Come in & watch CNA political forum, opposition beat PAP hands down

Frankiestine · Apr 3, 2011

Sideswipe said:
PAP are not going to lose a lot of seats with 66% popular vote. In FPTP system, if a party had a landslide 60% popular vote, they should expect to win at least 90% of seats.

GRC not constitutional? you vote for the party based on the candidates and their party. if you want to differ between candidates and party, that's your problem.

Show me any other constitution on this planets that votes in politicians collectively.

Frankiestine · Apr 3, 2011

Leongsam said:
Does the constitution specifically state that voting for an individual is a right of every singaporean?

Have you ever voted in the capacity as a Singaporean?

Sideswipe · Apr 3, 2011

Frankiestine said:
Show me any other constitution on this planets that votes in politicians collectively.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dem_ele_sys-democracy-electoral-system
Djibouti, Ecuador, Lebanon, Senegal, Tunisia and Singapore all party block system in parliamentary elections. ( undemocratic regimes of course )

60%+ popular vote, party will win at least 90% seats - proven fact in plurality elections.

GRC or SMC - it's the same, if the electorate have a chance to vote, they have a choice. candidates over party or party over candidates. chose whatever is more important to you. it's still the voters' choice.

scroobal · Apr 3, 2011

This chap does not understand how the whole thing works. He did the same with proportional representation.

He probably does not realise that US Presidential Elections is not direct voting either. To him apple, orange , rambutan etc all fruits so when you ask him whats the difference between a granny smith and a gala , he will tell you about Mandarin oranges and then he will talk about politics in general.

Frankiestine said:
Show me any other constitution on this planets that votes in politicians collectively.

Leongsam · Apr 4, 2011

Frankiestine said:
Show me any other constitution on this planets that votes in politicians collectively.

All proportional representation schemes involve a "party vote" principle. Many Western democracies operate along these lines. There are numerous variants but all are based upon casting a vote for a "party team" instead of an "individual".

In Singapore, a GRC is equivalent to a party list. You decide which party best serves your interests, take into consideration the team that has been assembled, and vote accordingly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation

<table class="wikitable"><tbody><tr><th>Country</th> <th>Type</th> </tr> <tr> <td>

Albania</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Algeria</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Angola</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Australia</td> <td>For Senate only, Single Transferable Vote</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Austria</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Argentina</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Aruba</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Belgium</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Bolivia</td> <td>Mixed Member Majoritarian</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Brazil</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Bulgaria</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Burkina Faso</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Burundi</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Cambodia</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Cape Verde</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Colombia</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Costa Rica</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Croatia</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Curaçao</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Cyprus</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Czech Republic</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Democratic Republic of the Congo</td> <td>Mixed member proportional</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Denmark</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Dominican Republic</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Equatorial Guinea</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Estonia</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Finland</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Germany</td> <td>Mixed member proportional</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Greece</td> <td>Party list (with plurality bonus)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Guinea-Bissau</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Guyana</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Hungary</td> <td>Mixed Member Majoritarian</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Iceland</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

India</td> <td>For Upper House (Rajya Sabha) only, Single Transferable Vote by State Legislatures</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Indonesia</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Iraq</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Ireland</td> <td>Single Transferable Vote</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Israel</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Italy</td> <td>Party list (with plurality bonus for coalitions)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Japan</td> <td>Mixed Member Majoritarian</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Latvia</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Lesotho</td> <td>Mixed Member Majoritarian</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Liberia</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Liechtenstein</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Luxembourg</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Malta</td> <td>Single Transferable Vote</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Mexico</td> <td>Mixed Member Majoritarian</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Moldova</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Namibia</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Nepal</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Netherlands</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

New Caledonia</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

New Zealand</td> <td>Mixed Member Proportional</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Nicaragua</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td> Northern Ireland</td> <td>Single Transferable Vote (for regional assembly only)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Norway</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Paraguay</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Peru</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Poland</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Portugal</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Romania</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Russia</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

San Marino</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Sao Tome and Principe</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Scotland</td> <td>Additional Member System (for national assembly only)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Sint Maarten</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Slovakia</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Slovenia</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

