Serious 50th Anniversay of 6 Day War and the impact on SAF, and how the Jews fucked us

[frenchbriefs]

[video=youtube;8TsZbAvfOEA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TsZbAvfOEA[/video]

 

[Papsmearer]

Only idiots use petrol for tanks....tat was why in ww2 the Shermans were crap n the krauts lost out as their tanks were petrol.. Soviets used a simple and effective design which could go toe to toe with the panzer IV..that is the t 34... diesel tanks r harder to blow up

Yes, but its not so easy.
Power to weight ratio usually favour petrol engines. Most British tanks were petrol engines, even the Centurion. It was only with the development of better diesel engines that the switch happened. I am guessing the French could not find a powerful enough diesel engine small enough to fit into the AMX-13. Even with diesel engines, which all russian tanks have, getting them to blow up was not that difficult. but the thin armour of the AMX-13 coupled with the petrol engine, made it death trap.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Yes, but its not so easy.
Power to weight ratio usually favour petrol engines. Most British tanks were petrol engines, even the Centurion. It was only with the development of better diesel engines that the switch happened. I am guessing the French could not find a powerful enough diesel engine small enough to fit into the AMX-13. Even with diesel engines, which all russian tanks have, getting them to blow up was not that difficult. but the thin armour of the AMX-13 coupled with the petrol engine, made it death trap.

Yup thin armour n petrol engine..a recipe for disaster....

 

[GoldenDragon]

Intelligence played a cardinal role in Israel's victory. Wolfgang Lotz had earlier penetrated Egypt's key military and political arena. That no dummy planes were hit during the preemptive strike is telling.

 

[Papsmearer]

Intelligence played a cardinal role in Israel's victory. Wolfgang Lotz had earlier penetrated Egypt's key military and political arena. That no dummy planes were hit during the preemptive strike is telling.

Yeah, that guy was a real sleeper agent. Amazing guy, read the book on him. He had every single egyptian missile position mapped out.

 

[eatshitndie]

Yeah, that guy was a real sleeper agent. Amazing guy, read the book on him. He had every single egyptian missile position mapped out.

the other one was eli cohen who penetrated deep into defense ministry of syria and became chief adviser to the minister. mapped out fortifications and weapon placements at golan heights which greatly helped the '67 war on that front. but he kena caught and executed in 1965.

 

[gatehousethetinkertailor]

Go and spend a few hours reading about the 6 day war before you spout off here. The Arabs had been threatening for months that they would drive the Jews into the sea with their combined armies. They had a coalition command to centralize their armies under one commander. They had many exercises simulating the attack on Israel. They were building up their armies with huge supplies from the Russians and other western countries. They were hardly unprepared and unequipped. If the Jews had not attacked, the Arabs would have attacked them within a few months. The loudmouth Gamal Nasser could not keep quiet about the invasion plans. what Israel did was not so much an invasion as a pre-emptive strike. If the arabs were not ready to take what they promised to dish out, its their problem.

Here is a recent documentary (from the Arab perspective) - your view subscribes to an-often cited narrative that even Israelis themselves have accepted is not true (see articles below) - Nasser may have been a "loudmouth" but he galvanised the Arabs across the Arabian Peninsula - they used to be glued to their radios whenever he spoke - the potential for Pan-Arabism resided with him.

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2017/05/war-june-1967-170529070920911.html

The thrust here is that the Egyptians miscalculated when they moved their troops into the Sinai as they were not intending to go to war at all - it was a show of force and sabre rattling - Arabist accepted that they was no "war" as such as they were absolutely decimated by the Israelis who had paid USD$1m to an Iraqi pilot (Munir Redfa) who defected in Aug 1966, almost a year before, to get their hands on the Soviet MiG. They has stripped the plane and knew everything they needed. There was also the peacenik Israeli politician who flew right into Egyptian airspace and landed without their radars detecting anything and this was also a glaring hole in their air defence system which delighted the Israelis.

