• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

To ALL CHEONGSTERS, Be Careful...RAIDS ON THE WAY!

Kid278

Alfrescian
Loyal
You are half right there.

Wrong in the sense that prostitution is not legalised in Singapre; it is just not illegal. They are not the same meaning. If it is legalised, there will be some kind of Streetwalker Act or Hookers Act. The kind and gentle govt realises that if you ban it, and it goes underground, it's harder to control. So they kept it open, subject the operators (OKT and estabs) to some form of control. So it is regulated.

Since GL and KS and DR all have greater mass reach and impact being at the lower end, the govt also keeps focus there. Here you're right -- AV permits, health cards, and general wink of the eye from the govt.

You can also seek out the private self--employed. They are as free as you and me in our private businesses. Unless they break some rules, like becoming mamasan and using HDB as a place of assignation, ah--then Old Man will poke you in the ass.

Yes, I can concur with that. I believe I've read somewhere the Old Man himself did said something to that extent in an interview. Prostitution is regulated to redlight district areas only, it was not banned or outllawed. I interpret that as legalized, as a cheongster myself I get around to know many of these people, OKTs, Gals both legal and illegal in my sense. Somewhere along the line there will always be ugly experiences, it is inevitable when the law is questioned instead of avoided but I've learnt and learn it well.

We all know freelances existed for a long time and AV knows that very well too, they are not stupid. The current media outcry sensationalizing the online prostitution thingy will just turn things ugly and making it looks scary to catch people's attention, it's a killjoy, it's not going to make these things just go away.

SBF's other forum has always be under AV's radar all along but nothing has happen. This time someone is trying to throw stones at beehives, let's just see how the bees reacts, who and how it stings.
 

LonewolfAlfa

Alfrescian
Loyal
hahaha, this is what that creative sim guy said about sinkapore and the u turn sign. we are allowed to do u turns only when we see a u turn sign.


Are you aware that there is no law that covers the breathing of air or eating food. Do you think its legal or illegal since there no clear direction? Occasionally when I see the Police, I hold my breath just in case. They might interpret differently, so to play safe, I hold my breath. To avoid entrapment, I don't go near oxygen tanks etc.

So far this has been your argument.

Legalized prostitution does not necessary meant prostitution is not an offence, if it's not approved, it's illegal, it's an offence.
 

Kid278

Alfrescian
Loyal
Are you aware that there is no law that covers the breathing of air or eating food. Do you think its legal or illegal since there no clear direction? Occasionally when I see the Police, I hold my breath just in case. They might interpret differently, so to play safe, I hold my breath. To avoid entrapment, I don't go near oxygen tanks etc.

So far this has been your argument.

Seems to me you have to lord over everything. Well, sarcasm will not serve that purpose. We all have our own opinion and many angles to it. You have your piece I have mine. No one has to win, no one has to lose but someone has to stop that's all, simple as that.
 

Kid278

Alfrescian
Loyal
moral of this thread: never debate with a moron. they just don't reach the iq level necessary for basic communication. case is closed.

Good for you, cant take the heat stay out of the kitchen. Dont overestimate yourself, only moron underestimates others, iq level or otherwise.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
The reason I am doing this is because you are stating something that is not true. Nothing to do with opinions that is yours or mine. If you tell anyone that in your opinion that sun rises in the west, someone is going to tell you its not true. Get the picture.

Except for OKTs telling, you have not provided nothing else. Eatshitndie at least provide extract of the law to explaining soliciting.

By the way, seems odd that you are agreeing with Kingrant when your position is opposite of his. Tell us what you actually concur with him?, We are lost. And it Kingrant who actually pointed out the error in this first.


Seems to me you have to lord over everything. Well, sarcasm will not serve that purpose. We all have our own opinion and many angles to it. You have your piece I have mine. No one has to win, no one has to lose but someone has to stop that's all, simple as that.
 

Unrepented

Alfrescian
Loyal
A few questions for the informed;

How do such businesses apply for licenses?
How do they pay their taxes?
And how AV administer their operations?
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
I just don't get some people. If you go to Brannigans, 70% are prostitutes and many are from foreign countries. Its the same with the "4 levels of Whoreheaven". None of them got cards, no permits, no passes, nothing etc.