South Africa</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

South Korea</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Spain</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Sri Lanka</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Suriname</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Sweden</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Switzerland</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Taiwan</td> <td>Mixed Member Majoritarian</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Thailand</td> <td>Mixed Member Majoritarian</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Turkey</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Ukraine</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Uruguay</td> <td>Party list</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Venezuela</td> <td>Mixed Member Majoritarian</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Wales</td> <td>Additional Member System (for national assembly only)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Wallis and Futuna</td> <td>Party list</td></tr></tbody></table>

ivebert · Apr 4, 2011

The SDA Malay, whatever that flea is named, disgusts me with his half-baked English (Singlish)

What is more disgusting is that he has a script with him and still can't string a proper sentence together

My 7 year old nephew is more eloquent than him :biggrin:

butoh6050 · Apr 4, 2011

Yeah! That Suki character from SDA is an embarrassment. I cringe when he starts to speak. Lina is also not so impressive.

Sideswipe · Apr 4, 2011

Leongsam said:
In Singapore, a GRC is equivalent to a party list. You decide which party best serves your interests, take into consideration the team that has been assembled, and vote accordingly.

GRC system is party block vote. ( plurality )

streetsmart73 · Apr 4, 2011

myfoot123 said:
YOu can give Tan Pei Lin 45 minutes in the forum and Dr Chee Soon Juan just 15 minutes to counter. He will send her crying for Papa Mama after the show and than the whole PAP gang will come to support her emotionally and CNA will call off such future programmes to save PAP more face.

hi there

1. pls don't waste air time on some trival matters over rina!
2. what else do you expect from some flat-chested?
3. "i don't know what to say"

sense · Apr 4, 2011

Re: Come in & watch CNA political forum, opposition beat PAP hands down- Observations

Jack Neo said:
Well done

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/gecountdown/forumvideos.htm

Based on my personal observation of how the 6 candidates performed:

1. Statistics can be real or imaginary:

Tharman: is able to cite seemingly realistic statistics, which is not surprising such he has direct access to Dept of Stats.
Josephine: is also able to cite seemingly realistic statistics, which is not surprising such she also has direct access to Dept of Stats.
SPP Lina: cited imaginary statistics a few times, unreliable candidate
WP Gerald: is able also cite a few seemingly realistic statistics, may be anecdotal (risky).
SDA Nazem: cited imaginary statistics a couple of time, should do his homework properly
SDP Vincent: too eager to be the opposition force that he actually misinterpreted stats & facts that was stated by the PAP; Vincent needs to put his doctoral level skills to actual work, ie. think, interpret, analyse and apply, instead of hear and shoot.

2. Body language & Speech:

Tharman: stable but a bit too solemn
Josephine: stable and seemingly friendly, with genuine smiles along the way
SPP Lina: too may unnecessary words such as "you know.... you know..." but notable smiles.
WP Gerald: stable but a bit too solemn; seemingly honest chap; try to relax, learn from Josephine
SDA Nazem: struggle with language and a bit too solemn, possibly due to nervousness
SDP Vincent: the only person who seat slanted - leaning too frequently on the arm of the chair; lots of "aaa, aaa, aaa, ..." from start of the hour till the end – disappointing.

[1] If I am Opp bias, this would be my ranking (from best to worse):

1. WP Gerald :smile:

(pls smile at times, it would help)
2. Josephine
3. Tharman
4. Nazem
5. Lina; Vincent :(

Many who are pro opposition have rated Vincent first. But, not me. Yes, while Vincent did managed to deliver a few blows at the PAP, a few of such blows are either based on his confusion/recklessness (eg. the 40% GST portion...), or he wanted to appear clever (eg. by trying to suggest some people, eg. CSJ are not co-authors). Well, the definition of author as "one that originates or creates" (Merriam-Webster dictionary)... many of CSJ lunatic acts certainly makes is an interesting co-author in the story of Singapore. For me, the nail in the coffin for Vincent would be his body language; I don't trust this fellow and I wouldn't be surprise if he does something stupid/reckless in the future.

As for Lina, am afraid that she does not have what it takes to be a politician, if she wants her party to survive, she should honourably give chance to those who are more competent within her party. While the political 'succession' works for some families, from father to son; as such it would have been a lovely Singapore story (yes, she and her husband are also co-authors) from husband to wife, but Lina is simply not up to it, sad but true.

