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Crumbling of Singapore?

neddy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Would you advise young Singaporeans to stay in SG or migrate to aus if they have the opportunity?

I still feel that ...
If the young want to have a future, look beyond the national boundaries. It is still an individual's choice.

Singapore
- despite the good things Sam mentioned, has no backup plans for residents who fall off the work treadmill, there is also a bad retirement scheme and an even worst health system (you can die but you cannot fall sick)
- it is a good place to earn money, but NS takes up the best time of the youth and reservist is a bother. Up to 30yo are the critical phase for a high achiever.

Australia
- The system here is such that you can basically do anything you want. If you are smart, good for you. If you are hardworking, you cannot go hungry.
- The country takes care of its weakest, at the expense of the large middle class.
- The retirement scheme is highly rated, and as long as the government open the immigration to address the demographic issues, it is still possible to get a decent retirement here.
- The health system has a safety net. Only when a person need to go for a bypass, then that poor bloke will realise how the significant cost of healthcare in Singapore can burn up the his retirement fund. When I checked on this workmate of mine, he told me that his Medicare + private health fund took care of everything. He use this term, no out-of-pocket expenses!! No gap payment.
- There is better work-leisure balance and a much better variety of REAL leisure to pursue. Life is not about making money all the time, and using that money to go shopping to de-stress. It is a real shocker that Singaporeans and Hongkongers will take leave from work to work from home!!! Is this a good quality of life? Is this how I want to live my life. No way!!

While the Gen Y aussies will need a parent's help to get a foothold into aussie property market, but they are facing better work opportunities when the Babyboomers retire. (Gen X aussies will curse because they live in the shadow of the Babyboomers who took the top jobs.)

I still feel that the best years for Australia are still ahead. There are the tradtitional resistance to change and bumps along the way. There has to be, we have 20 Good Years and a recession is overdue. How these 20 Good Years came about is the bold reform to the Banana republic horrors. I still remember that at that time, Malaysians migrants pack up their bags and return to help Mahatair achieve his Malaysia Boleh Vision 2020.
What happened subsequently is a testimony to the Aussies who re-invent the country that Lee Kuan Yew called, the White Trash of Asia.

With the shadow of the causes of the global financial tsunami still affecting world's growth and the coming Lost decade, Australia may be about to enter its most economically challenging time, but IMF and the economists seems to think that we will do well. Is Australia luckier than the rest of the West.
I heard that retrenchment has already started in Singapore.

My own experience tells me to apply for a PR visa overseas, so that if things really get tough back home, I can seek out opportunities elsewhere.

I am seeing more young Koreans, Indians, Irish .. etc in town.


- - - - -
UK young travellers heading to Australia to escape British economic gloom
Written by Ozgur Tore
SUNDAY, 06 NOVEMBER 2011 11:48
In 2005-06 the number of Australian working holiday visas granted to young people from the UK was 28,281. In 2009–10 this figure stood at 37,056.

Young British people apply for and are granted more working holiday visas for Australia than citizens of any other country.

So why do so many Brits want to head out to Oz on a working holiday visa? Well, Great Britain comes a measly 28th place in the UN’s Human Development Index, while Australia is ranked second. The countries on this list are indexed according to quality of life factors including life expectancy, education and standard of living. The quality of life in Australia is definitely perceived by young people to be attractive.

Add to this the fact that the youth unemployment rate in the UK is currently the highest on record, with almost one million young people aged 16 - 24 out of work. That’s nearly 20% youth unemployment. In Australia youth unemployment stands at 11.5%, with a low overall unemployment rate of just over 5%. So in Australia, as a young person you are more likely to find work, albeit temporary work if you have a working holiday visa. Then there is the weather, the lack of language barrier, and the feeling that Australia is more welcoming to young people than the UK. The Australian working holiday visa programme currently welcomes applicants from 19 different countries. The British version offers working holiday visas to young people from just 5 countries, one of which is Monaco.

