Pre Trial Conference

[sharin75]

Hi Any Lawyer Bro here?

Not sure if it's a correct place to ask.

Anyone attended Pre Trial Conference before? What to expect? Can still plead guilty after PTC?

My bro got into trouble and cant afford a lawyer. A volunteer lawyer took up the case...but dont really spend time talking with us.

Now is in PTC...really feel like attending PTC to listen what they say in court.

 

[borom]

What is a Pre-Trial Conference?
The purpose of the Pre-Trial Conference is to ascertain if a case is ready for trial. If the matter is fixed for a Pre-Trial Conference, you will be asked on the number of witness you will be calling in support of your defence. Once the case is ready for trial, the matter will be fixed for hearing. You will be informed of the date, time and place of hearing.
On the day of the trial, when you attend court, you will be asked whether you are guilty or not guilty of the charge(s) against you. Once the matter is fixed for trial, the Court will not allow any adjournments of the matter. If you plead guilty, you will be sentenced by the Court

.

I'm not a lawyer. The above info is obtained from the Subordinate Courts of Singapore website.

If you read the website , it may save you time(and money) and also help you to communicate better with the lawyer and judge.


http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/subcourts/page.aspx?pageid=4172

 

[sharin75]

Thanks for the details.

But technically, the accused no need attend court?

 

[Balls2U]

For your info, PTC are held in the judge's chamber (the room behind the open court) and it is basically to update the judge on the status of the matter. If the accused person is represented, then his/her lawyer will go inside chambers with the DPP, while the accused will wait outside. It is also the time to inform the judge whether the accused wants to plead guilty or claim trial. So, there is nothing much to see! I've attended on before. There are many different cases alloted to that judge and I had to wait outside for more than an hour before my lawyer went in. He was out in less than 2 mins and then I was told that I can leave. WTF! A complete waste of time! :oIo:

 

[uncleyap]

Hi Any Lawyer Bro here?

Not sure if it's a correct place to ask.

Anyone attended Pre Trial Conference before? What to expect? Can still plead guilty after PTC?

My bro got into trouble and cant afford a lawyer. A volunteer lawyer took up the case...but dont really spend time talking with us.

Now is in PTC...really feel like attending PTC to listen what they say in court.

you want PG can do any time. I went to PG for Toa Payoh TBT trial because I don't want to be in a joint trial with the rest. They were affecting my defense and caused miscarriage of justice. (They interfere with my cross-examinations; interfered with my schedules; prevented me from raising evidence; prevented me from giving evidence). It caused the prosecutors extra work with you PG (they have to prepare papers). I knew the judge will not even accept my PG . When I indicated that I wanted to PG again the DPP show me the TOLONG (Beg) SIGNAL..

If you want to you and you know how to in a trial you can PG as many times as you want. They will faint.

:p

PTC is where you fix trial dates and schedule and handle the preliminaries, indicate what sort of time is needed, indicate if you are ready, need to bring in foreign lawyer, local lawyer, foreign witnesses, disabled witnesses, Juvenal witnesses etc, need to show video evidence, bring exhibits etc... Need hearing in camera (you raped some one??)

Or if you need time to make representation (bargain for lesser charge for example.. or pay compound fine)

Some matter can go through 4-5 PTC, each few weeks apart.

 

[sharin75]

you want PG can do any time. I went to PG for Toa Payoh TBT trial because I don't want to be in a joint trial with the rest. They were affecting my defense and caused miscarriage of justice. (They interfere with my cross-examinations; interfered with my schedules; prevented me from raising evidence; prevented me from giving evidence). It caused the prosecutors extra work with you PG (they have to prepare papers). I knew the judge will not even accept my PG . When I indicated that I wanted to PG again the DPP show me the TOLONG (Beg) SIGNAL..

If you want to you and you know how to in a trial you can PG as many times as you want. They will faint.

:p

PTC is where you fix trial dates and schedule and handle the preliminaries, indicate what sort of time is needed, indicate if you are ready, need to bring in foreign lawyer, local lawyer, foreign witnesses, disabled witnesses, Juvenal witnesses etc, need to show video evidence, bring exhibits etc... Need hearing in camera (you raped some one??)

Or if you need time to make representation (bargain for lesser charge for example.. or pay compound fine)

Some matter can go through 4-5 PTC, each few weeks apart.

