Chitchat Will you go to hell after death? Some believe they will

[JohnTan]

I accept your views. The soul of a closed mind but a good heart should be fine. Yes, there's a long list of other people who also preach the same. So what makes Jesus special?

What makes Jesus special is that he died on the cross as an atonement for our sins. With that, humans no longer need to sacrifice animals continually as an atonement for sin.

In every other belief system, including atheism, most people believe that in order to get right with God, or to enter paradise, the only way is to accumulate merit by doing good and following a set of religious rituals. Christianity is the only one that stands out; you can only get right with God by accepting Jesus's cruxification on the cross and his resurrection. Doing good is a reflection of a person changed by what Jesus did. Doing good is not a ticket into paradise.

Now that I have answered you, answer me this : What if a person never had the opportunity to know God though Jesus? Where is this person going to end up at?

I don't know. And frankly, I don't bother. I'm more concerned about myself and my loved ones. My ancestors from centuries ago didn't know Jesus. So whether they are in heaven or hell, it's between them and God.

 

[JohnTan]

How can I go to a place that I don't believe exists?

Likewise all the Christians are going to Islamic hell. And vice versa.

That would bring a lot of comfort to hardcore moslems. However, we all know islam to be false and mohammad to be a false prophet. So now, we're not going to an islamic hell.

 

[glockman]

What makes Jesus special is that he died on the cross as an atonement for our sins. With that, humans no longer need to sacrifice animals continually as an atonement for sin.

In every other belief system, including atheism, most people believe that in order to get right with God, or to enter paradise, the only way is to accumulate merit by doing good and following a set of religious rituals. Christianity is the only one that stands out; you can only get right with God by accepting Jesus's cruxification on the cross and his resurrection. Doing good is a reflection of a person changed by what Jesus did. Doing good is not a ticket into paradise.



I don't know. And frankly, I don't bother. I'm more concerned about myself and my loved ones. My ancestors from centuries ago didn't know Jesus. So whether they are in heaven or hell, it's between them and God.

A loving and merciful God needed a sacrifice in order to be appeased of his anger. And because he loves mankind so much and yet cannot forgive mankind, he decided to send his own son in a human form to be a human sacrifice. Amazing!

Anyway, let us just be good people. Not all christians are good people, not all non-christians are bad people. We are what we are, what we choose to be, regardless of religion. Because our human nature is in the driver's seat. The soul is eternal, religion merely imparts to us good morals, food for the soul. And that's good too. Each religion is a different road to the same destination. The after life, the great beyond.

 

[JohnTan]

A loving and merciful God needed a sacrifice in order to be appeased of his anger. And because he loves mankind so much and yet cannot forgive mankind, he decided to send his own son in a human form to be a human sacrifice. Amazing!

Sin needs to be atoned for. It's like paying for what you did, what you buy. God is perfect and cannot abide with imperfection, which includes rape, murder, pedophilia, opposing PAP, lying, stealing, etc.

If God can forgive sin by snapping his fingers or by forgetting about it, then God is very inhumane. God would be sending a message that doing bad is okay, doing bad has no consequence, and people have a license to sin freely. You mistake a loving God as a God who is trapped by the 'loving' phrase and is expected to accept any crime or injustice in the name of 'love'. You would make a great lawyer for trapping people in their words.

Sin has to be atoned for. You can die for your sins in this life and burn in hell, or someone else can do it on your behalf. That's what Jesus did.

I don't buy the nonsense about doing good deeds in other to accumulate merit or to find favour in God's eyes. People who do so often live in fear all their lives, are hypocrites, and usually turn out to be some sort of closet faggot, pedophile or wife abuser.

Anyway, let us just be good people. Not all christians are good people, not all non-christians are bad people. We are what we are, what we choose to be, regardless of religion. Because our human nature is in the driver's seat. The soul is eternal, religion merely imparts to us good morals, food for the soul. And that's good too. Each religion is a different road to the same destination. The after life, the great beyond.

