scroobal,
Just like to say that you appear to be biased against CSM. I want to correct you on some of your points and if you still intend to be unpersuaded that your position is biased then you are most likely pro PAP and nothing will change your mind.
1. During the early eighties there was a worry by our PM LKY and Minister Goh Keng Swee that a lot of bright students were going into medicine and law and that there needed to be a quota to limit the amount of talent going into that sector and persuade top students into then unpopular engineering so that the MNC's had their manpower needs met.
Eg. of how it was done is female students in medicine were restricted to 10% and the reason given was they were poor investments as they tended to not work after marriage. Also there was a sham interview selection process for medicine in which a disproportionate amount of top students like CSM were "rejected" in favor of less talented applicants.
But everyone including the academic staff knew it was a sham. My brother happened to be one of those brighter students rejected. I personally knew a professor and asked him to help and he too disagreed to the quota and re-direction of talent into manufacturing but the enrollment decisions were out of his hand. My useless MP Lee York Suan (PAP Desmond Lee's dad) just said it was national interests and did not even bother to appeal for him.
If you are old enough ask your peers. Everyone in the medical profession in 80's from the academia knew this. So too were the law academia. CSM and my brother were brutal victims having their future sacrificed for the country's needs. My brother took up another scholarship and never had a chance to do medicine. So was CSM. Fast forward 20 odd years and now we have dead manufacturing sector with mass unemployed PMETS and worst we need to import sub-standard doctors from the third world likes of Filipinos and Indians. This is the truth except for those younger ones who do not know and do not remember, and think it is a brilliant idea to import FT docs not knowing who created the problem of shortage in the first place.
2. A selection process purposely skewed to officially force, persuade talent into the much needed manufacturing disciplines. It was a open policy and the selection process was just a sham to cover the unfairness just like our current GRC system. It was far from meritocratic by all those who knew anything of it.
3. That CSM did or did not volunteer to do NS does not matter as much as the fact that he SERVED WITH DISTINCTION. I emphasize that and we do appreciate his service. No one should take that away credit from him. His motivations are personal to him, and so too my own motivation was to me (not to serve 3 years in prison in Kranji like someone I know of).
Someone else may just want to make some money as an army officer and get a better chance of government scholarship. We all have our motivations to do NS. Fact was he was a PR, not under SAF Enlistment act, and he served well regardless - of his own motivations or circumstances. He is one of us in every way.
4. Depending on how you define "volunteered". For me and for most folks of my age we remember the volunteer infantry platoon of the SAF. Yes. There IS such a thing as a volunteer soldier and you can walk in to volunteer. They are given a rank such as MAJ (VOL) Tan Ah Kow to differentiate their special honorary status from ordinary NS men and regulars. These are old soldiers, some infantry, mostly medical officers and nursing staff who man our medical units like field hospitals. They are considered volunteers if they are not subject to SAF enlistment act either through sex (being female) being too old (non-age group) or through the regular army service (not being regulars).
In CSM case I consider it half volunteered as he was PR not under enlistment act. But he is not fully honoured as volunteer in the traditional sense described above.
5. As I have elaborated above you can indeed walk into Mindef and be a volunteer. I know this fact because I have conducted volunteer officer courses in my NS time. If you are female or male not under enlistment act and have a certificate such as in nursing, public health, medicine, dentistry, special rare field deemed valuable to SAF you can volunteer. Dr Janil can volunteer and attend reservist too but I doubt he would.
It seems strange on first sight but I tell you there are really good hearted volunteers in our army who truly do it for the love of our country. On of them is the late surgeon and famous local artist Dr Earl Lu. He volunteered his time and expertise to the nation and I had the honour of serving with him. Being a top surgeon his private pay was super high, but for the one month a year he came in for reservist he only took a token rank allowance instead of the full reimbursement as we all reservists are entitled. A very rare humble man who is respected and loved and fondly remembered by all who knew him.
scroobal, grow up and be a bit more balanced will you. We need you to do your part for the country.
scroobal,
Just like to say that you appear to be biased against CSM. I want to correct you on some of your points and if you still intend to be unpersuaded that your position is biased then you are most likely pro PAP and nothing will change your mind.
Dear bro:
You vindicate what I have posted to Scroobal.
Scroobal, I've always liked your postings because they give insights to information/ background that the general public would not know. With regards to CSM, I shall not argue with you and give you the benefit of doubt that you are totally and absolutely correct. But...
Who gives a FUCK? Do you know how much CSM makes? This $15K is really, really a peanut to him. Do you think for all you painted him to be that he coverts the MP position? You think that volunteering for NS is mad. Do you think that a person for CSM to put life on hold (and possibly career at risk) to be an opposition MP if for fun??
FUCK OFF and close this topic. He holds a Singaporean passport and came back to serve its people for a meager fee. That's all I need to know.
scroobal,
Just like to say that you appear to be biased against CSM. I want to correct you on some of your points and if you still intend to be unpersuaded that your position is biased then you are most likely pro PAP and nothing will change your mind.
