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Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover up?

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
PTE Lee’s family says they are not seeking revenge – His death will be in vain if SAF denies mistakes

PTE Dominique Sarron Lee’s family has responded to the recent letter by MINDEF on their Facebook page, and we reproduce their note in full here.


We refer to MINDEF’s letter to The Straits Times Forum (NSF’s death and family’s bid to sue: MINDEF replies) on 18 March 2016. MINDEF in this latest reply, continues to evade answering the real questions the family has been asking these past years.

Yes, the coroner’s inquiry (CI) in August 2013 was a seemingly transparent process, taking the form of an open hearing fully accessible to the public and media. Yes, we, the family of Dominique, and our legal counsel were also present, and given opportunities to address questions relating to Dominique’s death. And yes, we did post our questions at the CI; however, most of the questions were not answered.

According to the State Court website, the role of the CI is to determine findings relating to factual matters such as:

The identity of the deceased
Where and when the deceased died; and
How the deceased died, namely, the circumstances connected with the death and the cause of death.

The website also stated that “[t]he coroner will not frame a finding in such a way as to determine any question of criminal, civil or disciplinary liability on the part of any person or persons. As such, his findings will be factual and neutral”.

Hence, while we do not dispute with the factual findings of the CI, we do disagree with the coroner determining that Dominique’s allergic reaction was “unlikely to have been predicted”, as this framing is subjective and unsubstantiated.

Just as MINDEF has reiterated, the coroner had indeed found that Dominique had died from “acute allergic reaction to zinc chloride due to inhalation of zinc chloride fumes”. However, MINDEF has conveniently not reminded the public that the CI had also found that SAF had used excessive smoke grenades in the exercise that resulted in Dominique’s untimely death, and that none of those involved in the exercise on 17 April 2012 had any knowledge or training on the significance of the blue tag that Dominique was required to wear (and was wearing at the time of the incident) at all times. In addition, the CI had also revealed that the combat medic did not have adequate equipment to handle the dire situation at the time of the incident.

We have never disagreed with the factual findings of the CI. In fact, it is precisely these factual findings that further convinced us that MINDEF/SAF had indeed been negligent in their duty to ensure the health and safety of every National Service man and hence, must be held accountable for Dominique’s death.

We had requested at the CI that the forensic pathologist and MINDEF Respiratory Advisory Board’s reports to be made public. However, this request was refused. We had also requested the presence of the forensic pathologist and any of the five senior respiratory medicine specialist from MINDEF’s Respiratory Advisory Board at the CI, to provide answers to some of our questions, but this request was also denied. Needless to say, many of the questions we asked during the CI also received no answers.

It is startling that MINDEF/SAF, and now the AGC, are espousing the defence on the very subjective and unsubstantiated claim made by the CI that the allergic reaction Dominique suffered was “unlikely to have been predicted”. The TSR must have been designed for a reason, and it must have been implemented for a reason. If the TSR can be breached with no consequence, then it makes a mockery of its existence. In the case of Dominique, it was precisely the breach of the TSR that resulted in his death.

To rule that the breach is not the direct cause of Dominique’s death is a judgment that defies logic. Yet we are unsurprised that the AGC had decided against prosecuting anyone based on only this one non-factual finding amidst other pertinent factual ones surfaced during the CI, because the AGC is the counsel for MINDEF in this case and hence, its decision must and will favour MINDEF’s defence. The family disagrees that this is what one would consider an “independent and impartial” judgment, or a fair conclusion to the entire process.

It is a known fact that all asthmatic NSFs, including Dominique, are exempted from Chemical Defence Training where they are subjected to high concentration of zinc chloride. This fact was verified by the Platoon Commander at the CI. This exemption suggests that all decision makers in MINDEF/SAF, including both officers in this incident, knew or at least suspected that the concentration rather than the mere presence of zinc chloride would pose a danger to asthmatic NSFs. How then, can they declare unashamedly that the allergic reaction was “unlikely to have been predicted”?

There is enough medical information online, available to anyone who cares to search, about the dangers of high concentrations of zinc chloride, especially to asthmatics. Did MINDEF/SAF not have access to such easily available information when they approved the use of smoke grenades that contain zinc chloride in training? Did they not consult experts on the effects of these smoke grenades on individuals when drafting the TSR, which every training officer must to comply with? To claim that such allergic reaction as the one Dominique suffered was unforeseen and “unlikely to have been predicted” strongly suggests that MINDEF/SAF had not done their homework before exposing all NSF to the dangers of the smoke grenades all these years.

We are not asking, nor have we ever asked that the 2 SAF regulars bear greater liability for Dominique’s death, and to receive greater punishment than what they deserve. Our case has always been with MINDEF/SAF’s lack of accountability and transparency. To date, MINDEF/SAF has not revealed the exact punishment that has been meted out.

