Under Contract with Starhub? You can terminate without consequence!

[khunking]

Dear Momo,

How are you lately? I guess the folks without binding contracts that came with freebies should get out as soon as possible. Other aspects of StarHub's service have not been up to standard recently.

Lastly, say no to Vedic extremists.

Yellow,

I didn't want to reply at first simply because I am not a fan of racial slurs and racist posts.

But if you want to refrain from that and engage me constructively, I would be more than happy to reply in the future.

Cheers,

MM

 

[longbow]

MM

The way you put it, it seems like a simple case. Why wouldn't any young gungho lawyer take up the case - FOC - in return for the great publicity.

If he wins court cost as well as his legal fees would be paid. He could easily get agrieved Starhub subscribers to sign on to his lawsuit via forums like this and hardware zone.

I believe that Singapore courts will be fair and impartial since this would be contract law and would affect the business env if investors were to think that the courts were unfair.

 

[moolightaffairs]

why must watch soccer? dun watch can die meh? live match must pay, watch liao want to gamble. pay again. so good to watch meh? internet got free streaming live match. but people dun wan to watch. sigh!!! me dun even want to watch!

 

[MentisMortis]

Dear Momo,

How are you lately? I guess the folks without binding contracts that came with freebies should get out as soon as possible. Other aspects of StarHub's service have not been up to standard recently.

Lastly, say no to Vedic extremists.

Hello King,

Nice to hear from you, it surely has been a while. I am doing fine, thank you. I hope you are too.

Yes, folks who are not bound by any contracts should immediately terminate services. This may force Starhub to come up with something more reasonably priced and offer better packages.

I agree, Starhub is merely running on subscribers' patience, gullibility and ignorance simply because the regional pay tv operators are not as expensive and offer a lot more for a lot less.

Hopefully Sgeans wake up and realise that there is something constantly stuck up their rears, i.e, the eternally screwing given to them by the PAP.

Cheers,

MM

 

[MentisMortis]

MM

The way you put it, it seems like a simple case. Why wouldn't any young gungho lawyer take up the case - FOC - in return for the great publicity.

If he wins court cost as well as his legal fees would be paid. He could easily get agrieved Starhub subscribers to sign on to his lawsuit via forums like this and hardware zone.

I believe that Singapore courts will be fair and impartial since this would be contract law and would affect the business env if investors were to think that the courts were unfair.

Hi Longbow,

It isn't that simple, not by a long shot. I try to make it simple so that people understand that they have rights too and not to swallow the crap that the SPH is dishing out.

Ghost writers aplenty keep saying that it's a pity those on contracts have no choice to continue paying for something they shouldn't in the first place.

I don't know, perhaps some lawyer may want to take up this case if it is brought to his attention. The problem is that lawyers in Sg cannot solicit for cases, any lawyer worth his salt knows the boundaries.

Yes, indeed it would seem a little funny if the courts do not apply the fundamentals in contract law if a case goes before it and yes it will have repercussions on all contracts thereto.

Cheers,

MM

 

[MentisMortis]

<style></style>MM,this is off the cuff and digressing...But noble professions such as medical,accountancy and law has gone to the dogs...I am no lawyer but you are and surely you know the status quo of the legal fraternity here...The average Doc in a HDB heartland now does MM and pimp multi vitamins to survive.The one man accountants had gone the way of dinosaurs.Accountants make it big only with the big 5 who do 'creative accounting' for fortune 500.In short cook the books for big shots..Likewise,legal firms of 2 to 3 partners cannot survive anymore as individual litigation and criminal cases does not bring that much money to upkeep their status--except save a few.Only those firms with at least a dozen or so lawyers have some chance of survival.And they cannot survive without the patronage of big firms as their patrons...Perhaps shipping and Maritime lawyers are exception.

As the saying goes 'you are what you eat'..Soon any budding lawyer becomes as the greedy lot they keep company.To make thing worse ,any law firm that is not in the panel of banks or statutory/ quasi gahman is a sure goner...JBJ is an example.I rest my case.

Hi Gook,

I agree. It's a sad thing that the legal fraternity chooses to do nothing when blatant transgressions occur. The thing is almost all organisations in Sg have been castrated and that's why some people have resorted to even representing themselves in court simply because they do not trust that lawyers will have their interest at heart.

Professional jobs are no longer what they used to be and the prestige and honour in those jobs are fast eroding simply because money and greed as always taints one's idealism, integrity and other such virtues. Your observation is quite true for the most part.

Even Shipping and Maritime lawyers are finding it hard these days with a good 40% to 50% of the world's ships parked in safe harbours all over the globe with nothing to freight.

Finally, there is no one that can compare to the likes of David Marshall and JBJ. No upcoming lawyers that can hold a candle to them. But this must be said, that David Marshall did weigh his options and did what he thought was best for him and took the PAP's offer.
JBJ on the other hand stayed to fight against all odds and as we know he paid the price but still fought on.

