Opposition and leadership after GE

[3_M]

If NSP insist on staying in the east, then 3 corner fight with WP will be ineviitable. I think it unwise for NSP to go head on with WP in the East. WP had already indicated their interest in Tampines and I suspect inorder to protect Joo Chiat from being absorbed into MP GRC, it possible they will also be eyeing on Marine Parade.

My suggestion is NSP withdraw from the East and consolidate in the West. In this way, limited resources are better deploy and also this is a region where WP will not likely contest in the next 2 GE. Hence it will buy NSP and other parties some time. If they can build up their base in the West, then it will be difficult for WP to extend reach in this part of the Island as they will be consider the underdog by then.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Many people may talk about sour grapes and such but to look at WP objectively, we must admit that WP is the one which shows the cracks FIRST among all other opposition parties.

Some may think that the departure of Eric Tan is an "isolated case" but it has long drawn implications among the ranks and files within WP members. Eric Tan didn't suffer "one sided defeat" but rather he has his support base even within the CEC. There are many implications to this episode.

For example, what will happen to the Moulmein-Kallang team which was sent to "Chope place" and force out NSP? If even Eric Tan with certain support base in CEC can be forced out, what will happen to this team? Thus, it is strange that the thread starter didn't want to list WP at all.

SDP really looks promising indeed but yes, it will has its own problems as well. Integration is one big puzzle piece for sustainability.

Similarly NSP is not without its problems as well. Integration is also part of the priority. Any party with a substantial number of new members who are playing key roles will face the problem of integration. However the thread starter has exaggerated NSP's problems. The so call "ex-Reform" people only form a small, though significant part, of the whole NSP. NSP is not that small as he thinks.

If you look at the so call Nicole Seah's effect, it seems that it only applies to Marine Parade. Admittedly, some of the constituencies that NSP contested did not fair well. It just shows that the Nicolce Seah's effect does not really apply throughout NSP's teams. Else other teams

However, beside Marine Parade GRC, Tampines GRC and Mountbatten has pretty good results as well. In fact, these teams have BETTER results than TWO GRCs (Nee Soon GRC & Moulmein Kallang GRC) and TWO SMCs (Pungol East & Sengkang West) which WP has contested.

Thus in short, it is not fair to assert that NSP is all about Nicole Seah. Yes, Nicole has done very well against GCT and proven that GCT isn't that popular as many thought. I would say that to be fair, GCT is right. The boundary redrawing has "fixed" him in certain sense; he is getting all those bad apples from all over the places.

Furthermore, as compared to previous GEs, NSP has the BEST results so far even though it did not win any seats. Especially when we are comparing to GE2006, we are having teams moving forward much better than some of WP's wards. In GE2006, none of NSP teams (under SDA) has better results than any of WP's teams. i.e. WP's brand premium is eroding.

Thus if some people think that WP could just walk into any other opposition parties' turf just like that, think again. Unless WP's best talents are willing to go into 3 corner fights with other parties else, there is really no certainty that WP will do better than other parties.

SDP is the party to watch in the coming 5 years. It has gained the most substantial jump in rating as compared to previous GEs. Whether it has recovered from its doldrums to establish itself as a force to be reckon with, will depend on what happens next in the coming years.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

If NSP insist on staying in the east, then 3 corner fight with WP will be ineviitable. I think it unwise for NSP to go head on with WP in the East. WP had already indicated their interest in Tampines and I suspect inorder to protect Joo Chiat from being absorbed into MP GRC, it possible they will also be eyeing on Marine Parade.

In a 3 corner fight, individual candidates always count. As explained before, party branding will only carry you so far and in fact, there is a erosion of WP's brand premium. This doesn't mean that WP's branding is not growing but rather, its premium over other opposition parties like NSP has eroded significantly.