1. .
scroobal,
Just like to say that you appear to be biased against CSM. I want to correct you on some of your points and if you still intend to be unpersuaded that your position is biased then you are most likely pro PAP and nothing will change your mind.
1. .
I am just stating that both the claims are false. After the nomination and until the polls. I did not respond to any comments in the thread.
The PAP is not dumb. They would have done their due diligence and would have blackmailed people with skeletons in their closets as they did with Seow Khee Leng.
I raised this first when I saw it on the net so that those claims do not form part of the campaign. The person who first raised it stopped making it. Those claims have not surfaced since.
I am well aware of the policies. Again I will make it really simple.
1) The point that I am making is that he was not excluded or impacted by the quota. He made it into the vocational attachment which assess aptitude and he did not pass.
2) He either did NS or end up losing his PR and visiting his family on social visit passes and cannot seek employment here. 99% of PRs from Malaysia and East Asian countries "volunteer" NS with that kind of condition. Only applies to kids that came in young and obtained PR. The western expat kids either don't take PR or leave for college and jobs back in their home country.
3) You can't volunteer for BMT, OCS etc. You can't volunteer for NS . You can volunteer to serve the army, the police, the civil defence but there is not NS. He actually completed his NS and he was not classified as a volunteer. Why don't you ask him. He does possess his ROD papers. Volunteers do not possess such papers. Though who join as regulars have a pro-rata scheme in which NS component is built in.
When this first appeared, I made it a point to check before I came back with the responses. What you consider, feel or think is not the issue. The issue is he was within the quota but failed and he did not volunteer for NS. You should also not confuse the quota for females in medicine though the reasons that you cited are right. The actual quota is much higher and it only came in years later after the tax incentives proved ineffective. The only female quota that kicked in around the period occurred for the 1983 intake of Malaysian females admitted to NUS across all faculties to reduce competition for female Singaporeans graduates whose pool of unmarried ones were growing. Interestingly that quota was introduced quietly and then the old man announced his concerns during the National Day Speech rally of that year.
I thought Zenra is going to check. It is quite easy - it was the first cohort to be impacted - VB's batch where admission for medicine was based on vocational attachment. They had to disrupt from OCS or BMT, go for the attachment and if successful straight into Medical faculty. Unsuccessful ones returned to units to complete training.
ps. I am personal friend of the Lus via son Steven. Ever been to Dr Lu's house, the his art work is amazing and he donated most to the country. Do agree he was an exceptional individual.
The reason I have been writing all these years is that information is not something free available in Singapore.
Straits Times article on CSM from about 30 years ago....
http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Article/straitstimes19800308.2.7.aspx
Despite doing NS he did not take up Singapore Citizenship. He only took it up when applying for Rhodes Scholarship which is not open to Taiwanese citizens. He was a Singapore PR for 14 years.
I am well aware of the policies. Again I will make it really simple.
1) The point that I am making is that he was not excluded or impacted by the quota. He made it into the vocational attachment which assess aptitude and he did not pass.
2) He either did NS or end up losing his PR and visiting his family on social visit passes and cannot seek employment here. 99% of PRs from Malaysia and East Asian countries "volunteer" NS with that kind of condition. Only applies to kids that came in young and obtained PR. The western expat kids either don't take PR or leave for college and jobs back in their home country.
3) You can't volunteer for BMT, OCS etc. You can't volunteer for NS . You can volunteer to serve the army, the police, the civil defence but there is not NS. He actually completed his NS and he was not classified as a volunteer. Why don't you ask him. He does possess his ROD papers. Volunteers do not possess such papers. Though who join as regulars have a pro-rata scheme in which NS component is built in.
When this first appeared, I made it a point to check before I came back with the responses. What you consider, feel or think is not the issue. The issue is he was within the quota but failed and he did not volunteer for NS. You should also not confuse the quota for females in medicine though the reasons that you cited are right. The actual quota is much higher and it only came in years later after the tax incentives proved ineffective. The only female quota that kicked in around the period occurred for the 1983 intake of Malaysian females admitted to NUS across all faculties to reduce competition for female Singaporeans graduates whose pool of unmarried ones were growing. Interestingly that quota was introduced quietly and then the old man announced his concerns during the National Day Speech rally of that year.
I thought Zenra is going to check. It is quite easy - it was the first cohort to be impacted - VB's batch where admission for medicine was based on vocational attachment. They had to disrupt from OCS or BMT, go for the attachment and if successful straight into Medical faculty. Unsuccessful ones returned to units to complete training.
ps. I am personal friend of the Lus via son Steven. Ever been to Dr Lu's house, the his art work is amazing and he donated most to the country. Do agree he was an exceptional individual.
The reason I have been writing all these years is that information is not something free available in Singapore.