Rebecca Jordan of work and travel gap year specialist website http://www.gapwork.com believes that "…as austerity measures in the UK bite, and a double dip recession looms, more and more young British people will be heading to countries like Australia and New Zealand for a year to work, travel and get work experience. We are definitely seeing an increase in enquiries from young people who just can’t find work or even decent work experience at home at the moment. You don't have to be a student or on a gap year to get a working holiday visa, you just have to be aged between 18-30, have enough cash behind you to cover your flights and a few months living expenses, and want to bail out of Britain!"
 
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TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
with the ever rising standards of living, i can only say that their conditions had improved slightly but not fast enough in catching the next wave.

you mean cost of living or standard of living?

so you think the bottom rungs are taken care of and are coping well?
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
if your advice is sought, considering his well being and future, wld you recommend that a young Singaporean migrate to NZ or stay in SG?

I can't answer that for the simple reason that there is no "one size fits all" response. It all depends upon what a particular young person wants out of life.

Each country has its strengths and its weaknesses. The outdoor type who aren't materialistic would probably love NZ. The high flyers in the financial world would view NZ as a sleepy backwater and a waste of time.
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I can't answer that for the simple reason that there is no "one size fits all" response. It all depends upon what a particular young person wants out of life.

Each country has its strengths and its weaknesses. The outdoor type who aren't materialistic would probably love NZ. The high flyers in the financial world would view NZ as a sleepy backwater and a waste of time.

The same argument applies when it comes to commenting abt SG...So why are you so adamant that SG is a "wonderful" country? To you it may be so..but to others, SG may not be. So dont judge Singaporeans who view SG differently
 

psy83

Alfrescian
Loyal
Btw on the 60% who voted for them.
Who they are.

. Honestly belive that PAP is the best.
. PAP Loyals.
. Civil Servants.(PAP in power is their rice bowl, Kiasi cos they scare the PAP will know they didnt vote for them and they wont get bonus or get fired)
. Kiasi Sinkies (We all know about the fear that sinkies have about not voting in the govt for fear of Not getting Bonus(Even if they work for private companies <---A 25yr old Smart diploma holder told me "I heard we might not get bonus" * A 25yr old saying this ar.. What do you think the older generation would be thinking cos we know they are more kiasi. Fear of not getting School place for themselves or Children, Housing issues, Diffuclity in getting jobs <---All this myths was going on pretty intense right up the day of Election) .... I just came back from aus last year with extreme anti-PAP views and all my Friends(Neighborhood friends of more then 15 was shocked and didnt know shit about Politics or about going against PAP, They were extremely fearful and we are talking about a bunch of Diploma/degree holders in their early 20s to late 20s who wont give a shit about starting a fight just because of a few hard knocks in the street/field soccer pitch) Many did not surf online and didnt know the sentiment that was going on about the GOVERNMENT AND i had to drill all of them to vote against PAP after months of constantly blasting them for hours, did they slowly start to get less fear-full and yes they all had this stupid fear of housing issue etc. if they dont vote for PAP.. If this are Young adults thinking in this manner, What do you think the kiasi older generation sinkies is thinking, We got to know that anti-pap sentiments started only about 6months b4 the elections on MSM/forums and b4 that it was hush hush b4 1 by 1 started abusing the government and soon Mob mentiality came into play.

Then there are those New citizens who voted for PAP who gave them citizenship plus this people are coming from 3rd world countries and sees our government as 10times better then the govt from birth place.

Then you have those well off Sinkies who basically doesnt want their boat to be rocked.

