isnt it ironic that the govt is so readly to screw all singapore citizens by allowing huuuuge influx of foreigners into singapore, suppressing, job and education opportunities.. screwing us left right centre... and now they are talking about fearing the citizens for the lack of allegiances to the country??! that is horseshit!
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Penalty for acquiring another passport
- Thread starter Jason.T
- Start date
isnt it ironic that the govt is so readly to screw all singapore citizens by allowing huuuuge influx of foreigners into singapore, suppressing, job and education opportunities.. screwing us left right centre... and now they are talking about fearing the citizens for the lack of allegiances to the country??! that is horseshit!
Hi Papsmearer,
I think we might have started off on the wrong footing. After reading through your posts more than once, I choose to believe that you genuinely want to help and advise about the repercussions of having dual nationality. I thank you for that. You and many others who contributed to this thread could have just remained "silent" and minded your own business, but the decision was made to "speak out".
The sarcasm made towards you, Papsmearer, regarding your economic situation by me is totally uncalled for and I am sorry for that.
The reason why I started this thread is to find out what the penalties are, if any, for having dual passports.
This thread may have deviated to different focus points like:
- why have dual passports (whether it is an escape/backup solution or investment strategy, kiasu, clear conscience, failure is not an option ...)
- what's the reason for retaining Singapore passport (easy access to many countries, winning Government contracts, ...)
That's all good for the community reading this thread - sharing knowledge. Especially the foodie recommendation
Still, I am keen to find out if there are any indication about the penalties listed (if any) in the Singapore Government websites. NissanVIP has pointed out that ICA law has stated clearly with regards to dual citizenship. I cannot find any information on that on their website. Scroobal has pointed out that full transparency is not beneficial to the government and I do see his/her point.
I have also heard of many perceptions of this issue prior to starting this thread and my initial intention is to see if anyone could let us know from a Government website what the penalties, if any, are. This is because what is indicated in the government websites (not Wikipedia or other external bodies/forums or people) could be interpreted in different ways if you read carefully.
JT
This is what the PAP govt can do to 'fix' up anyone with dual citizenship. Clearly showing that dual citizenship up to current time is NOT PERMITTED and there can be penalties.
I refer you to the Singapore Constitution which is the sacrosanct law of the land that ICA would have to abide to.
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_vers...pl?&actno=Reved-CONST&date=latest&method=part
Deprivation of citizenship on acquisition of foreign citizenship
134. —(1) The Government may, by order, deprive a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship if the Government is satisfied that —
(a) he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 acquired by registration, naturalisation or other voluntary and formal act (other than marriage) the citizenship of any country outside Singapore or having so acquired such citizenship before the age of 18 years continues to retain it after that age; or
(b) the citizen, being a woman who is a citizen of Singapore by registration under Article 123 (2), has acquired the citizenship of any country outside Singapore by virtue of her marriage to a person who is not a citizen of Singapore.
(2) Where the Government has made an order under this Article depriving a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship, he shall cease to be a citizen with effect from the date of the order.
Deprivation of citizenship on exercise of rights of foreign nationals, etc.
135. —(1) The Government may, by order, deprive a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship if the Government is satisfied that —
(a) he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 voluntarily claimed and exercised any rights (other than any rights in connection with the use of a passport) available to him under the law of any country outside Singapore being rights accorded exclusively to the citizens or nationals of that country;
(b) he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 applied to the authorities of a place outside Singapore for the issue or renewal of a passport or used a passport issued by such authorities as a travel document; or
(c) he is of or over the age of 18 years and has, whether before or after attaining the age of 18 years, been ordinarily resident outside Singapore for a continuous period of 10 years (including any period of residence outside Singapore before 2nd January 1986) and has not at any time —
(i) during that period or thereafter entered Singapore by virtue of a certificate of status or travel document issued by the competent authorities of Singapore; or
(ii) during that period been in the service of the Government or of an international organisation of which Singapore is a member or of such other body or organisation as the President may, by notification in the Gazette, designate.
(2) For the purposes of clause (1) (a), the exercise of a vote in any political election in a place outside Singapore shall be deemed to be the voluntary claim and exercise of a right available under the law of that place.
(3) Where the Government has made an order under this Article depriving a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship, he shall cease to be a citizen with effect from the date of the order.
Obviously you have not read what you pasted. This is the reason why people act wrongly because they are given misleading information.
Please do note the items in bold. Its pointless using terms such as "sancrosant" and "ICA would have to abide" when the law itself does not specify anything except to follow an order which the Govt may or may not do. The govt does not need to act and the law is very clear on that.