Hence, it would be impossible for anyone other than MINDEF/SAF itself, to determine if the punishment is indeed within the level of offence, and to determine the veracity of its independent and impartial judicial processes.

If MINDEF/SAF and the AGC are confident of their findings and processes, then the MINDEF/SAF should not invoke S14 of the Government Proceeding Act (S14 GPA), but should welcome the Court to independently and impartially study all the evidence available, including those offered by the forensic pathologist and MINDEF’s Respiratory Advisory Board, to arrive at a fair conclusion. It is only when MINDEF/SAF allows itself to be questioned in the open Court, and readily makes available all the evidence of the case, that the public can continue to have the highest confidence in the SAF.

We want Singaporeans to know that we are not going through this legal battle to exact revenge or to seek financial gains. We are looking for answers to explain how this tragic incident could have happened and to seek assurance that it will not happen again. MINDEF/SAF has not shown any contrition in its replies thus far, and is continuing to deny us the truth. Dominique’s death will be in vain, if MINDEF/SAF continues to deny its mistakes and refuses to learn from them.

We cannot bring Dominique back but we can, through his tragic death, put right all the things that have gone wrong. The public cannot continue to trust MINDEF/SAF if it refuses to come clean and be accountable for its actions.
We had proceeded with the legal suit because we could not get answers from MINDEF/SAF at the CI. And when we realized the presence of the law that discriminates the ones who are tasked to protect us, we are more resolved in wanting to highlight this injustice. It is with this resolve that we have decided to appeal against the High Court judgment.

It is only when we have exhausted all legal avenues that our legislators cannot argue in Parliament that the legal channels were not exhausted hence the law need not be reviewed.

The High Court judgment has brought to the attention of many Singaporeans, the unjust law that we have currently, and we owe it to Dominique, and all other NSF who have suffered and/or will suffer the same injustice, to fight against it.

We urge the public to demand that their Member(s) of Parliament rectify this injustice. S14 of the GPA needs to be repealed or at the very least, updated, to ensure that justice and equality are not just words in a tagline.
Finally, we would like to seek MINDEF’s support in helping us find closure by answering the questions we have asked, starting with those we posted in our previous statement. Please refer to our previous statement on the 8th of March 2016.
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

There is no need to open new wounds for the family of the deceased. Yes, let's move on. Stay together, move forward. For you, with you, for Singapore.
 

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Mindef and many of us are getting sick of this dead private's family. They are biting at the heels like some mad dog. They should really give this matter a rest before they end up bankrupted and completely discredited like another chee or JBJ.
 

virus

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Mindef and many of us are getting sick of this dead private's family. They are biting at the heels like some mad dog. They should really give this matter a rest before they end up bankrupted and completely discredited like another chee or JBJ.

If you sick you should see doctor. Zika like Aids can transmit from cheese to languor n in matters of days you can die horribly. Then the coroner will conveniently say you got heart attack and die from heat stroke during bonking. So RC not responsible n they can save the blanket for your funeral
 

Narong Wongwan

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

The family should be honored son as human sacrifice to appease lky evil spirit.
Never see the 2 mat families kpkb like them.....
Mat sinkies are more docile that chink sinkies
 

batman1

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

This tragedy will not happen if her son is a
White knight.anyway 70% have voted for them.
U won't get justice.maybe just to let the whole world
Know about it ,no accountabiliy n nepotism in this country.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

Mindef and many of us are getting sick of this dead private's family. They are biting at the heels like some mad dog. They should really give this matter a rest before they end up bankrupted and completely discredited like another chee or JBJ.

If that was my son, I will badger them & curse SAF till the day I die.....you are talking about somebody's son dead...if this was yours, I am sure you gonna shrug your shoulders & say....he died for the nation...how magnanimous of you!:p
 

enterprise2

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

In Sinkiepoor, u must fight tooth and nail for your rights,,otherwise u will be steamrolled. More so if u r local as we r considered 'liabilities' by garment!
 

shittypore

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

There is no need to open new wounds for the family of the deceased. Yes, let's move on. Stay together, move forward. For you, with you, for Singapore.

Move On, if that was not your Son that was dead, 70% has already agree with you.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

In Sinkiepoor, u must fight tooth and nail for your rights,,otherwise u will be steamrolled. More so if u r local as we r considered 'liabilities' by garment!

During my time in National Slavery, a case like this would have been covered up & not even leaked out to the public, the boy would just get what the SAF will give out, most likely 'coffin expenses' & that's all. Nowadays people are much aware of what they can do, for they have the education & the resources & money to question!....but still we are still short of knowing what are our RIGHTS as a CITIZEN? For example, the recent schoolboy molest case....they go round in circles finding excuses to deflect the blame as usual.....but nobody , even the parents question the RIGHTS OF THE BOY....the schools & society must be educated on their RIGHTS.

