poverty among the Malays is solved. Declining standard of education is solved. Health care problem is solved. Inability to think is solved.
And with one sentence (or two), Tun DrM has managed to solve the issue which had been ghosting his mind since 1969. Yes folks. THE MALAY DILEMMA IS SOLVED.
Take that Minister (Senior) Lee Kuan Yew! What do you have to say about that huh? You surely have not solved the Chinese Dilemma, have you Minister Lee? In fact, you do not even have a Chinese Dilemma to begin with! How very inferior to Tun DrM you are.
I have written so much on the so called social contract and on how Malaysia gained her independence as well as the thoughts and rationale which went into the framing of some of the provisions of our Federal Constitution, especially article 153. I am not going to repeat them here.
I am not going to argue with Tun DrM anymore. Let's just assume - and it is really a very big assumption - that what he said is correct. Tanah Melayu belonged to the Malays. Let's just take that as the gospel (oh, I forget, I am Muslim, and so it should be the "Quranic") truth.
But is there a Tanah Melayu now? In 2011?
The truth is Tanah Melayu has disappeared from the face of the Earth at 12 midnight 31st August 1957, when Malaya, and later, Malaysia, was born. When the late Tunku Abdul Rahman was screaming "merdeka merdeka merdeka", Tanah Melayu achieved its independence and she morphed into this new state called Malaya, which later became Malaysia. All her citizens became Malayans, and later Malaysians. They may belong to different ethnicity, different race, different faith, different tribe speaking different language and dialect, but they all became Malayans that early morning.
This country belong not to Malays anymore that morning. This country belongs to Malaysians from that morning onwards.
If the Tun's favourite hypothesis of the social contract is correct, true and accurate - that there was a round table agreement between leaders of the three main races where the Malays have agreed to allow the non-Malays to become citizens in exchange for special rights - then by that same token, it means that the Malays, through that very social contract, have agreed to disclaim their ownership of Tanah Melayu in exchange for some special rights.
I am not making this up. I am saying this based on what Tun DrM has been saying all this while.
If ever there was such an agreement - as repetitiously blared by Tun DrM and his ilk - that would be the natural and legal consequences of that agreement.
If that being so, on what basis, I wonder, is Tun DrM now founding his claim that Malaysia is owned by the Malays?
As for Lee Kuan Yew, you do not have the right to even speak about us, okay. You have not even identified the Chinese Dilemma yet. You little Mayor!"

http://art-harun.blogspot.com/2011/02/tun-drm-my-hero.html

 

[Forvendet]

Fact is, if all the Chinese and non-Malays in Malaysia and Singapore sell out and leave, Malaysia and Singapore will go back to land in stone age - tanah batu. An group of Malay aristocrats will become lords and barons of the land while the majority commoner Malays live on poverty line happily chanting "this is our land." But is it? The lords and barons would own the land and the commoner Malays as de facto slaves.

No disrespect to my Malay friends intended, just the reality as I see it.

 

[kingrant]

As far as brevity and cionciseness are concerned, I'll give you 7 out of 10. If you had started out this way, we could have had a more fruitful exchange.

For accuracy, I'm afraid you can only do with a 2 as far as my points are related. Others may give you even less.

Let me summarize this thread. AMP writes a response to MM lee's remarks which are the hard truths. He's just merely stating facts.

Screwball and co are extremely indignant about it and start to give examples as to why the malays behave like this. These examples are the usual suspects and have been debated and explained to death. Of course those on his side are unreasonable. The min you disagree with them you're a racist and a pappy dog.

This is also further proven when a troll with the nick MMVP comes in. He's an extremist that advocates all non malays leave the land. I and some forummers have already explained why this land doesn't solely belong to the malays. In fact screwball doesn't even bother to listen to that but supports this troll MMVP, showing that he's hiding behind a facade. This is further proven by his extremely riddiculous reasonings like the malays own the malay archeipelago simply cos they look like the ppl that occupied this land first.

Kingrant takes it even further by saying MMVP is allowed to behave like this cos of how he's been treated by this system and govt which is obviously idiotic.

SAP schools and speak mandarin campaign is used to unite the chinese and to faciliate easier communication bet the chinese. Of course these naysayers had to disagree and say there's a more sinister reason behind it. I then countered and asked is that really the reason? Do they have the real evidence or pure conjunture. Kingrant whom obviously doesn't have the evidence to back up his claims but is a self proclaimed intellectual thus concludes if you disagree with him you're a pappy dog and blind which is ironic since screwball is working for the PAP IB.

Along the way i mentioned that there were many sensitivities shown to the malays such as national language status, army commands, national anthem and so on. These were brushed aside as kingrant puts it, it's still not enough. It's also not the malays fault that they are like this and you're not supposed to speak that the emperor is not wearing clothes. I further picked up on the double standards of this country when ram mentions that the chinese have no problems learning and speaking in malay cos they are a minority in malaysia. I then pointed out the double standards again when i mentioned it would be evil if you advocated the malays in sg learn mandarin cos they are a minority.

Pls add more if i have missed out on anything.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

As far as brevity and cionciseness are concerned, I'll give you 7 out of 10. If you had started out this way, we could have had a more fruitful exchange.

For accuracy, I'm afraid you can only do with a 2 as far as my points are related. Others may give you even less.

Oh please. My observation of your character is spot on. You sure are arrogant and delusional. Who are you to even rate me? Is this some sort of class?


I won't stoop as low as you to actually demand that my opinion is the truth. Continue dreaming.