Clearly the Government is not required by law to take away a Singapore citizenship. The law however will provide the legal basis for the Govt if the Govt and not the Law wants to act.
So what "sacrosanct law of the land that ICA would have to abide to" Pray tell.
Please do note the items in bold. Its pointless using terms such as "sancrosant" and "ICA would have to abide" when the law itself does not specify anything except to follow an order which the Govt may or may not do. The govt does not need to act and the law is very clear on that.
Clearly the Government is not required by law to take away a Singapore citizenship. The law however will provide the legal basis for the Govt if the Govt and not the Law wants to act.
So what "sacrosanct law of the land that ICA would have to abide to" Pray tell.
The Singapore Constitution is the supreme law of the land (which every NS men has sworn an oath to protect and uphold) therefore it is sacrosanct.
The word "MAY" is tricky because it gives MORE power to the govt and leaves the lesser mortal at their mercy. Just like the renunciation law where the govt "MAY" reject an application for renunciation of SG citizenship. The Attorney General also works in the same way, he may or may not prosecute those who have broken the law.
The word "MAY" can be used to the advantage of the elites who may secretly have DUAL citizenship and not face any action by the ICA under instructions from the Home Minister.
The rule of FEAR in Singapore is SO STRONG that where lesser mortals are concerned the word "MAY" is intimidating enough. They may be forced to 'choose' only one citizenship and if they choose the foreign one, they may be forced to sell off their HDB flat in a short time span and suffer possible financial loss.
In short, the slight ambiguity is not really to the advantage of the overseas Singaporean contemplating dual citizenship. When one retains SG citizenship, the PAP can, may and will fix you up if they so choose and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do to fix them back!
Show me the law that prohibits holding dual or multiple citizenship.
The Government "may" also acquire your freehold house to extend the road in front of your home. And the law also allows them to do that. I am sure that will not deter you buying a home.
Do not let the PAP government run your life in this manner. I have no time for this authoritarian government but one cannot live in fear and live on bad information and old wives's tales.
The Government "may" also acquire your freehold house to extend the road in front of your home. And the law also allows them to do that. I am sure that will not deter you buying a home.
Do not let the PAP government run your life in this manner. I have no time for this authoritarian government but one cannot live in fear and live on bad information and old wives's tales.
Bad Information and Old wives tales indeed! If dual citizenship is ALLOWED in Singapore then Article 134 to 135 in the Singapore Constitution appears to be superfluous and redundant.
When I first applied for my NZ citizenship, the first thing the NZ Dept Of Internal Affairs Officer in my application citizenship interview reminded me and made sure that I understood clearly that my native country SINGAPORE DOES NOT permit dual citizenship and that I would have to surrender my SG citizenship when I obtain the NZ one.
With REGARDS to your gungho attitude by some ridiculous suggested action at the ICA; PLEASE REFER TO ICA website itself why dual citizenship is NOT ALLOWED in SINGAPORE: The LAW is clear it applies to foreigners taking up SG citizenship as well as Singaporeans acquiring foreign citizenship. The LAW CUTS both ways (the operative word here being MUST RENOUNCE OR GIVE UP FOREIGN CITIZENSHIP and the word MAY is not found now !!!!).
http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=133&secid=130
Overview
Once approval for Singapore Citizenship is given, the applicant must renounce his/her foreign citizenship and register for Singapore Citizenship before officially becoming a Singapore Citizen. The applicant may also apply for an Identity Card and Passport at this time.
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Scroobal - I think you should take over LEE KUAN YEW government administration in ICA and fuck LKY if he disagree your dual citizenship policy. I too wish to have more than just SG citizenship.
Your information is obsolutely incorrect that SIngapore-Govt allowing any shitizen to have dual citizenship. Read up ICA website and understand the clause(s) what SG-ICA law has already applied.
I agree with [scroobal], and believe that the word "may" in the legislation provides the government and the Attorney General with the discretion to take or not to take the necessary step(s). With respect to a Singaporean who has acquired the citizenship of another country, but did not renounce his or her Singapore citizenship, I believe that the relevant authorities may choose not take the necessary steps to revoke the SG citizenship for that Singaporean (unless there is some reason for the SG govt. to become aware, and consider necessary to revoke the SG citizenship for that individual).
Accordingly, there is no law which prohibits dual citizenship, except that a citizen of another country probably has to renouce his or her former citizenship before he is granted SG citizenship (an active, positive, affirmative choice to acquire SG citizenship, which requires the SG govt. to choose a positive "may").