UncleYap, I'm very interested to talk to you in person.

What is PG?

Can contact me?

What is TBT?

 

[busdriver111]

Pre-trial conference is a meeting between the judge, the prosecutor and the defence counsel (or the accused person himself if not represented), before the case goes for trial.

Generally, for cases that start in court 26, PTCs are held in chambers (judge's office) at Court No. 17. For cases that start in court 21 (Traffic) and Court 23 (MAC cases), PTCs are held in the chambers of those respective courts.

Usually, what the judge wants to know is which charges prosecution is proceeding with, what sort of offers are made to the accused (eg. proceed with 2 out of 5 charges, provided the accused pleads guilty, TIC the rest).

As for the accused, judge will want to know what is his stand, plead guilty, make representations, or claim trial (fight the case). Sometimes, one party may ask for a meeting between prosecutor and defence called CCMS. These meetings are held in AGC office, and both sides will try to persuade the other to give up or concede some ground, by revealing some evidence. Some defence lawyers use these CCMS meetings to fish for information.

If your brother wants to plead guilty, he should tell his lawyer. Once his lawyer tells the judge this during the PTC, a mention date will be fixed in another court for your brother to plead guilty (in open court), and be sentenced.

 

[sharin75]

Sometimes, one party may ask for a meeting between prosecutor and defence called CCMS. These meetings are held in AGC office, and both sides will try to persuade the other to give up or concede some ground, by revealing some evidence. Some defence lawyers use these CCMS meetings to fish for information.

Bro, what is CCMS? Looks like a place for DPP and defense lawyer negotiate?

Can the defence starts with representation? If unsuccessful then can plead guilty or will automatic becomes trial?

What happen to the TIC if in trial?

 

[sharin75]

Sometimes, one party may ask for a meeting between prosecutor and defence called CCMS. These meetings are held in AGC office, and both sides will try to persuade the other to give up or concede some ground, by revealing some evidence. Some defence lawyers use these CCMS meetings to fish for information.

Bro, CCMS stands for what?

Is it true that can FIRST make representations in PTC? If unsuccessful, can make another representations based on other new evidence? IF still unsuccessful, then it will automatically go trial? Still have option to plead?

IF go trial, the TIC charges still remain?

 

[uncleyap]

UncleYap, I'm very interested to talk to you in person.

What is PG?

Can contact me?

What is TBT?

PG = plea guilty
TBT = Tak Boleh Tahan Campaign.

http://sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=72688
http://uncleyap-news.blogspot.com/2010/09/no-case-and-dismisal-application-for.html
http://uncleyap-news.blogspot.com/2008/08/familee-leegime-panic-as-tak-boleh.html
http://uncleyap-news.blogspot.com/2010/09/tbt-parliaments-video-re-loaded-on.html


Tell us one thing first what case you kenna?

Drunk drunk driving?

 

[sharin75]

Tell us one thing first what case you kenna?

Drunk drunk driving?

Not me. My bro kena.

Potentially sensational. But nothing compared to TBT case.

Genuine help needed.

 

[Teo Kok Eng]

Potentially sensational. But nothing compared to TBT case.

Genuine help needed.

Why so malu? Come here seek help, must be upfront.

Just tell what case your bro kena and people can help.


Potentially sensational? Beh Tai See, is it one of the following:

sex case (molest, peeping, upskirt etc)
assault case (maid beating etc)
white collar case (cheating, cbt etc)
what else can be sensational?

Nothing to be ashamed of. If ashamed, don't do it in the first place. Once done, be upfront and see what the bros can do

 

[scroobal]

Teo is right. Nobody knows you from Adam. You are not financially well off and you are looking for advice. Best is to state the case and the circumstances and some folks can help.

 

[sharin75]

Teo is right. Nobody knows you from Adam. You are not financially well off and you are looking for advice. Best is to state the case and the circumstances and some folks can help.

Never mind then.

I have no intention to make circus the case and be discussed in this open forum.

Just didn't know what to expect for my bro, and he pretty stressed at the moment.

Case got nothing to do with moral but still got criminally charged. Stupid case.

Just ignore this thread.

Thanks.

 

[moolightaffairs]

Not me. My bro kena.