Just like football, politics is rather fluid. It is just premature to talk about 3 corner fights now but one thing for sure, NSP will be stepping up its operations in the East.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[karmabear]

Many people may talk about sour grapes and such but to look at WP objectively, we must admit that WP is the one which shows the cracks FIRST among all other opposition parties.

Boss, your kitchen is on fire and you are commenting that other people burnt the toast. :p Please stop commenting on other parties and concentrate on NSP. It is unbecoming of a Sec-Gen of a significant political party. Please remember to uphold the dignity of your office.

You have a lot of work to do internally and need to bring many various personalities together. I am not sure you are temperamentally suited for this task. Please be honest with yourself and if you cannot, please identify and delegate. You come across as a bull in a china shop when dealing with people issues. Maybe your strength is in strategy etc...

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear GMS

If the WP cracks splits fucks it up like the SDP after 1991 , then the opposition is screwed whether nsp rp and or sdp. All parties are now in the same boat. So Eric sadly has left like GMS CTL post 2006. but the party will evolve has to evolve for everyone's sake.


Locke

Many people may talk about sour grapes and such but to look at WP objectively, we must admit that WP is the one which shows the cracks FIRST among all other opposition parties.

Some may think that the departure of Eric Tan is an "isolated case" but it has long drawn implications among the ranks and files within WP members. Eric Tan didn't suffer "one sided defeat" but rather he has his support base even within the CEC. There are many implications to this episode.

For example, what will happen to the Moulmein-Kallang team which was sent to "Chope place" and force out NSP? If even Eric Tan with certain support base in CEC can be forced out, what will happen to this team? Thus, it is strange that the thread starter didn't want to list WP at all.

SDP really looks promising indeed but yes, it will has its own problems as well. Integration is one big puzzle piece for sustainability.

Similarly NSP is not without its problems as well. Integration is also part of the priority. Any party with a substantial number of new members who are playing key roles will face the problem of integration. However the thread starter has exaggerated NSP's problems. The so call "ex-Reform" people only form a small, though significant part, of the whole NSP. NSP is not that small as he thinks.

If you look at the so call Nicole Seah's effect, it seems that it only applies to Marine Parade. Admittedly, some of the constituencies that NSP contested did not fair well. It just shows that the Nicolce Seah's effect does not really apply throughout NSP's teams. Else other teams

However, beside Marine Parade GRC, Tampines GRC and Mountbatten has pretty good results as well. In fact, these teams have BETTER results than TWO GRCs (Nee Soon GRC & Moulmein Kallang GRC) and TWO SMCs (Pungol East & Sengkang West) which WP has contested.

Thus in short, it is not fair to assert that NSP is all about Nicole Seah. Yes, Nicole has done very well against GCT and proven that GCT isn't that popular as many thought. I would say that to be fair, GCT is right. The boundary redrawing has "fixed" him in certain sense; he is getting all those bad apples from all over the places.

Furthermore, as compared to previous GEs, NSP has the BEST results so far even though it did not win any seats. Especially when we are comparing to GE2006, we are having teams moving forward much better than some of WP's wards. In GE2006, none of NSP teams (under SDA) has better results than any of WP's teams. i.e. WP's brand premium is eroding.

Thus if some people think that WP could just walk into any other opposition parties' turf just like that, think again. Unless WP's best talents are willing to go into 3 corner fights with other parties else, there is really no certainty that WP will do better than other parties.

SDP is the party to watch in the coming 5 years. It has gained the most substantial jump in rating as compared to previous GEs. Whether it has recovered from its doldrums to establish itself as a force to be reckon with, will depend on what happens next in the coming years.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Amakusa Kourin]

And losing to MBT, the most unpopular PAP candidate.

Maciam no different from PAP, find a scapegoat to distract own problems.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Boss, your kitchen is on fire and you are commenting that other people burnt the toast. :p Please stop commenting on other parties and concentrate on NSP. It is unbecoming of a Sec-Gen of a significant political party. Please remember to uphold the dignity of your office.