Here are some recent articles (from Israeli press themselves) dispelling the idea that it was a war because Israel was "under threat" (documentary proof shows otherwise) and also how this then created the "myth" of the invincibility of the Israeli army (they got their asses handed to them subsequently during the Yom Kippur War) when the Egyptians decided they would launch an actual assault and Assad of Syria wanted to avenge his loss of face from 1967 because he was in charge as Minister of Defence when they lost the Golan Heights (he subsequently staged a coup and took over as President). And then there was the nuclear option which the Israelis seemed intent on deploying if things went bad in 1967...

Despite its total lack of sustainability from the documentary record, and despite such admissions from top Israeli officials, it is virtually obligatory for commentators in contemporary mainstream accounts of the ’67 war to describe Israel’s attack on Egypt as “preemptive”.

Israel’s attack on Egypt in June ’67 was not ‘preemptive’:
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.co...ttack-on-egypt-in-june-67-was-not-preemptive/

Revealed, the war before the Six Day War
http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-war-before-the-war/

Israel Deceived the World in 1967, and Paid the Price for It in 1973
Israel pretended to be the victim during the Six-Day War, and succeeded in deceiving the world. But it failed to prepare properly for the Yom Kippur War, fearing it would be blamed for starting the next war
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/six-day-war-50-years/.premium-1.793400

WAS THE SIX DAY WAR FOUGHT IN PART OVER ISRAEL’S NUCLEAR PROGRAM?
http://www.jpost.com/Six-Day-War-An...t-in-part-over-Israels-nuclear-program-494961

How they "stole the MiG"
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/stealing-a-soviet-mig

How the Six-Day War Built a Messianic Strain Still in Israeli Politics
http://time.com/4806513/six-day-war-national-religious/

The Truth Behind Israel's Desperate Plan to Set Off a Nuclear Device to Save Itself in 1967
Could Israel really have detonated a nuclear device on the eve of the Six Day War? The lead researcher for this explosive contention describes exposing what's still Israel’s biggest taboo: its nuclear capabilities
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/six-day-war-50-years/.premium-1.793800

Israel had secret plan to use nuclear bomb in Sinai during Six Day War, report reveals
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...pt-use-weapon-syria-jordan-iraq-a7774921.html

 

[GoldenDragon]

the other one was eli cohen who penetrated deep into defense ministry of syria and became chief adviser to the minister. mapped out fortifications and weapon placements at golan heights which greatly helped the '67 war on that front. but he kena caught and executed in 1965.

That's right. Amazing how both Eli and Wolfgang operated. Smooth Operators, death for the former notwithstanding.

 

[GoldenDragon]

Imo, the most important factor leading to the Six Day War was Israeli decision-makers' perception of an imminent threat to Israel's existence.

 

[Papsmearer]

Imo, the most important factor leading to the Six Day War was Israeli decision-makers' perception of an imminent threat to Israel's existence.

Hindsight is 20/20.
If the Arabs were sabre rattling and moving troops and armour into the SInai, they had better be prepared to fight. They underestimated the siege mentality of Israel. Israel will take every single opportunity it can to reduce the ability of its arab neighbours to wage war on them. The pre-emptive strike was too good to give up. The arabs talk too much. If you want to wipe out an enemy and push him into the sea, don't talk about it on the radio and make long speeches about it. Just do it.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Here is a recent documentary (from the Arab perspective) - your view subscribes to an-often cited narrative that even Israelis themselves have accepted is not true (see articles below) - Nasser may have been a "loudmouth" but he galvanised the Arabs across the Arabian Peninsula - they used to be glued to their radios whenever he spoke - the potential for Pan-Arabism resided with him.

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2017/05/war-june-1967-170529070920911.html

The thrust here is that the Egyptians miscalculated when they moved their troops into the Sinai as they were not intending to go to war at all - it was a show of force and sabre rattling - Arabist accepted that they was no "war" as such as they were absolutely decimated by the Israelis who had paid USD$1m to an Iraqi pilot (Munir Redfa) who defected in Aug 1966, almost a year before, to get their hands on the Soviet MiG. They has stripped the plane and knew everything they needed. There was also the peacenik Israeli politician who flew right into Egyptian airspace and landed without their radars detecting anything and this was also a glaring hole in their air defence system which delighted the Israelis.