Potentially sensational. But nothing compared to TBT case.

Genuine help needed.

want help from others, must be upfront. dont behave so sneaky. :oIo:

 

[Ramseth]

It's a plain waste of time and money to PG at PTC. When it comes to PTC, it already means you claim trial. Migitation can be done at mention. Bargaining for a lower charge can be done at the police station IO office.

 

[busdriver111]

CCMS = Criminal Case Management System. A case is put under the system when the defence indicates that the accused intends to claim trial. If prosecution feels that they can persuade the accused to plead guilty instead by showing some evidence to the defence (eg. witness statements), they will ask for the case to be placed under CCMS. If the defence counsel feels they can persuade prosecution to drop the charges, they will also ask for CCMS.

CCMS simply means DPP and defence lawyer have meetings in Attorney General's Chambers (DPP's office, at the Adelphi).

Yes, defence can ask the court for time to make representations. Of course, more time can be given to make further representations based on new facts or evidence.

TIC = taken into consideration. This is relevant only where the accused person pleads guilty. Eg. he faces 5 charges, after representations are made, prosecution proceeds on only 2 charges. When sentencing the accused for the 2 charges, the judge will consider the fact ("take into consideration") that he originally also faced the 3 other charges.

However, if the accused decides to claim trial, the prosecution extremely rarely drops any charges to proceed with for trial.

 

[busdriver111]

It's a plain waste of time and money to PG at PTC. When it comes to PTC, it already means you claim trial. Migitation can be done at mention. Bargaining for a lower charge can be done at the police station IO office.

We have to differentiate between in chambers and open court. It is not possible to plead guilty during PTC since the rules stipulate that pleas and sentences must be done in open court, in a mention.

PTCs are done in chambers, so if defence indicates that the accused person intends to plead guilty (the normal lingo is "taking a certain course"), the PTC judge will transfer the case to another court for mention, for the accused to plead guilty. Certain categoies of cases (eg. accused young or mentally disabled) get sent to the community court (3,4 or 8). Court 21 and 23 cases also generally remain in the same court for mentions and PTCs.

Mitigations must be done in open court during mentions. Cannot be done in PTC, in chambers.

I don't think bargaining for a reduced charge can be done at the station. Don't IOs have to confer with the AGC on this? Please clarify as you were from the police.

 

[busdriver111]

TS,

Which court did your brother's case begin in? I presume his counsel is assigned under the Criminal Legal Aid Scheme?

How many charges does he face? Are the charges all under the same section and Act?
(No need to reveal which section and which Act if you don't wish to)

Have representations been made? Any replies received from AGC?

Does your brother intend to claim trial, if at the end of the day if prosecution does not agree with anything asked for in the representations?

 

[alvin36]

Pre-trial conference is a meeting between the judge, the prosecutor and the defence counsel (or the accused person himself if not represented), before the case goes for trial.

Generally, for cases that start in court 26, PTCs are held in chambers (judge's office) at Court No. 17. For cases that start in court 21 (Traffic) and Court 23 (MAC cases), PTCs are held in the chambers of those respective courts.

Usually, what the judge wants to know is which charges prosecution is proceeding with, what sort of offers are made to the accused (eg. proceed with 2 out of 5 charges, provided the accused pleads guilty, TIC the rest).

As for the accused, judge will want to know what is his stand, plead guilty, make representations, or claim trial (fight the case). Sometimes, one party may ask for a meeting between prosecutor and defence called CCMS. These meetings are held in AGC office, and both sides will try to persuade the other to give up or concede some ground, by revealing some evidence. Some defence lawyers use these CCMS meetings to fish for information.

If your brother wants to plead guilty, he should tell his lawyer. Once his lawyer tells the judge this during the PTC, a mention date will be fixed in another court for your brother to plead guilty (in open court), and be sentenced.

PTC is a "unofficial bargain" meeting between both sides of lawyers and the judge. Depends on what is the offence.... most of the times, ptc is used to discussed about ...

1. to plead guilty or not
2. ask for downgrade of crime... or to proceed with how many offences.
3. also to bargain for a lighter sentense if plead guilty.

if all parties agreed.. sometimes no need to claim trail liao. Just plead guilty and get a lighter sentense....

something like that. but I'm not 100% sure