The no. would have been VERY different if Anti-pap sentiments didnt kick off In MSN(Yahoo)/forums/T.R only about 4 to 6months prior to the Elections. T.R being exposed by MSN as Rebels in-fact back-fired to make people aware of this Site plus Yahoo(Which most people have as their homepage) slanting slightly away from PAP. I can confidently say that if we do a Snap Elections today, The no. would be 60% opposition and 40% Pap.. Cos 20% didnt know anti PAP sentiments and were still living with Myths(Now they know that all those Housing problems, bonus not getting etc. are in-fact myths)
 
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TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I still feel that ...
If the young want to have a future, look beyond the national boundaries. It is still an individual's choice.

Singapore
- despite the good things Sam mentioned, has no backup plans for residents who fall off the work treadmill, there is also a bad retirement scheme and an even worst health system (you can die but you cannot fall sick)
- it is a good place to earn money, but NS takes up the best time of the youth and reservist is a bother. Up to 30yo are the critical phase for a high achiever.

Australia
- The system here is such that you can basically do anything you want. If you are smart, good for you. If you are hardworking, you cannot go hungry.
- The country takes care of its weakest, at the expense of the large middle class.
- The retirement scheme is highly rated, and as long as the government open the immigration to address the demographic issues, it is still possible to get a decent retirement here.
- The health system has a safety net. Only when a person need to go for a bypass, then that poor bloke will realise how the significant cost of healthcare in Singapore can burn up the his retirement fund. When I checked on this workmate of mine, he told me that his Medicare + private health fund took care of everything. He use this term, no out-of-pocket expenses!! No gap payment.
- There is better work-leisure balance and a much better variety of REAL leisure to pursue. Life is not about making money all the time, and using that money to go shopping to de-stress. It is a real shocker that Singaporeans and Hongkongers will take leave from work to work from home!!! Is this a good quality of life? Is this how I want to live my life. No way!!

While the Gen Y aussies will need a parent's help to get a foothold into aussie property market, but they are facing better work opportunities when the Babyboomers retire. (Gen X aussies will curse because they live in the shadow of the Babyboomers who took the top jobs.)

I still feel that the best years for Australia are still ahead. There are the tradtitional resistance to change and bumps along the way. There has to be, we have 20 Good Years and a recession is overdue. How these 20 Good Years came about is the bold reform to the Banana republic horrors. I still remember that at that time, Malaysians migrants pack up their bags and return to help Mahatair achieve his Malaysia Boleh Vision 2020.
What happened subsequently is a testimony to the Aussies who re-invent the country that Lee Kuan Yew called, the White Trash of Asia.

With the shadow of the causes of the global financial tsunami still affecting world's growth and the coming Lost decade, Australia may be about to enter its most economically challenging time, but IMF and the economists seems to think that we will do well. Is Australia luckier than the rest of the West.
I heard that retrenchment has already started in Singapore.

My own experience tells me to apply for a PR visa overseas, so that if things really get tough back home, I can seek out opportunities elsewhere.

.


- - - - -

Good advice ..Thanks
 

psy83

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sorry for the spelling, grammar, construction of sentence, i was typing it too quickly and just shot everything automatically.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
The pap speaks accolades of its achievements but kept quiet about its failures

EVERY SINGLE GOVT IN THE WORLD does exactly the same thing.

If you think the PAP is bad, just wait till you hear the gobbledygook that political parties in NZ come up with in order claim credit when things go right and pass the buck when things go wrong.

The party in power usually goes a step further than the PAP and blames the opposition for the fiascos that occur on a periodic basis.
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
EVERY SINGLE GOVT IN THE WORLD does exactly the same thing.

Disagree. Did the Aus govt let in 25% of SG's population of cheap foreign workers within a few years?

Did the aus govt not carry out stringent checks on people applying for PR and thereby letting in people with fake qualifications.

So dont exaggerate and misinform...not every govt does what the pap do...
 
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TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If you think the PAP is bad, just wait till you hear the gobbledygook that political parties in NZ come up with in order claim credit when things go right and pass the buck when things go wrong.

The party in power usually goes a step further than the PAP and blames the opposition for the fiascos that occur on a periodic basis.