Perhaps, a desirable alternative would be for a SG citizen to apply for citizenship of another country, which allows dual nationality, but do not renounce his SG citizenship, because the SG citizen could benefit from the dual citizenship.
The reason why I go to this extent of passing on this information over 10 years in the previous SBF and this forum is that this govt has allowed myths to be carried away to a ridiculous extent.
Singaporeans who have acquired foreign citizenship and passports are still holding on to their Singapore credentials. I had one doubting thomas who did not believe me and walked into ICA and asked what the position was. They asked him to produce his newly acquired passport which he did. They then told him that it was not necessary to give up his Singapore citizenship. He asked for it in writing but they obviously were not prepared to do it as it will appear online.
I have been advising Singaporeans migrating on NS issues as I have seen the errors made by parents and the damage it does to kids.
Don't ask me how I know these things but those who have followed my posts can make a reasonable guess.
I am aware that you served your National Service in the Police Force as an Inspector but I can tell you the vast majority of civil servants have little clue about such policies. In the 90s, an ex-perm sec and former president scholar gave the wrong advice to a friend of mine who migrated and the son still cannot enter singapore after the family migrated.
This is not about ego, and perception. This is serious stuff as it affects people's lives. I will not play around with things that I do not know. There is no law that prohibits dual citizenship. The law actually protects Singaporeans from having their citizenship taken away except in circumstances proscibed by law.
In the old days, there used to be reciprocal arrangements between countries where passports and citizenship documents are taken away when they given citizenship by their new country. These documents are than returned to the country of origin. Most countries no longer practice this including, UK, US, OZ, Canada and Canada. Malaysia and Singapore continues along this path for obvious sensitive reasons.
The world has changed so has singapore. The general international practice for those holding dual or multiple citizenship is enter and exit a country using the passport of that country if you are its citizen for census purposes. You will be advised of it by immigration at the checkpoint or at the time that you issued your new passport of your new country. You are not required to but they prefer it that way.
The Singapore laws are online here:
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/
Do a search and you will find there is no such law that prohibits holding another passport. The word "may" means exactly that.
Singaporeans who have acquired foreign citizenship and passports are still holding on to their Singapore credentials. I had one doubting thomas who did not believe me and walked into ICA and asked what the position was. They asked him to produce his newly acquired passport which he did. They then told him that it was not necessary to give up his Singapore citizenship. He asked for it in writing but they obviously were not prepared to do it as it will appear online.
I have been advising Singaporeans migrating on NS issues as I have seen the errors made by parents and the damage it does to kids.
Don't ask me how I know these things but those who have followed my posts can make a reasonable guess.
I am aware that you served your National Service in the Police Force as an Inspector but I can tell you the vast majority of civil servants have little clue about such policies. In the 90s, an ex-perm sec and former president scholar gave the wrong advice to a friend of mine who migrated and the son still cannot enter singapore after the family migrated.
This is not about ego, and perception. This is serious stuff as it affects people's lives. I will not play around with things that I do not know. There is no law that prohibits dual citizenship. The law actually protects Singaporeans from having their citizenship taken away except in circumstances proscibed by law.
In the old days, there used to be reciprocal arrangements between countries where passports and citizenship documents are taken away when they given citizenship by their new country. These documents are than returned to the country of origin. Most countries no longer practice this including, UK, US, OZ, Canada and Canada. Malaysia and Singapore continues along this path for obvious sensitive reasons.
The world has changed so has singapore. The general international practice for those holding dual or multiple citizenship is enter and exit a country using the passport of that country if you are its citizen for census purposes. You will be advised of it by immigration at the checkpoint or at the time that you issued your new passport of your new country. You are not required to but they prefer it that way.
The Singapore laws are online here:
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/
Do a search and you will find there is no such law that prohibits holding another passport. The word "may" means exactly that.
Thanks for the support bro. This matter is being considered by cabinet as revealed by old man himself nearly a year back. They have decided not to act yet but to KIV. The matter interestingly is not about clearly prohibiting dual citizenship but making it clear that it is allowed.
The brain drain has been quite significant (compliment to you) and the government's lack of clarity has led to good people giving up their citizenship. Some may even consider returning if they had held on to their citizenship and that means return of valuable talent and serious retirement funds that will boost our economy.