I hope this chap does not think they are housewives attending cocktails on human right and that the activity intensifies after 9pm because rentals for such establishments are cheaper after hours.

Hey, bro, tks for the Bran's tip! Will put it in my must visit list..hehe..
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thank the former Sultan of Pahang whose home in Singapore is the Hyatt. Its now called Brix - same action. In a way, he helped our local lasses from getting exploited by pimps and other low life.

Hey, bro, tks for the Bran's tip! Will put it in my must visit list..hehe..
 

Kid278

Alfrescian
Loyal
The reason I am doing this is because you are stating something that is not true. Nothing to do with opinions that is yours or mine. If you tell anyone that in your opinion that sun rises in the west, someone is going to tell you its not true. Get the picture.

Except for OKTs telling, you have not provided nothing else. Eatshitndie at least provide extract of the law to explaining soliciting.

By the way, seems odd that you are agreeing with Kingrant when your position is opposite of his. Tell us what you actually concur with him?, We are lost. And it Kingrant who actually pointed out the error in this first.

Since when have I said anything that's untrue. I speak my mind, an opinion I'm entitled to. I dont have to prove anything, I am talking from experiences I been thru in real life, believe it or not it doesnt really matters. Anyone can disagree but dont expect me to go pull some extract everytime I had something to say.

There's nothing odd about, I suggest you revisit Kingrant's post again. My position was never opposite his, the interpretation may differ but the facts and substances is about the same.

You can disagree with me, just like I disagree with you. There'll always be differences in opinion, like it or not. Sometimes we will continue the exchanges and rebuttal or agree to disagree and let it rest, nothing personal, simple as that.

This is a free forum and I believe in freedom of speech. There's enough of retrictions in the real world, dont bring anymore in here.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
You are wrong, prostitution is legal only when with a licence, those legal brothel in GL so to speak. Streetwalkers, KTV girls, these gals are on social visit pass, you get caught with them you had plenty to explain, contradictions and you find yourself engaging in illegal prostitution. Believe me, AV will not hesitate in resorting yo entrapment to get those in the streets, kTV and sleszy bars.:p


Above is your very first post for easy reference in response to forummer Commoner. You might want to revisit it. Looks like you completely forgot where you started and now find yourself in a bind and now call it an "opinion"

As Kingrant was the first to highlight that prostitution is not illegal, how does that gel with your position. Why don't you check with Kingrant what both your positions are rather than assume that they are same. Obviously you can't proof anything that is not true.

Like I said, I am merely pointing something that is untrue. Nothing subjective about it. Don't worry about my conduct, manner, sarcasm, abrasiveness etc. Thats not the issue.


Since when have I said anything that's untrue. I speak my mind, an opinion I'm entitled to. I dont have to prove anything, I am talking from experiences I been thru in real life, believe it or not it doesnt really matters. Anyone can disagree but dont expect me to go pull some extract everytime I had something to say.

There's nothing odd about, I suggest you revisit Kingrant's post again. My position was never opposite his, the interpretation may differ but the facts and substances is about the same.

You can disagree with me, just like I disagree with you. There'll always be differences in opinion, like it or not. Sometimes we will continue the exchanges and rebuttal or agree to disagree and let it rest, nothing personal, simple as that.

This is a free forum and I believe in freedom of speech. There's enough of retrictions in the real world, dont bring anymore in here.
 

Frankiestine

Alfrescian
Loyal
Brothels.:o

From what I gather from OKTs, brothels licenses are sort of "hand me down" ie from one generation to the next. As for licensing for new comers, that I am not sure.

With regards to taxes, according to OKT, as the trade is already considered a immoral trade hence to collect taxes from them is no different from those OKT whether legal or illegal living off the earnings of the pros themselves...so they don't pay taxes..
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Brothels are grandfathered along family lines. The process was handed over from the British days. ( yes the Colonial govt collected licennces for Brothels) Most of them are in the same families for at least a few generations. The Govt is not keen to commercialise it in terms of tender, etc. One can still apply for license but the criteria is strict. MHA controls the process.

