Tan Chuan Jin - Singapore's Best Manpower Minister?

[3_M]

Will they find some other weaknesses in PAP and hammer away at them? Or will they be congenial enough to acknowledge what the PAP have done, but still maintain that it's not enough, or it's too little too late? Do they have the ability to undo the mistakes of the past that the PAP have made? If they have alternate plans for Singapore, can they articulate and move us forwards towards those plans before the PAP gets there first? Is Singapore going to wait for the PAP to reform, or do we have a better chance once the opposition gets strong enough to steer the ship?


More general questions: can the PAP and the opposition work together for a better Singapore, or do we throw the PAP out before we have a better Singapore, or maybe a better Singapore isn't that important: let's throw out the PAP first and then we'll talk?

Let face it, no matter how badly PAP screwed up, they will still remain in power because voters don't see voting for the alternative replacement under such circumstances as a solution forward. In fact PAP always fare better during difficult times. GE2001 is a classical example.

i can responsibly tell you if opposition is campaigning to takeover the gov when it obvious they aren't ready, it will only scare more people to vote for PAP.

 

[metalmickey]

Let face it, no matter how badly PAP screwed up, they will still remain in power because voters don't see voting for the alternative replacement under such circumstances as a solution forward. In fact PAP always fare better during difficult times. GE2001 is a classical example.

i can responsibly tell you if opposition is campaigning to takeover the gov when it obvious they aren't ready, it will only scare more people to vote for PAP.

No, I think 2011 could be considered a "difficult time" because of all the problems. And the PAP didn't fare well.

People were enthusiastic about the "new normal" because it seemed that things would "only get better". But whatever it is, there are only a few possibilities:

1. Everything goes on as before, nothing changes, PAP supremacy in the long run doesn't get challenged.
2. The PAP is still running things, but because their power is challenged, they are more scared and either try to be more deceptive or run things better.
3. Power sharing between PAP and the opposition. By coincidence the US has a divided govt (because different parties run the White House and congress) and the UK has divided govt.
4. The opposition runs Singapore.

I believe I've covered the possibilities, unless you've thought of something else. So under the different scenarios, we'll try to figure out which one we like the best. I think a lot of people like 2 and 3. But we have to seriously consider 4 as well.

I don't think the opposition are ready to run Singapore, but in fact that was my reason to support them, because you have to push them into battle. Then we can bring into action a process whereby all the useless members of the opposition are weeded out. That's the only way to make them stronger.

We fight for freedom, we fight against tyranny, that is the obvious first step. Everybody can be united under one cause. Then the second step? That's when it becomes tricky. Everybody has his own notion of what "a better Singapore" means.

 

[rushifa666]

please agree that if things stay the same our children are fucked. then what to do becomes clear

 

[virus]

dunno... after paying a king's ransom for office chairs... now they switched to disposable office chairs. see today's gebiz. i wunder why....

 

[metalmickey]

please agree that if things stay the same our children are fucked. then what to do becomes clear

First part I agree with you. What to do becomes clear is not true. You have one guy telling me that it's "obvious" that the opposition is not ready to assume power, and you have another guy telling me that he doesn't want option 1, but he can't tell me whether he wants 2, 3 or 4, and yet "what to do becomes clear". That is not acceptable.

I see this all the time. I ask ppl do you think that the PAP should continue running the show, they say no. Vote them out now. OK, fine.

Then I ask them, so you do think that the opposition should know how to run this thing, right? They say, it's OK, maybe they're not there yet. Then I ask them, will they ever get there? Then I get chided for "fear mongering".

OK, I say, why don't we try and decide what kind of Singapore we want and then we vote in PAP or opposition based on what we want? Then they tell me they do not actually know what they want.

You know, we are transitioning into a democracy soon. It used to be "this is a good guy, vote for him". But that is what got us the PAP supermajority in the first place. We are used to thinking "this is a good guy, he can't go wrong" and we voted the PAP in year after year. Maybe we're doing the same thing to the opposition now:

Step 1: Do I like this guy?
Step 2: Vote for the guy you like.