Here are some recent articles (from Israeli press themselves) dispelling the idea that it was a war because Israel was "under threat" (documentary proof shows otherwise) and also how this then created the "myth" of the invincibility of the Israeli army (they got their asses handed to them subsequently during the Yom Kippur War) when the Egyptians decided they would launch an actual assault and Assad of Syria wanted to avenge his loss of face from 1967 because he was in charge as Minister of Defence when they lost the Golan Heights (he subsequently staged a coup and took over as President). And then there was the nuclear option which the Israelis seemed intent on deploying if things went bad in 1967...

Despite its total lack of sustainability from the documentary record, and despite such admissions from top Israeli officials, it is virtually obligatory for commentators in contemporary mainstream accounts of the ’67 war to describe Israel’s attack on Egypt as “preemptive”.

Israel’s attack on Egypt in June ’67 was not ‘preemptive’:
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.co...ttack-on-egypt-in-june-67-was-not-preemptive/

Revealed, the war before the Six Day War
http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-war-before-the-war/

Israel Deceived the World in 1967, and Paid the Price for It in 1973
Israel pretended to be the victim during the Six-Day War, and succeeded in deceiving the world. But it failed to prepare properly for the Yom Kippur War, fearing it would be blamed for starting the next war
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/six-day-war-50-years/.premium-1.793400

WAS THE SIX DAY WAR FOUGHT IN PART OVER ISRAEL’S NUCLEAR PROGRAM?
http://www.jpost.com/Six-Day-War-An...t-in-part-over-Israels-nuclear-program-494961

How they "stole the MiG"
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/stealing-a-soviet-mig

How the Six-Day War Built a Messianic Strain Still in Israeli Politics
http://time.com/4806513/six-day-war-national-religious/

The Truth Behind Israel's Desperate Plan to Set Off a Nuclear Device to Save Itself in 1967
Could Israel really have detonated a nuclear device on the eve of the Six Day War? The lead researcher for this explosive contention describes exposing what's still Israel’s biggest taboo: its nuclear capabilities
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/six-day-war-50-years/.premium-1.793800

Israel had secret plan to use nuclear bomb in Sinai during Six Day War, report reveals
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...pt-use-weapon-syria-jordan-iraq-a7774921.html

agreed,one word to describe it all is ----overhyped.....u mean to say in 6 years time,the arabs managed to learn from their mistakes,managed to stage a comeback that nearly bought israel to the brink of annihilation,and managed to fool and trick the jews this time round?so easy the arabs turned the tables around on them and send the jews packing back to where they belong....which is treblinka station.

so easy to brag and crow when u deal ur opponent a dirty blow,a sneaky uppercut and claim its a overwhelming victory,like the japs and pearl harbour,but once ur opponent shake off the initial
[video=youtube;icaeBubBbDg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icaeBubBbDg[/video]

 

[frenchbriefs]

[video=youtube;PNMaX9xsOFs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNMaX9xsOFs[/video]

 

[Papsmearer]

agreed,one word to describe it all is ----overhyped.....u mean to say in 6 years time,the arabs managed to learn from their mistakes,managed to stage a comeback that nearly bought israel to the brink of annihilation,and managed to fool and trick the jews this time round?so easy the arabs turned the tables around on them and send the jews packing back to where they belong....which is treblinka station.

so easy to brag and crow when u deal ur opponent a dirty blow,a sneaky uppercut and claim its a overwhelming victory,like the japs and pearl harbour,but once ur opponent shake off the initial
[video=youtube;icaeBubBbDg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icaeBubBbDg[/video]

Holy fuck, are you the dumbest
shit for brains poster here? I thought Stuffycunt was bad enough. Obviously the Arabs did not turn the table on the Jews. Obviously the Arabs did not learn from their mistakes in 6 years. You know how I know this? Because they fucking LOST the Yom Kippur War of 1973. How's that for an answer, idiot? The Israelis, even after giving them so many balls, and so many handicaps, still kicked the Arab's ass all over the place in 1973. If the Americans had not stopped them, they would have been in Damascus. And you say they are overhyped. Jeez.