This is the complete comprehensive licences for all of Singapore but you never find the brothel license here. https://licences.business.gov.sg/SHINE/sop/WebPageHandler?p=OASIS&pn=SelectLicences


Its usually word of mouth and from similar background. Your best bet is to call AV and they will refer you to the appropriate party in MHA. Chances are AV will claim not such thing.

AV on 2 separate occasions came directly under the control of MHA instead of the Police Force to avoid corruption but the penpushers were taken for ride so now it is controlled by SPF. Here is the interesting part, MHA appointed a lady to run AV but she too ended being tempted by the flesh.

AV is heavily monitored by the MHA. The main policies are to provide an outlet for men, stop exploitation of women etc and enforce the brothel rules and area of operation. Christopher de Souza who complained in parliament about Duxton was not aware that it was "designated" It right across AV office.

Taxes are sole proprietor no different to other SP. Nothing like high gambling taxes.



Brothels.:o
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Below is an extract of a speech given by Ho Peng Kee , Minister of State for Home Affair last year . Please see para 13 second sentence which is in bold and underlined. Suffice to say that it is not an opinion by Ho Peng Kee.

http://app3.mha.gov.sg/news_details.aspx?nid=MTM2OQ==-/v/KQ2xLxwk=
05 February 2009
Ministry Of Home Affairs Committee Of Supply Debate 2009- Speech by Senior Minister of State A/P Ho Peng Kee – Striking A Balance, 05February 2009 Let me now address issues relating to foreign workers, treatment of prisoners, vice and loansharking.

Foreign Workers and Public Order

2. Mr Arthur Fong is concerned that foreign workers congregating in large numbers in various parts of Singapore may turn disorderly and cause law and order problems. On the whole, foreign workers living here are law-abiding. While such gatherings may cause some social disamenity, they generally do not disturb the peace or involve unlawful activities.

3. Recent groups of foreign workers gathering at MOM were there primarily to seek assistance to resolve outstanding disputes with their employers, not to cause trouble. MOM officers have helped them with their claims.

4. The vast majority of foreign workers respect our laws. They know that the authorities here are impartial and professional and will look into their grievances. They are aware that if they breach our laws by staging demonstrations or protests, whether at MOM or elsewhere, Police will have to enforce the law and prosecute or repatriate them.

5. I assure Mr Fong that MOM and the Police have been working closely together to enhance the operating protocols for handling such incidents. However, the key is to address this issue upstream. Hence, in January this year, the Acting Minister for Manpower shared in this House that his Ministry has introduced early intervention measures to detect non-payment of salaries and stepped up mediation efforts to ensure that employers honour their obligations to their workers.

6. Interaction between the Police and foreign workers is on-going. Police visits foreign worker dormitories regularly and collaborates with dormitory operators and their security agencies to ensure that the workers maintain good behaviour. Leveraging on CSSP initiatives, foreign workers are apprised of law and order issues and familiarised with our social norms. Some foreign workers are involved as crime prevention ambassadors themselves. Such on-going interaction allows Police to effectively detect and deter potential law and order problems before they escalate. In the event that public order incidents occur, Police will deal with them swiftly and firmly.

Management of Prisoners

7. I now turn to the issue of assaults in our prisons, raised by Ms Sylvia Lim. As the incident Ms Lim mentions is currently before the Courts, I am not able to go into the details of the case. Let me address Ms Lim’s queries generally.

8. Prisons has well-established security procedures for the secure and safe custody of inmates under its charge, such as regular patrols, muster checks, and interviews by Prison officers who act as personal supervisors. Inmates who feel threatened can approach their personal supervisors or any other prisons officer.

9. Our prisons are among the safest in the world. Over the last three years, the number of major assaults on Prison staff and inmates, per 10,000 inmates, was 16 in FY 2005, 15 in FY 2006 and 22 in FY 2007. This is low by international norms. For example, in New Zealand, their figure is 46 assaults per 10,000 inmates.