I agree that we all should be good.

What we differ is on why we choose to do good. I do good because I am already secure in God and enjoy his forgiveness and favour. Whether I choose to do good or not, it has no relevance in my standing before God. I am righteous before God whether I choose to do charity or whether I choose to mind my own business. I do good and volunteer at the RC and church as a reflection of how good God has been for me. I'm not more righteous because I volunteer more often.

Other people may be doing good because they hope their good deeds can outweigh their bad deeds. People don't eat certain foods because if they do, all the good they do is wiped out and they are immediately unclean before God. That's how I fire employees who did well in past years but fail to meet my expectations in the most recent year.

 

[nightsafari]

Consider for a moment, that there is actually no heaven, no hell (as preached in holy books). Only learning, so that our souls become more enlightened, more evolved.

so you have been reading ultimaonline's books...

 

[nightsafari]

A loving and merciful God needed a sacrifice in order to be appeased of his anger. And because he loves mankind so much and yet cannot forgive mankind, he decided to send his own son in a human form to be a human sacrifice. Amazing!

in a mood for understatement are we? just throw another wood into the fire. ritual sacrifice was a common practice of Abrahamic faith in the early days. Poor sheep.

religion merely imparts to us good morals

uh... this one is possible to go either way.... I don't know if more people have been saved or died because of religion.

Each religion is a different road to the same destination. The after life, the great beyond.

uh... no. sorli to disagree hor... good, conscious, considered actions are the path to a good life and afterlife. Some human cultures did that long before religion came into existence. Religion is designed for those who wish not to consider the possibility of horrific consequences. That is their inherent appeal. The version that you see nowadays does have a moral code built in, but that came much later.

 

[glockman]

Sin needs to be atoned for. It's like paying for what you did, what you buy. God is perfect and cannot abide with imperfection, which includes rape, murder, pedophilia, opposing PAP, lying, stealing, etc.

This is what the Bible teaches about God. He is so perfect that he would not tolerate any imperfections. So why did he give us our human nature? Which is imperfect, knowing that Eve would be tempted. Some would say he gave us freedom of choice. And if he is all knowing, alpha and omega, he would have known that humans will screw up when given freedom of choice. Hence, he knew the outcome, and yet proceeded with creation. Kind of sadistic. Oh, and I didn't miss your classification of opposing PAP as a sin which needs atonement. You pap dog! Yes, I know what your ah gong said about "repent". He probably thought he was god.

If God can forgive sin by snapping his fingers or by forgetting about it, then God is very inhumane. God would be sending a message that doing bad is okay, doing bad has no consequence, and people have a license to sin freely. You mistake a loving God as a God who is trapped by the 'loving' phrase and is expected to accept any crime or injustice in the name of 'love'. You would make a great lawyer for trapping people in their words.

God is spirit, not human so he can't be inhumane. Our human understanding of God is very limited. He is (they are) energy and spirit. I believe their goal is to help our soul improve and learn from experiences, so that we can elevate ourselves to be useful to others. Each religion has their own notion of God. I am trying to piece together all available information, so that I can understand who and what is God.

I don't buy the nonsense about doing good deeds in other to accumulate merit or to find favour in God's eyes. People who do so often live in fear all their lives, are hypocrites, and usually turn out to be some sort of closet faggot, pedophile or wife abuser.
I agree that we all should be good.

What we differ is on why we choose to do good. I do good because I am already secure in God and enjoy his forgiveness and favour. Whether I choose to do good or not, it has no relevance in my standing before God. I am righteous before God whether I choose to do charity or whether I choose to mind my own business. I do good and volunteer at the RC and church as a reflection of how good God has been for me. I'm not more righteous because I volunteer more often.

Other people may be doing good because they hope their good deeds can outweigh their bad deeds. People don't eat certain foods because if they do, all the good they do is wiped out and they are immediately unclean before God. That's how I fire employees who did well in past years but fail to meet my expectations in the most recent year.