There are also other considerations such a allowing ex-singaporeans to reapply. Australia now allows that with a change of law a few years back. It was called the "Murdoch law" to allow Rupert Murdoch to get back his citizenship which he had to give up to take up US citizenship to own an American Press. China has had that for many years. It is allowed only once.
The brain drain has been quite significant (compliment to you) and the government's lack of clarity has led to good people giving up their citizenship. Some may even consider returning if they had held on to their citizenship and that means return of valuable talent and serious retirement funds that will boost our economy.
There are also other considerations such a allowing ex-singaporeans to reapply. Australia now allows that with a change of law a few years back. It was called the "Murdoch law" to allow Rupert Murdoch to get back his citizenship which he had to give up to take up US citizenship to own an American Press. China has had that for many years. It is allowed only once.
Not anymore. You might want check with new migrants who have taken up citizenship. It used be like that when Canadians, OZ authorities would require you to surrender previous countries documents.
There are certain exception affecting SAF staff and families who are based in places like Australia and there are defence agreements. For instance, SAF personnel attached Peirce Airforce Base in Perth applying for migration will have that matter referred to Singapore by OZ authorities and that family will promptly be flown back.
This applies to foreigners applying for singapore citizenship. The topic is Singporeans acquiring another passport when they have acquired new citizenship.
Please read this:
http://www.nzembassy.com/info.cfm?c=36&l=96&CFID=9817&CFTOKEN=11005406&s=nz&p=60956
Dual citizenship/nationality
There are no restrictions on New Zealand citizens also holding the citizenship of another country (ie. to be dual nationals or citizens).
Some countries, however, do not allow their citizens to hold the citizenship of another country (ie. to be dual nationals or citizens).
The New Zealand Department of Internal Affairs does not advise foreign governments about citizenship applications it receives.
New Zealanders wishing to acquire the citizenship of another country need to investigate whether dual citizenship is an option with the government of the country in which they wish to gain citizenship.
You may have to contact all those who were provided with the wrong advice by you to set things right.
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You are the one providing INCORRECT and DANGEROUS information that would really give problems to those who take your advice!
NZ allows dual citizenship, Singapore DOES NOT and Singapore has not changed their policy even to this day. This was conveyed to me during my application for NZ citizenship by the concerned NZ govt thru their Internal Dept Affairs officers which I have highlighted in RED BOLD in your own post quoted above. The issue of SINGAPORE NOT ALLOWING dual citizenship is even KNOWN by the NZ GOVT except people like yourself who are either delusional or or in denial and simply REFUSING to admit that you are WRONG about the NO DUAL CITIZENSHIP being allowed by the SINGAPORE GOVT.
The ICA website, the Singapore Constitution and the recent debate in Parliament would have made it crystal clear to everyone concerned.
If the dual citizenship is allowed in Singapore, then what the hell are the PAP MPs talking about dual citizenship considerations in the SG PARLIAMENT for?
Like I mentioned, the Singapore laws cut both ways, if a foreigner taking up Singapore citizenship has to renounce his foreign citizenship because Singapore DOES NOT allow dual citizenship. It likewise applies to EVERY SINGAPORE CITIZEN.
Otherwise, any foreigner could simply take up SG citizenship and renounce his foreign citizenship and then secretly re-apply for reinstatement of his foreign citizenship claiming his renunciation was made under DURESS by the SG govt!
The REAL DANGER lies in ARTICLE 134, 135 of the Singapore Constitution where the GOVT may strip a Singaporean of his SG citizenship at any time if he/she holds foreign citizenship. Imagine if a Singaporean holding foreign citizenship is suddenly stripped off his SG citizenship while still in possession of his HDB flat. I wonder if it would in any way affect the sale of his HDB flat without his PINK IC or SG citizenship or must he forfeit his HDB flat to the HDB at whatever price HDB determines. NO ONE KNOWS or would want to become a test case would he?
If the SG govt can be vindictive on NS absconders like Melvin Tan, a test case of a Singaporean harbouring dual citizenship againt SG law would likewise be made an example of as well. The Singaporean who listens to your advice and goes up to the ICA office to flash his foreign passport and his SG one at the same time would do so at his own peril.
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You obviously have not kept in touch with progress. The NZ no longer takes back Singapore passport. Please read a copy of the advisory by the NZ Govt which I posted earlier and I am posting it again. Note the sentence in bold.
This practice has been stopped a long time ago.
http://www.nzembassy.com/info.cfm?c=36&l=96&CFID=9817&CFTOKEN=11005406&s=nz&p=60956
Dual citizenship/nationality
There are no restrictions on New Zealand citizens also holding the citizenship of another country (ie. to be dual nationals or citizens).