10. Prison authorities will not tolerate any form of assault by inmates and will spare no effort to ensure that those guilty are brought to task immediately. Whilst Prisons has in place effective security procedures, it is unrealistic to expect Prison authorities to guard against every conceivable eventuality especially given the context of how inmates interact with each other in the prison setting. From time to time, assaults amongst inmates do occur. Inmates are also responsible for their own safety. They should co-operate with Prison authorities by complying with the rules and regulations and not engage in risky behaviour themselves, for example bullying others, that may lead to their own harm. The key point is that inmates who are threatened or in danger have ample channels to seek assistance expeditiously and immediately and that is why there are distress alarms and intercoms in the cells.

11. Mr Chairman, issues which the Home Team deals with are complex. Solutions are often alloyed as there is no answer which pleases everyone. People may agree about law and order but they are not always agreed on how it should be maintained. To what extent should our measures go?

12. Several members have raised issues relating to vice and loansharking. These two issues illustrate how we need to strike a balance between competing considerations. As we do so, we steer by certain fundamental principles, always bearing in mind that our approach must be calibrated, and our solutions pragmatic and workable on the ground.

Managing the Vice Situation

13. Mr De Souza and Dr Lateef raise concern about the vice situation. As members are aware, prostitution is not an offence in Singapore. We recognise that it is not possible to eradicate it and forcing it underground will lead to the greater likelihood of involvement by triads and organised crime, the trafficking of women, and public health risks.

14. Dr Lateef asks that more be done about the vice situation in Geylang. Substantial Police resources are dedicated to enforcement efforts against prostitutes who solicit in public and pimps who force women into prostitution. Geylang is a key focal area. This is why Police has installed CCTV cameras in Geylang. While CCTVs aid in general crime prevention, they also have the salutary effect of deterring prostitutes from soliciting.

15. Police has intensified enforcement – conducting about 1,450 operations last year and arresting some 5,000 foreigners; in comparison with 950 operations and the arrest of 5,400 foreigners the year before. Such offenders are repatriated from Singapore and banned from re-entering. As for those who force women, local or foreign, into prostitution, we take tough action under our laws against them.

16. Mr De Souza translates the number of vice-related arrests to about 100 each week. We should put this figure in the context of about 190,000 tourists entering Singapore weekly. It is possible to tighten up further on checks and screening on female tourists but this will cause delays and inconvenience and hamper our efforts to promote tourism.

17. Mr De Souza is concerned that vice is spilling into the heartlands. Let me assure him that only 1.35% of the total arrests for vice-related activities were made in our HDB heartlands last year. The Duxton area has very few residential units nearby. It comprises primarily entertainment outlets, and is visited mainly by those who patronise these outlets.

18. I assure Mr De Souza that CID is geared up to counter what he calls a ‘disturbing trend’. CID was re-organised last year into three Specialised Crime Investigation Branches, supported by a Specialised Crime Expert Branch. With this, CID now has a larger pool of trained officers to deploy for anti-vice operations. Also, in November last year, powers under the Women’s Charter were extended to selected Police officers in all Land Divisions, enabling more officers to take on enforcement responsibilities.
 

FuckSamLeong

Alfrescian
Loyal
I grew up in Geylang. With the gradual birth of social cognizance in my then young mind, I got to know that people pay and are paid to sleep with each other and that included sissy men too!

Ironically, I grew up to brothel-hop in the wild days of my bachelorhood in Geylang!

One of my childhood playmates became the operator of a brothel in Lorong 20. I used to do business client entertainment shit with his brothel as one of the stops along the way.
For myself, I have the extra privilege as a childhood pal to go early in the morning to have a nap and a regular girl I requested will be directed to wake me as her first john of the day.

I did asked him how he ended up being a licensed brothel operator and also the nuts and bolts details of the Geylang trade. He revealed he started as a driver for other brothels ferrying the girls from one lorong to another for whichever joint had a client waiting. Desiring to start out on his own, he started pimping Thai girls in the old "Ang Theng" in Clifford Pier. Caught a few times and jailed, he was offered a licence by the CID Anti -Vice Licencing Department and told not to return to the streets. And so his road to prosperity.

