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*An open letter to all parents deciding to vaccinate or not to vaccinate their child.*

theblackhole

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
It all depends on the kind of parents, no? For example, some parents are hardcore supporters of Pink Dot and LGBT, and bring their brats down to Hong Lim Park to mingle with the faggots... teaching them to be open-minded and raising them the 'proper way'. :wink:
yes boss
the kids future will depend on their well informed or ill informed parents
the kids have no say
parents say yes, they follow
gov say yes, most parents will also follow
we are finito lah - no independent thinking
just like robots ....finito
also in future no independent sammyboys toking coke leow ....
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
Aiyo doctor how can any how say one. Good thing we have the PAP to correct them, keep us safe from on line false hoods. :thumbsup:
 

Hypocrite-The

Alfrescian
Loyal

Expert committee hits back at open letter by 12 S'pore doctors saying mRNA Covid-19 vaccine not safe & not effective for those aged 12-15​

Swift rebuttal and retraction.
Belmont Lay |
clock.png
May 22, 2021, 05:46 PM

singapore-doctors-open-letter-against-mrna-vaccination.jpg

A group of 12 doctors penned an open letter on Thursday night, May 20, pertaining to the risks of Covid-19 vaccination for children.



Their piece called for children to be given traditional Covid-19 vaccines instead of mRNA ones.
The open letter was posted on the fuckwarezone forum.

It was initially accessible on the forum, but appears to have been taken down.
The open letter also made its way onto Telegram in one chat on vaccination.

Retraction of letter​


However, within a day, a retraction subsequently appeared in some chats.
Eleven of the 12 doctors retracted the letter.
The retraction was confirmed by Paul Yang, the author of the letter and one of the doctors.
Yang, a general practitioner, told The Straits Times: "The letter was posted prematurely. It is a letter of advice to my church parents' group. The technical issues are unfortunately too complicated, but accurate factually."

What letter said​


The open letter was addressed to "all parents deciding to vaccinate or not to vaccinate their child".
It led to concern among some parents of young children.
The letter was taken seriously as two of the doctors who signed it had also put their names down on an open letter in February 2020 calling on people to wear masks when going out some two months before it was made mandatory in Singapore.
The doctors, in this current letter, cast doubt on mRNA vaccines, saying the "long-term side effects are unknown and unstudied".
The letter also supports killed-virus technology, which "has been around for decades and has a very long and safe track record".
This has been taken to mean an explicit approval by the doctors for the Sinovac vaccine.
The letter also said the mRNA vaccines do not "effectively stop" children "from becoming vectors" that pass on the disease.
Singapore is using two vaccines utilising mRNA technology, both of which are produced by Pzifer-BioNTech and Moderna.
mRNA technology gets cells to make a protein piece on its surface that triggers an immune response.
This method differs from the Sinovac vaccine, where killed virus is used.




Other doctors speak out against open letter​


Doctors and scientists have spoken out against the open letter.
Ooi Eng Eong, a professor at Duke-NUS Medical School, an expert on emerging infectious diseases who has been involved in developing an mRNA vaccine, said the letter's argument is "pseudoscience".
He added that the content is based on "a lot of misunderstanding of molecular biology and immunology".
He said, as reported by ST: "The development of mRNA vaccine, although rapid, was based on more than 20 years of painstaking research. This vaccine technology was not assembled in a hurry. Instead, the world was fortunate that this technology matured at a time when it was needed most."
Desmond Wai, a gastroenterologist in private practice, said any question should be posed to MOH or the experts directly, especially if there are deviations "from the mainstream", ST reported.
Otherwise, it will lead to public confusion at a time when the public takes doctors' advice seriously.
Kenneth Lyen, a paediatrician in private practice, said it is safer to be vaccinated than not, ST also reported.
Doctor and MP Koh Poh Koon took to Facebook to slam the letter:




Swift debunking​


Following the retraction of the letter by 11 of the 12 doctors, the contents of the piece has been debunked by other experts in Singapore.
Singapore's expert committee on Covid-19 vaccination said on Friday, May 21 in response that the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine in children aged 12 to 15 has been assessed to be safe and effective.
"The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is currently the only Covid-19 vaccine anywhere in the world that has been authorised for use in adolescents aged 12 to 15 years," the expert committee said.
"HSA (Health Sciences Authority) and the Expert Committee had reviewed the safety and efficacy of the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine based on the clinical trials for individuals in this age group."
"The safety profile of the vaccine is consistent with the known safety profile in the adult population and the standards set for other registered vaccines used in the immunisation against other diseases."
The expert committee also noted that 11 of the 12 doctors named in the open letter have since retracted their statement.
The committee said the Singapore population, including adolescents, continue to remain at risk of infection and onward transmission to their close contacts.
"This is seen in the recent local cases and outbreaks involving schoolgoing children who had been infected with Covid-19 and transmitted it to their family members and schoolmates," it said.
Prescribing what to do, the expert committee added: "The expert committee therefore recommends that with the availability of a safe and efficacious vaccine, all eligible persons should receive the vaccine to attain as high a population coverage of Covid-19 vaccination as possible."
The expert committee also addressed the claims made in the letter that one's DNA can be changed by mRNA vaccination in the long run.
The expert committee said: "Covid-19 vaccines cannot alter your DNA. The Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine comprises messenger RNA (mRNA) that contains the instructions to enable the vaccine recipient to build a protein component of the Sars-CoV-2 virus ("spike protein")."
"The spike protein does not cause infection, but is recognised by the body's immune system as foreign. The body then mounts an immune response and produces antibodies that protects against future infection by the virus. The vaccine mRNA is broken down by the body rapidly after the spike protein is built. The mRNA is unable to produce more copies of itself, and cannot enter the nucleus of the human cells where human genetic material ("DNA") is stored."
"Since the human genome is made up of DNA, it is not biologically plausible for the vaccine mRNA to be integrated or to interfere with the DNA of the vaccine recipient."

Existing copy of open letter still available but maybe not for long​


A cached version of the open letter signed off with the 12 names of the doctors can be found here.
The full retraction can be found here:

Retraction letter seen on my whatsapp
An open letter to all parents who may have read our letter on 20th May 2021
We are a group of Singaporean Doctors, who are of the view that MOH should quickly approve a killed-virus vaccine for our children and adults.
We like to withdraw all our humble ponderings, as some of our thoughts may be misunderstood by some laypersons. We will henceforth, ponder in a more professional and private forum.

Top photo via Unsplash
 

Hypocrite-The

Alfrescian
Loyal

The General took umbrage, now the Son of Punggol is aghast​

by The Online Citizen
25/05/2021
in Editorial
Reading Time: 2 mins read
9
The General took umbrage, now the Son of Punggol is aghast


In a Facebook post on Saturday (22 May) Senior Minister of State for Health Dr Koh Poh Koon said he was “aghast and disappointed” with an open letter by 12 doctors last week questioning the long-term safety of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine for use on children.
The letter from the doctors, dated 20 May, contained a list of issues that the doctors urged parents to think through carefully before choosing to inoculate their children against COVID-19.
Eleven of the doctors eventually retracted their letter, saying they were withdrawing their “humble ponderings” as some of their thoughts may be misunderstood by laypersons.
Dr Koh is famous for being the self-declared ‘Son of Punggol‘ when he ran as a People’s Action Party (PAP) candidate during the 2011 Punggol East SMC by-election.
In explaining why he was “aghast”, Dr Koh wrote that the “unscientific and unprofessional” way in which the doctors had interpreted scientific evidence and conducted themselves had also “created confusion and fear” in the public.
It has to be noted that Dr Koh is a colorectal surgeon, not a virologist.
His expression of “aghast” comes in the wake of a former general and current CEO of Singapore Press Holdings, Ng Yat Chung, apologising for his outburst at a media conference, when he took “umbrage” with a reporter’s questions.
To be aghast, by the way, is to be struck with terror, amazement, or horror.
Taking a cue from the SPH CEO and former general, and the Senior Minister of State and Son of Punggol, shouldn’t Singaporeans be the ones to take umbrage and feel aghast at some of the things that are going on (or going wrong!) in this country?