As for Nazeem, while his English is not as good as the other candidates, in terms of competency, he is above Lina. In terms of sincerity to help his people, he is above Vincent, which is why am rating him above Lina & Vincent. Nazeem, the qualifications of the PAP candidates may all outshine you, but you seems to have the heart to serve the people, which is also as important. Just be mindful not to oppose for the sake of it (like Vincent).

[2] If I am PAP bias, this would be my ranking (from best to worse):

1. Josephine
2. Tharman
3. WP Gerald
4. Nazem
5. Lina; Vincent :(

Cheers,
Sense & Sensibility.

Josephine, Tharman, Melissa, Nazem, Vincent, Lina, Gerald

drifter · Apr 19, 2011

Re: Come in & watch CNA political forum, opposition beat PAP hands down- Observations

sense ...i want to hear your views on PAP candidates ... :wink:

sense · Apr 19, 2011

Re: Come in & watch CNA political forum, opposition beat PAP hands down- Observations

drifter said:
sense ...i want to hear your views on PAP candidates ...

Which candidates?

drifter · Apr 19, 2011

who is that lau char bo ? who send her there !!! fuck!!!

drifter · Apr 19, 2011

Re: Come in & watch CNA political forum, opposition beat PAP hands down- Observations

sense said:
Which candidates?

all of PAP candidates ..

Cestbon · Apr 19, 2011

Re: Come in & watch CNA political forum, opposition beat PAP hands down- Observations

sense said:
Which candidates?

1. LKY
2. GCT
3. LHL
4. WKS
5. MBT
6. VB
7. Cow
8. Yakult

sense · Apr 19, 2011

Re: Come in & watch CNA political forum, opposition beat PAP hands down- Observations

Cestbon said:
1. LKY
2. GCT
3. LHL
4. WKS
5. MBT
6. VB
7. Cow
8. Yakult

Not interested to comment on most of the above, except for a brief comment on VB whom I believe will have an extraordinary career in PAP and will do much good for all Singaporeans.

Personally, I have my concerns over TPL as a walkover candidate. While she should be given an opportunity to serve the people - as per her wishes, but to be spoon fed into the parliament is disappointing - am very certain that there are many other more suitable (competent with a heart) candidates among her peers, were they given the opportunity? TPL can always served the people in other ways...

Well, in view that her fate is inevitable, I look forward to seeing her performance in the GRC that she will walk into, and if she does not perform within 12 months time, PAP should walk it's talk regarding meritocracy.

Let's see...

drifter · Apr 19, 2011

Re: Come in & watch CNA political forum, opposition beat PAP hands down- Observations

sense said:
Not interested to comment on most of the above, except for a brief comment on VB whom I believe will have an extraordinary career in PAP and will do much good for all Singaporeans.

Personally, I have my concerns over TPL as a walkover candidate. While she should be given an opportunity to serve the people - as per her wishes, but to be spoon fed into the parliament is disappointing - am very certain that there are many other more suitable (competent with a heart) candidates among her peers, were they given the opportunity? TPL can always served the people in other ways...

Well, in view that her fate is inevitable, I look forward to seeing her performance in the GRC that she will walk into, and if she does not perform within 12 months time, PAP should walk it's talk regarding meritocracy.

Let's see...

no comments ? hahaha...expected ..that settles everything ... :wink:

drifter · Apr 19, 2011

Re: Come in & watch CNA political forum, opposition beat PAP hands down- Observations

we got a new dog here .....wheres the owner ? please come in .... :wink:

sense · Apr 19, 2011

Re: Come in & watch CNA political forum, opposition beat PAP hands down- Observations

drifter said:
we got a new dog here .....wheres the owner ? please come in ....

"Not interested to comment" vs "no comments" is not the same. Have fun with your typical lunatic acts of an animal. Period.

drifter · Apr 19, 2011

Re: Come in & watch CNA political forum, opposition beat PAP hands down- Observations

sense said:
"Not interested to comment" vs "no comments" is not the same. Have fun with your typical lunatic animal acts. Period.

so why are you so interested to comment opps party :wink:

as usually a dog that dont know how to cover his own track ...your master never send you to those farm in pasir ris for training before coming here ? :wink:

.

Come in & watch CNA political forum, opposition beat PAP hands down

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