The last time I was in contact with him, he owned two adjoining semi D units in Lorong 20 that served as his business premises. He was married with kids and his family lived in a condo. He changed his favourite car, a Mercedes every two years.

When I congratulated him for having a tax free business gig, he laughed and told me that one of the conditions of operating a licenced brother is that he has to register a company and declare yearly, a fair amount of returns to be taxed! So you draw your own conclusions!
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
What I am looking at is those legal house, their gals are approved prostitute operating within the law. That's what legalized prostitution is all about. Those freelancing on the streets or anywhere, they're illegals and are always rounded up and deported if not let off with a warning.

You are wrong again to say that a singaporean prostitute working by herself and for herself is not breaking any law. Do you know how Singapore Ice ended up in GL. She started in Health centers and illegal houses, she was busted a couple of times for illegal prostitution untill AV offered her permit if she could find an OKT in GL willing to take her in and she did. ...

Legalized prostitution does not necessary meant prostitution is not an offence, if it's not approved, it's illegal, it's an offence.



You are wrong again. Local gals, citizens who chooses to be a protitute are also required to apply for that permit. Normally OKTs or the brothel handles that. Those regulations they had to adhere stands, local or foreign regardless. Upon approval they're issued another card, the enforced monthly medical screening at Kelantan lane which is a gov clinic and cheaper but humiliating or should they choose their own clinic, it must be an AV approved one which cost very much more but better privacy.
....


Now that they had already approved and legalized the PRCs into brothels, the question is how are they going to clean, control and contain the illegal ones. Legalizing prostitution is one thing while not curbing illegal prostitution is quite another altogether. Should the current illegal prostitution goes beyond control, dont be surprise draconian laws will be tabled out.

They can legalize prostitution, they can also ban illegal prostitution. It's a matter of how the law will be spelt out and how are they going enforce it.

You are wrong, prostitution is legal only when with a licence, those legal brothel in GL so to speak. Streetwalkers, KTV girls, these gals are on social visit pass, you get caught with them you had plenty to explain, contradictions and you find yourself engaging in illegal prostitution. Believe me, AV will not hesitate in resorting yo entrapment to get those in the streets, kTV and sleszy bars.:p

The problem is yr vocabulary. You are not using the term "legalise" in the right way. Prostitution is allowed in Singapore - meaning S'pore does not outlaw it. So paying for sex and selling sex is per se, NOT criminal or an offence, and police cannot haul you to court. When you say prostitution is illegal, do you mean the buyer and the seller are committing a crime? Because that's what it means.

Locals -Singapore girls, PR holders - can sleep with men for money and still is no crime. Yr girlfren asked you for money after sex, or you gave her money after sex is no crime. She may be busted for not paying taxes tho, if she becomes a high roller, but that's different.

Singapore Ice as you said sold sex while working as masseuse and ktv lunge waitress. Now she was busted --not for the paid sex part --but for doing it in an establishment that is not licensed as a brothel and specifically has prohibited sex between patron and staff, never mind paid or not. If she had been smarter, she shld have arranged to book into a hotel and fuck till kingdom comes and still neither she nor her partner can be busted --for prostitution, even if she was sleeping on money bills.

Same with foreigners here on student pass, visit pass. They flout the law for which their visits/passes were allowed. If you pick up one of them and fuck in a hotel or in yr house or car, the police got no case. But if they stand on the streets to solicit, then they commit an offence for soliciting.

The police has to tread a fine line between personal freedom/privacy and rampant uncontrolled sex trades. That's why they have GL, KS and DR --to keep it open and regulated. That is the word.

"Legalized prostitution does not necessary meant prostitution is not an offence, if it's not approved, it's illegal, it's an offence."

I think you are really confused above and below.

"They can legalize prostitution, they can also ban illegal prostitution. "

Hope to have cleared the air.
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
Same with foreigners here on student pass, visit pass. They flout the law for which their visits/passes were allowed.


Here, they are flouting law for working illegally. They are as guilty as yr illegal neighborhood kopitiam beer girl or hawker assistant.
 
Top