 

[eatshitndie]

Holy fuck, are you the dumbest
shit for brains poster here? I thought Stuffycunt was bad enough. Obviously the Arabs did not turn the table on the Jews. Obviously the Arabs did not learn from their mistakes in 6 years. You know how I know this? Because they fucking LOST the Yom Kippur War of 1973. How's that for an answer, idiot? The Israelis, even after giving them so many balls, and so many handicaps, still kicked the Arab's ass all over the place in 1973. If the Americans had not stopped them, they would have been in Damascus. And you say they are overhyped. Jeez.

i remember 100 sho't centurions took a stand against 500 t-55's and t-62's on the syrian side in the valley of tears and held the line until reinforcements arrived.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Holy fuck, are you the dumbest
shit for brains poster here? I thought Stuffycunt was bad enough. Obviously the Arabs did not turn the table on the Jews. Obviously the Arabs did not learn from their mistakes in 6 years. You know how I know this? Because they fucking LOST the Yom Kippur War of 1973. How's that for an answer, idiot? The Israelis, even after giving them so many balls, and so many handicaps, still kicked the Arab's ass all over the place in 1973. If the Americans had not stopped them, they would have been in Damascus. And you say they are overhyped. Jeez.

cant help it if u had a shitty ally that u needed to carry on ur team.its like the pinoy feeder on ur dota team that keeps giving enemies free kills and frags while ur entire team is doing the best to win the game.

the yom kippur war was proof that the israelis were defeatable only human not gods,if eygpt had held their ground instead of going to their ally's help which accomplished nothing anyway and managed to get 200 of their tanks blown up.....their sam umbrella and anti tank bridgades would have given them a hell of a fight......instead of rushing blindly into dug in enemy position with no cover and straight into enemy fire......

its like a chess game,simply reset the pieces,reset the game and try again until u figure out how to make it work.

if israelis won the war why did they give up all the territory?they knew the next war could very well be the last.israelis only had one chance.....instead the bloody fool eygptians went and seek some dumbass peace accord.

even till this day,israelis are afraid to venture into lebanon,because the arabs trashed their ass.

 

[Papsmearer]

i remember 100 sho't centurions took a stand against 500 t-55's and t-62's on the syrian side in the valley of tears and held the line until reinforcements arrived.

But Frenchberak say the Israelis are over hyped mah. Better agree with the moron or he will lose face.

 

[Papsmearer]

the yom kippur war was proof that the israelis were defeatable only human not gods,.

Ok, which part did you not understand? THE ISRAELIS WERE NOT DEFEATED IN THE YOM KIPPUR WAR. The Israelis took 1600 sq km of Egyptian territory and were 100 km from Cairo. They also occupied 500 sq km of Syria and were 20 km from damascus. They were forced to give all that back when the Russians and Americans brokered a ceasefire. Does this sound like they were defeated?

 

[frenchbriefs]

Holy fuck, are you the dumbest
shit for brains poster here? I thought Stuffycunt was bad enough. Obviously the Arabs did not turn the table on the Jews. Obviously the Arabs did not learn from their mistakes in 6 years. You know how I know this? Because they fucking LOST the Yom Kippur War of 1973. How's that for an answer, idiot? The Israelis, even after giving them so many balls, and so many handicaps, still kicked the Arab's ass all over the place in 1973. If the Americans had not stopped them, they would have been in Damascus. And you say they are overhyped. Jeez.

the outcome of the war is irrelevant,much we have to learn from the process,that is the key to defeating the bloody jews and the west.

Surface to Air Missile Effectiveness in Past Conflicts

Major clashes involving the use of Soviet SAMs were the War of Attrition between Israel and Egypt, the 1973 Yom Kippur war, and the 1982 invasion of Lebanon.

The first Soviet SAMs in the region were 15 to 25 SA-2 batteries delivered during the late 1960s, but were not particularly effective. They were crewed by Egyptians with Soviet instructors, and some were captured in the Sinai advance of 1967. Syria during this period deployed the SA-2 and fielded 18 batteries, later supplemented by 16 SA-3 batteries.