I dont compare pap with the nz govt. I rate pap for how it governs SG regardless of how the nz govt governs nz. and the pap is a bad govt.
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
EVERY SINGLE GOVT IN THE WORLD does exactly the same thing.

If you think the PAP is bad, just wait till you hear the gobbledygook that political parties in NZ come up with in order claim credit when things go right and pass the buck when things go wrong.

The party in power usually goes a step further than the PAP and blames the opposition for the fiascos that occur on a periodic basis.

if you think the nz govt is bad, it doesnt mean that the pap govt is good...
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
EVERY SINGLE GOVT IN THE WORLD does exactly the same thing.

If you think the PAP is bad, just wait till you hear the gobbledygook that political parties in NZ come up with in order claim credit when things go right and pass the buck when things go wrong.

The party in power usually goes a step further than the PAP and blames the opposition for the fiascos that occur on a periodic basis.

We have fundamentally different opinions. I think pap govt is bad based on what it does, regardless of how other govts fare. You think NZ govt is bad and therefore, by comparison, pap is good.
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
EVERY SINGLE GOVT IN THE WORLD does exactly the same thing.

If you think the PAP is bad, just wait till you hear the gobbledygook that political parties in NZ come up with in order claim credit when things go right and pass the buck when things go wrong.

The party in power usually goes a step further than the PAP and blames the opposition for the fiascos that occur on a periodic basis.

All we need is to wait for the next two SG general elections to know whether Singaporeans agree with you that pap is good...

if pap manages to secure 60% for 2016 and 2021..then you are right

if pap's vote goes below 60%, then most singaporeans agree with me that the pap has governed badly...
 

psy83

Alfrescian
Loyal
EVERY SINGLE GOVT IN THE WORLD does exactly the same thing.

If you think the PAP is bad, just wait till you hear the gobbledygook that political parties in NZ come up with in order claim credit when things go right and pass the buck when things go wrong.

The party in power usually goes a step further than the PAP and blames the opposition for the fiascos that occur on a periodic basis.

Politics brother Politics.. PAP cant do that yet, Cos there are only 6 opposition sitting there without any powers :biggrin:
 

psy83

Alfrescian
Loyal
Ah Leong im pretty sad and surprised when i took a look in this Thread, I thought you were Anarchy all the way bro~~~ You are getting old.
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
ok, in that case rising standards of living coupled with rising costs of living. happy? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

nothing to do with happy nor unhappy. you are not close enough to me to make me happy nor unhappy..dont be too presumptous

just wanting to clarify and know what you mean because i am confused by your ambiguity
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Disagree. Did the Aus govt let in 20% of the population of cheap foreign workers with a few years?
Are you kidding me. There are probably more fakes in Australia than there are in Singapore. The OZ govt was so naive that they came up with a scheme whereby all that was required for residency was a term deposit of AUD60,000 in an Australian account. There were no conditions attached. It could be withdrawn immediately upon arrival.

Syndicates realised there was huge money to be earned from this ludicrous requirement and hundreds of thousands of half baked, unqualified migrants gained residency using the same $60,000 recycled over and over and over again.

In Sydney, the immigrant Lebanese community have caused far more problems than any of the recent arrivals to Singapore. When Indian students were attacked in OZ, the rest of the world immediately assumed that white OZ trash were responsible. The reality was a lot different. You can read about it at http://islamicterrorism.wordpress.c...gangs-attacking-indian-students-in-australia/

If you're up to date in your general knowledge, you would have heard about the race riots at Cronulla in recent times. Google for more info and you'll find the source of the problem. Again, it was not caused by white OZ racism. It was, once again, the Lebs.

I have no problems debating issues with you but when you start talking about how good things are in foreign lands which you obviously know very little about, it just makes you look really stupid. I lived in OZ for 10 WHOLE years and I can assure you the OZ govt has made more blunders in regards to immigration than Singapore has and they started a whole lot earlier too.
 
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