Well they were the last of that breed, as for me, I too am leaving, in less than 10 days I should be out of this country for good.

There is nothing left to fight for IMHO, Sg as a whole is going to the dogs. Just imagine third world people inhabiting a first world country, soon this island will be one big public toilet.

Cheers,

MM

 

[GoFlyKiteNow]

MM

The way you put it, it seems like a simple case. Why wouldn't any young gungho lawyer take up the case - FOC - in return for the great publicity.

If he wins court cost as well as his legal fees would be paid. He could easily get agrieved Starhub subscribers to sign on to his lawsuit via forums like this and hardware zone.

I believe that Singapore courts will be fair and impartial since this would be contract law and would affect the business env if investors were to think that the courts were unfair.

Three months ago, a person I know, signed up for 2 year Starhub mobile phone connection. He had also applied to have his existing number from another telco provider to be transferred and retained - for which Starhub charged him. The line was supposed to be active in 2 working days.

However, after 5 days the number was not active and a few complaints later, he asked Starhub to terminate the contract. They told him there will be a cancellation penalty of 500 dollars. He wrote back that since Starhub had failed to keep their end of the contract, he has a right to cancel without penalty and that he will take his case to the small claims court.

Starhub did cancel the contract eventually without any penalty and refunded him the initial charges he had paid.

I think, the law is there.
It is for people to use it appropriately.

 

[scroobal]

MM is right. Contract can specify many things and also can clear absolve the party from liability etc but if there is an expectation of certain primary service that cannot be provided the court will look at it favourably.

Most people are aware of these things but do not pursue the legal angle in view of cost involved. They treat penalities when it is small as nuisance factor.

The class action suit is cost efefctive but the Singapore Courts will not allow joint action but arrangement can be made using one set of legal representatives to share the cost and filing the strong case first. I am sure by then, Starhub will provide alternatives and sweetners when they get first whiff of legal ganging, the chickenshit GLC that they are.

 

[soIsee]

Dear MM

I believe Sillypore particularly the peasans need someone like you to wise them up but then of course, is this even worth doing since peasants don't get any wiser with sound advice?

You are right about the contract thingy but looking deeper you will realised that SH management is definitely in turmoil.

Imagine losing the most important part of the thing the crown jewel ( Sport channels) that consitute their 'rice bowl' and they are still promoting their services with strong advertisment presently!

There will definitely be heads rolling and ppl quiting soon within their management ranks and I can't imagine that they will have much energy left trying to keep their present subscription base intact once their rights for the Sport channel runs out!

 

[MentisMortis]

Dear MM

I believe Sillypore particularly the peasans need someone like you to wise them up but then of course, is this even worth doing since peasants don't get any wiser with sound advice?

You are right about the contract thingy but looking deeper you will realised that SH management is definitely in turmoil.

Imagine losing the most important part of the thing the crown jewel ( Sport channels) that consitute their 'rice bowl' and they are still promoting their services with strong advertisment presently!

There will definitely be heads rolling and ppl quiting soon within their management ranks and I can't imagine that they will have much energy left trying to keep their present subscription base intact once their rights for the Sport channel runs out!

Dear sIs ,

Thanks for the kind words, as long as one person out of the many here understands their rights I think I have done my part. As long as one person undertands that they should not just roll over and take this shit that the SPH is dishing out, I am glad. There is no such thing as "it's a sad thing that subscribers have to bear with it" and have 2 set top boxes.

Sg has changed so much over the last 2 years that I have decided to leave this place for good. Nothing seems to be about Singapore as a nation anymore, it's all about the money and business and the economy. While that is a good thing one cannot continue to put it above everything else while many who have homes here suffer the brunt of depressed wages and unchanging incomes with burgeoning mortgages.

Sg has become nothing but a public toilet where all and sundry come, use it's resources and then leave a mess for those who remain to clean up behind them.

Now back to your point, even if heads roll in Starhub, it would be those of the juniors while the fat cats chewing on whale blubber in their penthouse office suites look down and say "What to do? It has happened."

The only way for Sgeans to fight back is with a mass termination, this will put the power back into the hands of the consumer and GLCs will no longer dictate terms.

Do you care if the management of SH is in turmoil, as a consumer I don't give a rat's arse, all that matters is that I get the best bang for my buck.

At the same time, I think this is a ploy, older brother, i.e. Singtel's Mio sucks big time and has fewer than 150K subscribers. For pay tv business in Sg, one has to have at least 350K subscribers to remain afloat much less turn profitable. So Starhub bids a lower price so big brother scores a coup and Sgeans are now screwed because they have to subscribe to both if they want the same content as before.

Then the final thrust before the climax, is that many know that Starhub will win the bid for the rights for the 2010 World Cup. Now you have to pay again to watch this. Starhub and Singtel then both clean themselves up, leaving the consumers hugging their pillows in a foetal position wondering what did they do to be treated in such a way.

3 months down the road, the process is repeated with another world class sporting event in the offing and you have to pay again to watch it, forgetting the curled up position you were in 3 months ago.