In early 1970, the Soviets initiated Operation Caucasus, and deployed an overstrength division of Soviet PVO air defence troops, comprising 18 battalions in three brigades, led by General Smirnov of the PVO, and drawn from PVO units in the Dnepropetrovsk, Moscow, Leningrad and Belarus districts. Each battalion comprised four SA-3 batteries, a platoon of ZSU-23-4 SPAAGs and supporting SA-7 MANPADS teams. While these units were ostensibly “instructors”, they were dressed in Egyptian uniforms and provided full crewing for the deployed SAM systems. Through early 1970 the PVO units were deployed along the Suez Canal. Operational doctrine was similar to NVN, with batteries relocating frequently, and setting up ambushes for Israeli aircraft, using multiple mutually supporting batteries.

The Soviet S-125/SA-3 Goa was designed primarily to provide point defence of fixed target areas against attacking aircraft at low to medium altitudes. The command link guided weapon had a fixed thrust solid propellant rocket sustainer motor, and was supported typically by an X-band SNR-125 engagement radar, and a P-15 Flat Face UHF-Band acquisition radar, with respectable low altitude clutter rejection performance. Nominal redeployment time for a battery was several hours, not unlike the S-75/SA-2, dependent in part on battery crew proficiency, and in part on terrain, as a large convoy of vehicles was required for movements.

In subsequent engagements against the Israelis, the Soviets are claimed to have shot down five Israeli aircraft using the SA-3, making for a cumulative total of 22 lost to SA-2, SA-3 and AAA during this period.

The Egyptians sought to retake their 1967 losses in 1973, and to support that campaign procured three brigades of SA-6 Gainful, comprising 18 batteries. Unlike Soviet batteries using the “shoot and scoot” 1S12 Long Track radar, Egyptian SA-6 batteries mostly used the semi-mobile P-15 Flat Face and P-15M Squat Eye UHF radars. Syria is claimed to have procured two brigades.

When the Egyptians crossed the Suez Canal, and the Syrians stormed the Golan Heights, their ground forces and strategic targets were protected by SAM and AAA units. It is widely acknowledged that the Israelis suffered heavy losses of aircraft during the fighting in 1973. Exactly how many were lost to SAMs, and to which type of SAM, has been less well documented. Israeli public claims are that 303 aircraft were lost in combat, and other sources identify 40 of these as lost to SAMs, and between 4 and 12 to Arab fighters. This puts most Israeli losses as a result of low altitude AAA fire, and emulates the pattern observed in SEA – SAMs denying the use of high and medium altitude airspace, driving aircraft down into the envelope of high density AAA.

The Soviets were cast out of Egypt in early 1976, followed by Sadat’s peace treaty with Israel and Egypt’s realignment away from conflict with the West. Chinese and Western contractors took over support of the Soviet SAM systems.

 

[GoldenDragon]

Hindsight is 20/20.
If the Arabs were sabre rattling and moving troops and armour into the SInai, they had better be prepared to fight. They underestimated the siege mentality of Israel. Israel will take every single opportunity it can to reduce the ability of its arab neighbours to wage war on them. The pre-emptive strike was too good to give up. The arabs talk too much. If you want to wipe out an enemy and push him into the sea, don't talk about it on the radio and make long speeches about it. Just do it.

Yup. Bellicose speeches fr enemy only escalated crisis n resulted in miscalculation fr both ends.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Ok, which part did you not understand? THE ISRAELIS WERE NOT DEFEATED IN THE YOM KIPPUR WAR. The Israelis took 1600 sq km of Egyptian territory and were 100 km from Cairo. They also occupied 500 sq km of Syria and were 20 km from damascus. They were forced to give all that back when the Russians and Americans brokered a ceasefire. Does this sound like they were defeated?

results are irrelevant......israelis came so close to the brink of defeat.egyptians made strategic mistakes due to obligations,that cost them everything.

wonder why they were forced to give up all that land and even more lol,the israelis ended up with less than they began and were pushed back to their own borders......u call that winning???lmao......all these was for their own good.

1600 sq km of territory?ooooooh whats that?the size of 3 singapores?500sq km of syria????omfg!!!!i bet those twats couldnt even hold on to those puny territories if they wanted to.