You have a lot of work to do internally and need to bring many various personalities together. I am not sure you are temperamentally suited for this task. Please be honest with yourself and if you cannot, please identify and delegate. You come across as a bull in a china shop when dealing with people issues. Maybe your strength is in strategy etc...

I always consider myself as a political observer, so to speak. And I already say, NSP will have its challenges of integration. No doubt about that.

I give fair assessment to all opposition parties involved actively in Singapore politics, including mine. Take away my position as SG of NSP, I will still say the same thing. The problems WP faces will be bigger than anybody else. Problems of integration is about getting people to know each other better. But what WP is facing is the opposite, when the members know each other too well, they will face even more problems. Eric Tan saga will only be a starter.

I am simply stating the fact that the thread starter is obviously biased in starting this thread.

As for NSP, it is simpler to solve the problems due to its unique culture.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear GMS

If the WP cracks splits fucks it up like the SDP after 1991 , then the opposition is screwed whether nsp rp and or sdp. All parties are now in the same boat. So Eric sadly has left like GMS CTL post 2006. but the party will evolve has to evolve for everyone's sake.

Locke

Eric left in a very different setting and manner. I left quietly, without much fanfare, nothing really in disputes. Not even the slightest implications to anyone else. Just a good mutual parting. Eric left with a bad taste in the mouth with lots of implications for the internal dynamics. I shall not elaborate and I believe those in the play would understand better. This is totally two different scenarios altogether.

Yes, you are right. If WP really cracks, all other opposition parties will be affected. That is why, as an active player in the field, I am more concerned about WP's well being than anything else. But it seems that people are blinded by success and didn't seem to understand the potential time bomb ticking within. Well, expectedly, people will throw m&d at me for pointing out the facts and truths here. Playing ostriches and hoping the problems will go away is unproductive at all. The first step of problem solving is always the hardest... identifying and admitting the problems exist.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[jixiaolan]

The thread starter should come clean for starting this thread in the disguise of discussing on the future oppositions after GE but purportedly left out WP. Despite having left WP but somehow still maintain a special "relationship" with WP, i hope his intention is not to demonise non-WP opposition parties.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Mr Goh,

first u the gen sec of nsp, a public figure, everything u said represent nsp standing. So dun give u r a political observer bulls**t here. u want to be a netural observer, then quit your post from nsp, then come back here as equal.

since u still the nsp gen sec, then answer the questions in regards to nsp and keep your opinions on other parties to yourself.

b4 u howlian on nsp achievements in the east, the places nsp contest already place nsp in an advantage. first nsp never laid claim to marine parade, it only after TPL farces with the netizens that cause nsp to add another team there. did nsp walk the ground in marine parade in the 5 years after 2006GE? With the netizen biting on TPL non stop and media support of NS that result in nsp 40+% support in MP grc. As for tampines grc, u were contesting in one of the most unpopular minister in spore yet u manage to bottle it in the end. Mountbatten was lose due to pap support from the hdb folks, nsp better buck up on that front.

Mr Goh, it would better u keep your mouth shut/hand away from the keyboard in regards to another party CEC. It not right for a gen sec of another party to commet on party internal affair. it much better for you to find solutions to keeping nsp relevant for the years to come, rather than counting on the happening of other political parties for nsp strategies for the decades to come.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Sleaguepunter,

Very strong response from you.

If Marine Parade is so good as you say (on hindsight actually), why didn't other parties like WP wants to contest, with or without TPL? The truth is, throughout NSP campaign in Marine Parade, we didn't even want to mention TPL! The target is GCT. Period.

So now that MP and GCT has proven to be weakest link, you think it is right for WP to step in now? LOL! That is rather opportunistic of you!

Well, this is an open country with people yearning for freedom of speech, isit not? So it seems that a WP supporter like you actually becomes more PAP than PAP.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Rogue Trader]

Goh, I think you've said enough here.

 

[dankos]

GMS,

who did better for GE 2011. wp or nsp?

just simple answer will do.