Like I said in my first post on this matter, which I ommitted in this one.

Stay and be treated like farm animals or leave and live like a human being.

Cheers,

MM

 

[tonychat]

Mentis brother, yeah..

You have set an unsinkified example for others but it is up to other to unsinkified and purified themselves to see the real Sg in their own eyes.

The only way for Sgeans to fight back is with a mass termination, this will put the power back into the hands of the consumer and GLCs will no longer dictate terms.

THat will require the sinkies to have their balls up and being unselfish and selfless and a sense of righteous, but does sinkies has all these 3 powerful and heaven-like virtues? i seriously doubt so.

Those with such virtues have long migrated out and live a life fit for a real human.

 

[tonychat]

There is nothing left to fight for IMHO, Sg as a whole is going to the dogs. Just imagine third world people inhabiting a first world country, soon this island will be one big public toilet.

That is because the people running it are of 3rd world level.

 

[MentisMortis]

That is because the people running it are of 3rd world level.

Hi tony,

Whatever it is even after I have left this country, it's true that SG will be the place I grew up and developed a career. I will never run this country down but will attribute all the problems today to the PAP.

40 years of running and digitising individuals like herd animals has come to this. The only thing we can do is to inform those around us of the real happenings so that they can make the right decision when the time comes. Even then, as the saying goes, one can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Most Sgeans have always been a timid lot. Some may wake up and realise and some may still slumber in ignorance.

Cheers,

MM

 

[yellow_people]

Three months ago, a person I know, signed up for 2 year Starhub mobile phone connection. He had also applied to have his existing number from another telco provider to be transferred and retained - for which Starhub charged him. The line was supposed to be active in 2 working days.

However, after 5 days the number was not active and a few complaints later, he asked Starhub to terminate the contract. They told him there will be a cancellation penalty of 500 dollars. He wrote back that since Starhub had failed to keep their end of the contract, he has a right to cancel without penalty and that he will take his case to the small claims court.

Starhub did cancel the contract eventually without any penalty and refunded him the initial charges he had paid.

I think, the law is there.
It is for people to use it appropriately.

I believe in your example, Starhub had no choice but to refund as they completely failed to provide reasonable service within a specified time to the consumer they entered a contract with. Hence they recinded and refunded the charges incurred back to the customer.

In the case of EPL, Starhub has the upper hand from a legal standpoint. Their terms and conditions CLEARLY stipulate they, "Starhub" reserves the right to alter or change the programming content provided. In this case the loss of the EPL bid to Singtel is beyond their control. Singtel won the bid. Likewise if a content provider goes bankrupt and is unable to continue the program or service; does that mean Starhub is liable for circumstances beyond their control?

For the 20 or so Ah Bengs MM is attempting to coax into a class action lawsuit - they would need to prove in a court of law Starhub is involved in price fixing and/or anti-competitive practices or market manipulation in order to win their case and void the contract on breach. A tall order fraught with expensive legal bills. The Ah Bengs who signed the dotted line without reading and understanding the implications of the contract they entered into should just walk away with their tails between their legs and continue paying the bill or they are going to have to incur hundreds of thousands in legal fees in a lost cause. Starhub's lawyers aren't cheap.

 

[longbow]

Maybe trick to is have a subscriber sue Starhub in small claims court. Some lawyer friend can guide on approach. Expenses would be low and the amount in dispute is small.

If result is favorable then ......

 

[Nice-Gook]

In the case of EPL, Starhub has the upper hand from a legal standpoint. Their terms and conditions CLEARLY stipulate they, "Starhub" reserves the right to alter or change the programming content provided.

No! --this clause is disputable.Ask any budding 1st year law student.You cannot suka suka write any contract that places the entire onus of burden on 1 party alone.

But and the real but here is that our kangaroo courts would never take the time to interpret the intent of the consumer who signed it.Because of the boh lumpa rookie female assitant regitrar who usually hear such case in her chambers...Just like all those magistrates who don't even look up at the faces of the 'accused' in night courts.

Besides every so called printed contracts with thick clauses behind it says the same--every thing favourable to it and nothing for the poor consumer..Simply we do not have consumer rights.It is as simple as that.Fight for consumer rights and Starhub contractual terms would be history.Fight Starhub and it lives to screw consumer more and more.
​

 

[Gillette]

I have a better suggestion. Aggrieved customers should threaten to sue Starhub for breach of contract and for the same amount of damages levied by Starhub for early termination by the customer.

I have an Indian friend who subscribed to an expensive mioTV package and specifically requested for an Indian channel as part of the package. 3 months into his contract, Singtel decided to terminate that channel. My friend called up Singtel and threatened to sue them for breach of contract and for the same damages for customer’s early termination. Singtel not only agree to terminate the contract, and actually refund the full 3 months’ bill that was already paid as if the contract was rescinded.

Moral of the story – stand up and fight for your rights, or stay silent and be bullied.