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Hypocrite-The

Alfrescian
Loyal

Doctors call out former NMP Calvin Cheng over uncalled-for attack on GPs after he says they should “stick to looking at common colds”​

Mr Cheng was responding to an open letter by 12 doctors that called for children to be given the 'killed-virus' vaccines instead of mRNA vaccines​

by kathleen
25/05/2021
in Comments, Health
Reading Time: 7 mins read
8
Doctors call out former NMP Calvin Cheng over uncalled-for attack on GPs after he says they should “stick to looking at common colds”


Following the open letter on 20 May by 12 doctors who called for children to be given the ‘killed-virus’ vaccines instead of mRNA vaccines, businessman and former Nominated Member of Parliament (NMP) Calvin Cheng took to Facebook on Saturday (22 May) to slam the letter as being irresponsible.
The counter, however, had the flavour of an ad hominem attack where Mr Cheng slammed the doctors behind the letter as being “irresponsible GPs”.
“They are general practitioners who got a degree in medicine, who then either chose not to specialise in a certain field, or were not chosen to be specialists. So they become GENERALISTS,” he expressed.
Mr Cheng continued, “They look after everyday illnesses, and once an illness or disease is too complex for them, they refer them to the expert in that illness, a specialist.”
“In this case, the specialists we need to listen to are those with expertise in infectious diseases and vaccines.”

Mr Cheng went on to quote Professor Ooi Eng Eong of Duke-NUS Medical School, an expert in emerging infectious diseases who has been involved in the development of the mRNA vaccine, saying that the argument in the open letter was “pseudoscience” and is based on “a lot of misunderstanding of molecular biology and immunology”.
He included a quote from Prof Ooi who had said in a Straits Times report: “The development of mRNA vaccine, although rapid, was based on more than 20 years of painstaking research. This vaccine technology was not assembled in a hurry. Instead, the world was fortunate that this technology matured at a time when it was needed most.”
Mr Cheng noted in an edit made to the post that primary healthcare is important and that general practitioners are front liners and are valued, “but they are not specialists and definitely not vaccine specialists”.
In the comments section of his post, he wrote: “Some of the doctors were the ones who jumped the science and told everyone to wear surgical masks during a time when medical professionals were in short supply. In the end, the science proved that masks were necessary but not because of the reasons they gave.”
He then asserted that the GPs should “stick to looking at common colds and diarrhoea instead of writing letters outside their expertise”.
calvin-cheng-1.png

In a separate comment, one netizen pointed out that not all the 12 doctors are GPs, and demanded that Mr Cheng apologise for making a false statement. Replying to the comment, Mr Cheng simply wrote: “No.”
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In another comment where a GP who goes by the name Dr Hoe Wai Sin had asked Mr Cheng not to edit out his “insulting comments about GPs”, Mr Cheng replied saying that he has to “care for strawberries” – a common insult to so-called sensitive people.
cheng-10.png

Several others, some who appear to be doctors themselves or graduates of medicine, also called out Mr Cheng’s attack on GPs which was “uncalled for”. They were quick to debunk the open letter, adding that GPs are an important aspect of the healthcare system.
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Several hours after Mr Cheng’s post was published, one GP in particular, Dr Hoe, had taken to Facebook to call out Mr Cheng further.
“The letter was written by a mix of doctors including at least one paediatrician and one internal medicine specialist,” she wrote.
“While I do not agree with the choice of platform, there’s no need to bray for blood.”
Dr Hoe went on to stress, “In addition, many GPs choose to be GPs cos it’s our calling. We want to and choose to be primary care physicians. That does not imply we are lousier doctors than specialists. We love our jobs even though we are poorly paid compared to our more glamorous colleagues.”
She elaborated, “For your infor, we do not just treat common colds and diarrhea. We also treat hypertension, diabetes, hyperlipidemia etc etc , acute injuries like foreign bodies etc and we also screen patients when appropriate, referring them to specialists at an earlier stage.
“That actually saves lives, in case you still don’t get it.”