Let me propose an alternate formula for you that I think would work better. See whether you like it.
Step 1: decide for yourself how you want Singapore to be run.
Step 2: Listen to the PAP.
Step 3: Listen to the opposition
Step 4: decide for yourself which one you like better.
Step 5: Based on step 4, vote.

Sounds simple right? Bullshit. Everybody will skip either step 2 or step 3, and most people will skip step 1.

 

[Rumpole]

......

Let me propose an alternate formula for you that I think would work better. See whether you like it.
Step 1: decide for yourself how you want Singapore to be run.
Step 2: Listen to the PAP.
Step 3: Listen to the opposition
Step 4: decide for yourself which one you like better.
Step 5: Based on step 4, vote.

Sounds simple right? Bullshit. Everybody will skip either step 2 or step 3, and most people will skip step 1.

Do Sinkies require their political parties to have written election manifestoes? Will they be able to analyse and poke holes in those documents? Or will they be just too lazy and vote for the party that is in the position to give them the most "freebies"?

[video=youtube;W-XjIuIgQsw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-XjIuIgQsw[/video]

 

[rushifa666]

its the abusive husband syndrome no? maybe tomorrow will be better. until he kills here one day. there is no excuse for any other course of action. nothing will be accomplished by staying at step one

 

[metalmickey]

its the abusive husband syndrome no? maybe tomorrow will be better. until he kills here one day. there is no excuse for any other course of action. nothing will be accomplished by staying at step one

Yes but:

1. You don't have an option of staying single after getting rid of the abusive husband. You have to marry another husband and hope that the second husband is better than the one that you just got rid of.

2. You don't know that the second husband is actually a better one. Until you marry him. Although you can choose from as many as you like. You can get rid of Chiang Kai Shek, and end up with a Mao Zedong, and then you'd be wondering "what the hell was I thinking".

You can look for a better life. But IT HAS TO BE BETTER.

 

[TracyTan866]

please agree that if things stay the same our children are fucked. then what to do becomes clear

yes, if things don't change, SG will crumble

 

[TracyTan866]

its the abusive husband syndrome no? maybe tomorrow will be better. until he kills here one day. there is no excuse for any other course of action. nothing will be accomplished by staying at step one

yes, we cant remain in the same bad situation and not want to seek change for the better

 

[blindswordsman]

Sinkies are now unhappy with the Govt. What can TCJ do? Not much really. He is still PAP. Whether TCJ is good or not, time will tell. One party rule is not good for sinkie land now. A strong opposition in Parliament is needed. GRC is no longer a defensive shield to block WP and other opposition parties from entering Parliament. You reap what you sow. PAP created GRC and in future, GRC would be the downfall of PAP. Aljunied GRC is the first, others to follow. Bet your bottom dollar.

 

[TracyTan866]

Sinkies are now unhappy with the Govt. What can TCJ do? Not much really. He is still PAP. Whether TCJ is good or not, time will tell. One party rule is not good for sinkie land now. A strong opposition in Parliament is needed. GRC is no longer a defensive shield to block WP and other opposition parties from entering Parliament. You reap what you sow. PAP created GRC and in future, GRC would be the downfall of PAP. Aljunied GRC is the first, others to follow. Bet your bottom dollar.

if TCJ is as good as what the pap said, then by sheer intellect and logic, he can be an agent of change. if he cant change the wrongs, then he is useless.

I see a glimmer of hope from the way he has influenced MOM and I wait with bated breathe to see real changes from MOM

 

[freedalas]

It has been repeated many many times before: GE 2011 was a watershed election. So there is the pre-2011 blur fuck PAP, or at least super-arrogant PAP who believed that they were as invulnerable as they had been in the last 40 years since Lee Siew Choh committed harakiri and delivered parliament to the PAP on a platter.

Since then the elections have cured the PAP of some of its arrogance, although far from all of it. What they now say is that they're going to be more leftist. It's true that they have been far to the right of what many Singaporeans feel comfortable with, and now they are trying to change course.

Question is: how much will the elites give back? If you give back too much, they'll fear that the foreign business owners - and let's face it, increasingly the foreign businesses are the rulers of Singapore - will leave and not come back. If they give back too little, the voters will leave and not come back. How much power will the PAP concede? Will they just do a few token things and wayang here and there and hope that the hearts of the voters will soften, or will they try to be the PAP of old, trying to make a rising tide lift all boats?