 

[karmabear]

Mr Goh, actually I support opposition and NSP as well. This is why I humbly request you stop posting as GMS. You represent NSP as sec-gen. So you must remember to project the right image. Otherwise, next GE... a lot of things will be dug up against you and affect the party also.

Just like myself. I like to spew vulgarities but does that mean I should do so in front of my kids and their school. In front of their schoolmates and their parents? No right? It affects the children. Likewise, as sec-gen, your members, your election candidates all depend on you in some way.

Please remember this... EQ EQ EQ EQ EQ!!!! You are very lacking in this respect. Can fight with KJ oredi.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Mr Goh, actually I support opposition and NSP as well. This is why I humbly request you stop posting as GMS. You represent NSP as sec-gen. So you must remember to project the right image. Otherwise, next GE... a lot of things will be dug up against you and affect the party also.

Just like myself. I like to spew vulgarities but does that mean I should do so in front of my kids and their school. In front of their schoolmates and their parents? No right? It affects the children. Likewise, as sec-gen, your members, your election candidates all depend on you in some way.

Please remember this... EQ EQ EQ EQ EQ!!!! You are very lacking in this respect. Can fight with KJ oredi.

So do you mean that it would be alright for me to post using a clone, just like some people here?

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Zombie]

If Marine Parade is so good as you say (on hindsight actually), why didn't other parties like WP wants to contest, with or without TPL?

That is precisely the point... that if NSP felt that MP was not so good, then NSP should not have contested and wasted resources in MP.

You used the same line of argument to ambush Michael Palmer before.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

That is precisely the point... that if NSP felt that MP was not so good, then NSP should not have contested and wasted resources in MP.

You used the same line of argument to ambush Michael Palmer before.

Actually, you got it. It is because WP felt that MP is not good (at least, not as good as Moulmein Kallang) that is why they are not interested at all, even though it is just NEXT to East Coast and Aljunied! They would rather go to MK which is miles away... talking about being "near"!

But now people just turn around and say, hey, you go there because of TPL and MP is weak, you grab the opportunity.. whatever. This is talking with 100% hindsight. But why didn't WP grab that opportunity? Simply because it feels that it is not a good place compared to Nee Soon and MK. Why waste resources.

Right from the start, even before TPL comes into picture, I have already stated my interests in MP. Yes, simply because I think it is a GOOD ground, contrary to all those naysayers. And yes, I have been a contrarian and keep telling people that GCT's so call popularity is just a MYTH. I believe in the choice I made and it has proven the point very clearly that yes, my judgement is right from the start.

With or without TPL, GCT is going to get a beating in his home ground. There is no mystery about it because PAP just throw every damn bad apples into Marine Parade. Braddel Heights, Chai Chee, Macpherson, part of Joo Chiat... cut out the supposedly stronger part, Mountbatten... etc. He has been FIXED by his own Party's strategy of gerrymandering.

But frankly speaking, how many of you here really understand this prior to GE 2011? There are even people out there calling me insane when I say NSP wants to contest in Marine Parade. Well, first, NSP has lost deposits in a 4 corner fight in 1992 Marine Parade by-elections. Secondly, GCT is perceived as the more popular guy.

Only "insane" person like me would think otherwise.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[3_M]

GMS, many people are interested to know what the score for TPL in Mountbatten ward. Any info?

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

GMS, many people are interested to know what the score for TPL in Mountbatten ward. Any info?

TPL is not in Mountbatten but Macpherson. I am not at liberty to tell anyone about the scores as I may contravene the Oath of Secrecy we have taken.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[dankos]

TPL is not in Mountbatten but Macpherson. I am not at liberty to tell anyone about the scores as I may contravene the Oath of Secrecy we have taken.

Goh Meng Seng

GMS,

who did better for GE 2011. wp or nsp?

just simple answer will do.


no answer or dun dare to answer. or no face to answer.