Dr Hoe went on to address Mr Cheng’s point on GP’s not being vaccine specialists and speaking outside their expertise. She noted that she herself has given several talks to the general public on the vaccination program in her capacity as a GP.


“Yes, I am not a specialist, but we GPs possess the common touch, and we know how to break down difficult medical concepts / ‘cheem’ lingo into simple layman terms for our patients, in their native language,” she remarked.

“We certainly do not deserve such disrespect /disdain from you. What have you done for the covid fight lately?”

In an update to her post, Dr Hoe added that she disagrees with calls by netizens to report Mr Cheng or his post as “cancel culture is toxic as it is”.

“I believe in free speech even the nasty ones from him,” she explained.

“In the same vein, I [don’t] think it’s right to cancel Dr Khoo BK even if he doesn’t retract his statement,” referring to the only one of the 12 doctors behind the open letter who has not retracted his statement.

Dr Hoe continued, “At the very least, the letter allows for clarifications to be aired and that can’t be a bad thing. Do not forget that some of the 12 issued an open letter about wearing masks, which turned out to be prescient.”

“We should allow for diversity of opinions even from the likes of [Calvin Cheng]. We should be careful and guard against groupthink and forming echo chambers,” she concluded.

GPs play a critical role

Beyond that, on Tuesday (25 May), President of the College of Family Physicians Singapore adjunct Associate Professor Tan Tze Lee and Director of the Primary & Community Care Division of the Ministry of Health Dr Ruth Lim responded to the furore in order to “address the misinformation in recent social media posts containing inaccurate statements” about GPs.

In a forum reply on The Straits Times titled ‘GPs play critical role in the public health system, they stressed that family medicine, as practiced by GPs, is a recognised clinical discipline devoted to the “comprehensive and continuing care of individuals and their family”.

“Many GPs undergo years of postgraduate training before they acquire qualifications that allow them to be admitted to the Register of Family Physicians,” the reply noted.

“With further years of training, they acquire other qualifications that allow them to be admitted to the Academy of Medicine, which is the same body that represents medical and dental specialists in Singapore.”

Stressing that GPs and hospital-based specialists play different roles and bring different skills to the healthcare landscape, Dr Ruth and adjunct Assoc. Prof Tan stressed that “both are essential”.

“In the present Covid-19 pandemic, most generalists are at the front lines attending to patients and performing a critical role in public health, in screening, testing and vaccination of patients,” they explained, adding that some generalists also work in the hospital setting, be it acute or community hospitals.

“When writing about issues in the public sphere, we expect that effort be made to check the facts. In a civil discourse, this is the responsible thing to do.”

The open letter

The open letter, which was originally posted on the fuckwarezone forum but has since been removed, was apparently addressed to “all parents deciding to vaccinate or not vaccinate their child”.

In it, it was said that the mRNA vaccine does not “effectively stop” children from becoming vectors of the virus and passing it on to others. It also supported the more traditionally killed-virus technology vaccines which “has been around for decades and has a very long and safe track record”.

Amidst immediate backlash against the letter from many doctors and scientists, there was also a response on Facebook by Member of Parliament (MP) Dr Koh Poh Koon who said that he was “aghast and disappointed by the unscientific and unprofessional way in which these doctors have interpreted scientific evidence and conducted themselves”.


A day after penning the open letter, 11 of the 12 doctors who signed off on the open letter had retracted it.

The retraction which is said to be circulating on WhatsApp noted:

“An open letter to all parents who may have read our letter on 20th May 2021.
“We are a group of Singaporean Doctors, who are of the view that MOH should quickly approve a killed-virus vaccine for our children and adults.
“We like to withdraw all our humble ponderings, as some of our thoughts may be misunderstood by some laypersons. We will henceforth, ponder in a more professional and private forum.”