And that's the PAP - I'm sure most people aren't really interested in the PAP here. So let's talk about the opposition. What's left for the opposition? Because for all the progress that they've made in the last few years, they're still some distance away from steering the ship.

Will they find some other weaknesses in PAP and hammer away at them? Or will they be congenial enough to acknowledge what the PAP have done, but still maintain that it's not enough, or it's too little too late? Do they have the ability to undo the mistakes of the past that the PAP have made? If they have alternate plans for Singapore, can they articulate and move us forwards towards those plans before the PAP gets there first? Is Singapore going to wait for the PAP to reform, or do we have a better chance once the opposition gets strong enough to steer the ship?

Anyway - back to the topic. You compare the cabinet line up of say 2009 to today, you will find that almost a revolution has taken place. Half of them are going or they're gone. I think I could name 10 people who aren't there anymore. You now have younger people who can start on a clean slate. They may or may not be the fuckers their predecessor have been, but we don't know. We only know that the potential for change is there. Tan Chuan Jin is young and handsome and he can make Tracy Tan wet between the legs. But can the PAP win the people over? Is this change of direction for real or is this more wayang while they tekan us behind the scenes?

More general questions: can the PAP and the opposition work together for a better Singapore, or do we throw the PAP out before we have a better Singapore, or maybe a better Singapore isn't that important: let's throw out the PAP first and then we'll talk?

Thanks metalmickey for the very insightful comments. But I wouldn't be too harsh on TracyTan as she's really on our side. As to your questions in the last para, I am a believer in getting rid of the PAP entirely if we want to see real changes for the Old Fart's DNA is too deeply embedded into the PAP already and so Spore will continue to be run pretty much the same way as long as it is in power. Vote the PAP out in 2016 if there is to be to be hope for our future generations.

 

[bryanlim1972]

i apologize for joining this thread late. Tracy is right. TCJ - don't quit yet, now is not the time. you are one of the good guys.

 

[bryanlim1972]

Old Fart's DNA is too deeply embedded into the PAP already and so Spore will continue to be run pretty much the same way as long as it is in power. Vote the PAP out in 2016 if there is to be to be hope for our future generations.

is it better to deal with a devil you know? or a devil you don't?

There are many things my father taught me here in this room. He taught me: keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

 

[TracyTan866]

i apologize for joining this thread late. Tracy is right. TCJ - don't quit yet, now is not the time. you are one of the good guys.

so far, I see a glimmer of hope in TCJ, HSK and CCS.

The biggest disappointments, after WKS, MBT and RL, are TCH, LSS, VB. TCH, LSS and VB are stuck in their old ways and are resistant to change despite Singaporeans' sufferings due to bad pap policies

I hope that TCJ, HSK and CCS can spearhead and chart a new chapter for the pap and bring in much needed change to SG

 

[bryanlim1972]

VB is an interesting character. he began on the far left, got co-opted into the far right, and now he thinks he's committed too much to back track.

so far, I see a glimmer of hope in TCJ, HSK and CCS.

The biggest disappointments, after WKS, MBT and RL, are TCH, LSS, VB. TCH, LSS and VB are stuck in their old ways and are resistant to change despite Singaporeans' sufferings due to bad pap policies

I hope that TCJ, HSK and CCS can spearhead and chart a new chapter for the pap and bring in much needed change to SG

 

[Marilyn]

i apologize for joining this thread late. Tracy is right. TCJ - don't quit yet, now is not the time. you are one of the good guys.

Being partial to ACS boys, I initially thought so too. He has that hang-dog look that is very endearing, and was made the posterboy of everything.

He emoted over the railway, doggies and kitties, Bukit Brown etc....but in the end, all had to go. That's when I thought he sold out and stopped believing in him...but I still think he's kinda hawt

 

[ZorrorroZ]

VB is an interesting character. he began on the far left, got co-opted into the far right, and now he thinks he's committed too much to back track.

VB is afraid of losing his material gains.

 

[TracyTan866]

VB is an interesting character. he began on the far left, got co-opted into the far right, and now he thinks he's committed too much to back track.

money and power do wonders to a guy