Some countries, however, do not allow their citizens to hold the citizenship of another country (ie. to be dual nationals or citizens).
The New Zealand Department of Internal Affairs does not advise foreign governments about citizenship applications it receives.
New Zealanders wishing to acquire the citizenship of another country need to investigate whether dual citizenship is an option with the government of the country in which they wish to gain citizenship.
This practice has been stopped a long time ago.
http://www.nzembassy.com/info.cfm?c=36&l=96&CFID=9817&CFTOKEN=11005406&s=nz&p=60956
Dual citizenship/nationality
There are no restrictions on New Zealand citizens also holding the citizenship of another country (ie. to be dual nationals or citizens).
Some countries, however, do not allow their citizens to hold the citizenship of another country (ie. to be dual nationals or citizens).
The New Zealand Department of Internal Affairs does not advise foreign governments about citizenship applications it receives.
New Zealanders wishing to acquire the citizenship of another country need to investigate whether dual citizenship is an option with the government of the country in which they wish to gain citizenship.
Now you are imagining things - forfeiting HDB flat!. Please see below. Note that it will be reviewed. Not mandatory.
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10206p...nformation - Loss of Citizenship?OpenDocument
If there are changes to the flat owners' citizenship (Singapore citizenship or Singapore Permanent Resident status), their eligibility to continue to own the flat will be reviewed.
If the flat owners cannot retain the flat, they will need to dispose the flat in the open market if they have completed the minimum occupation period (MOP) as at the point of change of their citizenship. The seller’s eligibility to resell the flat is subject to the resale policy at the time of application.
If the occupation period for the flat has not been completed, HDB will acquire the flat and compensate the owners at a price determined by HDB.
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10206p...nformation - Loss of Citizenship?OpenDocument
If there are changes to the flat owners' citizenship (Singapore citizenship or Singapore Permanent Resident status), their eligibility to continue to own the flat will be reviewed.
If the flat owners cannot retain the flat, they will need to dispose the flat in the open market if they have completed the minimum occupation period (MOP) as at the point of change of their citizenship. The seller’s eligibility to resell the flat is subject to the resale policy at the time of application.
If the occupation period for the flat has not been completed, HDB will acquire the flat and compensate the owners at a price determined by HDB.
sorry to interrupt... this discussion is really very enlightening. But I just want to add that I know someone who did that!! And he didn't even have to claim that he is under duress!!
ok... pls carry on...
Wah... you learnt a lot liao.. where is their professional fee ? haha.
In this forum, there are heaps of lobangz tat the books dont teach.. these ppl in my opinion are genius.. Truely think outta box !
It now allowed by Australian Govt and many others. PRC also allows that. That right as I understand can only be used once. If fact, you do not have state that you were under duress if it was given up before 2002.
Just as the commercial world is high on retention of customers, countries have now swung the other way as well.
Here is releavnt part on OZ on re-apply for citizenship.
http://www.citizenship.gov.au/applying/resuming-citz.htm
I lost my Australian citizenship a long time ago. Can I get it back?
You can resume your Australian citizenship if you ceased to be an Australian citizen:
by applying for and acquiring the citizenship of another country
before 4 April 2002
or
by renouncing Australian citizenship to retain or acquire another citizenship or to avoid significant hardship
and
you are of good character, if aged 18 or over at the time of application.
See: Good character
If you had children under 16 years at the time you lost your Australian citizenship they may have lost their Australian citizenship, unless their other parent was an Australian citizen at the time. Children under 16 can be included in your resumption application. Children over 16 must apply for resumption in their own right.
The last paragraph is what I have been trying to tell you. I have also said that NZ has allowed dual citizenship all along amd I have NEVER said that the NZ govt holds back the SG passport nor advises the SG govt about such applications.
The advice or warning given is to the applicant concerned and not the govt of the applicant about the need to be wary that the SG does not permit dual citizenship for SG citizens acquiring NZ citizenship.
COMPREHENDO!
I am not imagining. Isn't your last paragraph precisely equivalent to 'forfeiting' a HDB flat? Selling it back to the HDB at a price determined by HDB is NOT to the sellers ADVANTAGE. Buying a flat at $300,000 and then selling it back to the HDB at say a price they compensate at $200,000 is a forfeit of $100,000!!!!
And all of the above can become a nightmare reality from flashing a foreign passport and a SG passport at the ICA office by someone listening to you and following your gungho advice.
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