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sweetiepie

Alfrescian
Loyal
The expert committee also noted that 11 of the 12 doctors named in the open letter have since retracted their statement.
KNN my uncle say lansai lah KNN what leeference does it make whether they leetracted anot KNN they leetracted doesn't mean they agree KNN also leetracted is it not to let other people read it but other people already know it KNN which means they should instead make them Lee produced the correct content and punish them to write out by hand100x KNN
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Have you decided for sure not to be vaccinated? :unsure:

There is no urgency in NZ as we have zero Covid. If an attentuated virus version is available when the time comes I will have no hesitation in taking it. However I am still reluctant to take the mRNA varieties.
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
There is no urgency in NZ as we have zero Covid. If an attentuated virus version is available when the time comes I will have no hesitation in taking it. However I am still reluctant to take the mRNA varieties.

Ah................ok. I am not totally convinced about vaccines either. There seems to be a small % who have had side effects including death, but these could be due to existing conditions they had which did not agree with the vaccine. The vast majority seem to be ok after being vaccinated. :coffee:
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Ah................ok. I am not totally convinced about vaccines either. There seems to be a small % who have had side effects including death, but these could be due to existing conditions they had which did not agree with the vaccine. The vast majority seem to be ok after being vaccinated. :coffee:

We still don't know the long term effects of mRNA technology.

If you go to an eye specialist chances are you'll notice that most are wearing specs despite the fact that they are providing lazik treatment.

The reason is that they don't know what the long term effects of lazik are so they place safe.

mRNA is no different.
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
We still don't know the long term effects of mRNA technology.

If you go to an eye specialist chances are you'll notice that most are wearing specs despite the fact that they are providing lazik treatment.

The reason is that they don't know what the long term effects of lazik are so they place safe.

mRNA is no different.

The difference is that lasik treatment is more for convenience and asthetics. But covid vaccine may be the difference between life/death or mild/serious illness. I guess you just have to make a decision based on the data available, Like I said before, on balance, I think it is better to be vaccinated.

After all, the PAP ministars got themselves vaccinated pretty quickly, :biggrin:
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
https://www.alberta.ca/open-for-sum...wHH_82SsKmzWQian836Fr6zacFXJUaPRoCWcgQAvD_BwE

Alberta got lottery. I got my first dose middle of May. So I qualify for the July Lottery.

If I get 2nd dose before Aug and Sept I can qualify for 2 more draws.

$1m each

I will die anyway so might as well take and try for lottery draw!

Good luck with the (fake) lottery! :thumbsup:

But please don't claim that you are a doctor again, or I will once again have to issue an advisory for our readers and members. Thank you. :wink:
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Yes real lottery, but fake for you since you are in Singapore and not Canada and not a real doctor either. :wink:

Since you keep going on and on with this crap I decided to check the doc out. He's connecting from Canada with a Canadian ISP not a VPN service.

I am 110% convinced he's in Canada. Whether he is a "real" doctor is not my concern because he is not my doctor.

Cut the nonsense. If you have problem with Mark Andrew give him a call and fuck him. I will no longer sit back and watch you spam this forum with his picture. Everyone has a limit and mine is close to being reached.
 

sweetiepie

Alfrescian
Loyal
Since you keep going on and on with this crap I decided to check the doc out. He's connecting from Canada with a Canadian ISP not a VPN service.

I am 110% convinced he's in Canada. Whether he is a "real" doctor is not my concern because he is not my doctor.

Cut the nonsense. If you have problem with Mark Andrew give him a call and fuck him. I will no longer sit back and watch you spam this forum with his picture. Everyone has a limit and mine is close to being reached.
KNN although my uncle also believe loctor is a real loctor but my uncle think there is a double standard handling if we compare this with @ginfreely case of spamming this forum with dogs and whore messages :cool: :geek:KNN in this case my uncle think you also need to advise @ginfreely to go sfc main gate and fuck kt Latha and lj mccully :cool: KNN
 
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