What is the bloody use of all of us, including the kids, everyday of their lives, mouthing the PLEDGE..when they do not even know the RIGHTS OF A CITIZEN...

where is the "justice & equality"....:rolleyes:
 

shittypore

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

During my time in National Slavery, a case like this would have been covered up & not even leaked out to the public, the boy would just get what the SAF will give out, most likely 'coffin expenses' & that's all. Nowadays people are much aware of what they can do, for they have the education & the resources & money to question!....but still we

What is the bloody use of all of us, including the kids, everyday of their lives, mouthing the PLEDGE..when they do not even know the RIGHTS OF A CITIZEN...

where is the "justice & equality"....:rolleyes:

For only the Elites and MIW, Slaves hve no right, we only pray that our Sons returned hme safely aft 2yrs of NATIONAL SLAVERY.
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

During my time in National Slavery, a case like this would have been covered up & not even leaked out to the public, the boy would just get what the SAF will give out, most likely 'coffin expenses' & that's all. Nowadays people are much aware of what they can do, for they have the education & the resources & money to question!....but still we are still short of knowing what are our RIGHTS as a CITIZEN? For example, the recent schoolboy molest case....they go round in circles finding excuses to deflect the blame as usual.....but nobody , even the parents question the RIGHTS OF THE BOY....the schools & society must be educated on their RIGHTS.

What is the bloody use of all of us, including the kids, everyday of their lives, mouthing the PLEDGE..when they do not even know the RIGHTS OF A CITIZEN...

where is the "justice & equality"....:rolleyes:

According to someone who made sure his "exceptional" family members were more equal than others, the pledge is only supposed to be an "aspiration". :wink:
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

if there isn't anything detrimental, surely should have no problem releasing those reports. that should conclude the case for family of the deceased. my bet is, something in the report isn't meant for the majority. mindef needs to guard the report with everything in their arsenal.
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

In Sinkiepoor, u must fight tooth and nail for your rights,,otherwise u will be steamrolled. More so if u r local as we r considered 'liabilities' by garment!

Luckily for Singaporeans, there are still people like Chee Soon Juan and John Tan from SDP who are willing to speak up for our rights. :wink:
 

shittypore

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

if there isn't anything detrimental, surely should have no problem releasing those reports. that should conclude the case for family of the deceased. my bet is, something in the report isn't meant for the majority. mindef needs to guard the report with everything in their arsenal.

So the COI is just for show and to please the MIW bosses.
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

So the COI is just for show and to please the MIW bosses.

name me just 1 COI that is 100% objective. lots of activities place place behind the COI and the most important factor is to protect the government. why not let a neutral party be involved? you have WP MPs who should be able to understand and contribute. get them involved.
 

shittypore

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

name me just 1 COI that is 100% objective. lots of activities place place behind the COI and the most important factor is to protect the government. why not let a neutral party be involved? you have WP MPs who should be able to understand and contribute. get them involved.

Sigh.... we no better than those 3rd world countries, yet they are paid Millions to get the job done right!
 

steffychun

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

why no one storm the barricades yet? You people have no guts
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

During my time in National Slavery, a case like this would have been covered up & not even leaked out to the public, the boy would just get what the SAF will give out, most likely 'coffin expenses' & that's all. Nowadays people are much aware of what they can do, for they have the education & the resources & money to question!....but still we are still short of knowing what are our RIGHTS as a CITIZEN? For example, the recent schoolboy molest case....they go round in circles finding excuses to deflect the blame as usual.....but nobody , even the parents question the RIGHTS OF THE BOY....the schools & society must be educated on their RIGHTS.

What is the bloody use of all of us, including the kids, everyday of their lives, mouthing the PLEDGE..when they do not even know the RIGHTS OF A CITIZEN...

where is the "justice & equality"....:rolleyes:

Not really. The difference between your days and now is the advent of the internet and social media. Even without going to court, the parents would have created a big stink on FB, twitter, blogs, etc any number of social media outlets. Look at what Roy and Amos have been able to do. Under those circumstances the SAF have no choice but to go publicly to court and then discredit the parent's allegations that way. The PAP would very much like to sue the parents for slander and libel but the optics of doing that would look very heartless to the public. So, its better to run them through a kangaroo court and show the public the SAF was innocent and then shift some blame on the boy.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Re: Dead NS boy family ask for forensic report, MINDEF tell them to fuck off, cover u

name me just 1 COI that is 100% objective. lots of activities place place behind the COI and the most important factor is to protect the government. why not let a neutral party be involved? you have WP MPs who should be able to understand and contribute. get them involved.

WP MPs have been very quiet on this, and it appears the last thing they want to do is to be involved. Just call them PAP Lite.
 
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