I don't buy this nonsense too. We do good because we want to, because our soul tells us to. Our brain is just a collection of neurons and chemicals. It stores memory and controls our nervous system. It is our soul that stores our moral values (or lack of). Things like guilt, kindness, compassion,love etc. All humans have souls, regardless of religion or no religion. Hence, I am of the view that religion is most helpful in conditioning and enriching our souls. But we can grow our souls without religion too.

 

[nightsafari]

But we can grow our souls without religion too.

ever ridden bicycle with training wheels? that is what modern day religion is for our souls. before, it was a sword, then it became sheep pen.

 

[glockman]

so you have been reading ultimaonline's books...

is it so obvious? I like to read on those topics so I can ponder and come to conclusions. That's not to say I will not have a different conclusion when I read other stuff!

 

[nightsafari]

is it so obvious? I like to read on those topics so I can ponder and come to conclusions. That's not to say I will not have a different conclusion when I read other stuff!

that's why it's called expanding the mind...

 

[glockman]

uh... this one is possible to go either way.... I don't know if more people have been saved or died because of religion.



uh... no. sorli to disagree hor... good, conscious, considered actions are the path to a good life and afterlife. Some human cultures did that long before religion came into existence. Religion is designed for those who wish not to consider the possibility of horrific consequences. That is their inherent appeal. The version that you see nowadays does have a moral code built in, but that came much later.

I like to look at the positive aspects of religion. The parts where it teaches good. The fact that good, conscious, considered actions existed before religion is testament that the human soul is always yearning to do good. Religion came about to help. And yes, to divide too.

 

[glockman]

I like to look at the positive aspects of religion. The parts where it teaches good. The fact that good, conscious, considered actions existed before religion is testament that the human soul is always yearning to do good. Religion came about to help. And yes, to divide too.

Anything that is man-made will fuck up sometime, somehow!

 

[nightsafari]

I like to look at the positive aspects of religion. The parts where it teaches good. The fact that good, conscious, considered actions existed before religion is testament that the human soul is always yearning to do good. Religion came about to help. And yes, to divide too.

yah lah. I propose that you are seeing what you're already primed to see. The aspects there that already resonate with you. Another reader, say for example a certain regular who believes in Jesus, will see what he wants to see.

So you see. it's still down to you and your soul. geddit?

 

[nightsafari]

Anything that is man-made will fuck up sometime, somehow!

yah lah.

 

[glockman]

yah lah. I propose that you are seeing what you're already primed to see. The aspects there that already resonate with you. Another reader, say for example a certain regular who believes in Jesus, will see what he wants to see.

So you see. it's still down to you and your soul. geddit?

Yes, I get it. I need to listen to more soul music, right?

 

[nightsafari]

Yes, I get it. I need to listen to more soul music, right?

too bad james brown dead...

 

[glockman]

too bad james brown dead...

Yeah, he was the Godfather.

 

[hofmann]

uh... no. sorli to disagree hor... good, conscious, considered actions are the path to a good life and afterlife. Some human cultures did that long before religion came into existence. Religion is designed for those who wish not to consider the possibility of horrific consequences. That is their inherent appeal. The version that you see nowadays does have a moral code built in, but that came much later.

Have u read Homo Deus by Yuval Harari? Amongst other things, he gives a good narrative of the rise of religion (its purpose to fit civilization of the times) and it's obsolescence in this day and age.

If you haven't read it, you might like it.

 

[hofmann]

Sin has to be atoned for. You can die for your sins in this life and burn in hell, or someone else can do it on your behalf. That's what Jesus did.

This contradicts everything you said about atonement.

So all you fuckers let brother Jesus take one for the team and y'all get an autopass into heaven if you believe in him.

Right....

Good try!

 

[bonds]

We don't know what will happen tomorrow!
Lets take one day at a time.
Do not be unduly worried.