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PAP struggling with WP's multi-prong attack.

nextinfidel

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Frens,

with WP having 6 MPs and causing such disarray with the other 80+ PAP MPs, it just shows that voting for WP was a right thing, imagine if WP won the other GRCs it contested. PAP will be in even greater shit and LHL will have to instill Martial Law just to save his own ass.. I hope that those who voted against WP repent for the remaining 5 years and seek redemption in the next GE

The_Hypocrite, look at it this way.

WP may be making good progress or winning, if I may say so. Credit and salute goes to them.

but at times, We need those 60% to first end up like this 38-year-old-PMET first before WP really comes in as the govt and PM to save the day. These group of people will denounced the WP (if they take over) and happily carry on their lives uninterrupted while WP works hard to correct things and repair the damage.
many who voted for WP or Oppo have gone thru hell and high water. the 60% obviously have not!!!
why have the WP save them as well and they are the ones who voted for PAP?


http://www.transitioning.org/2011/10/23/38-year-old-jobless-pmet-i-have-attempted-suicide-a-number-of-times/
 

mesmerised

Alfrescian
Loyal
WP should target those holding MOS equivalent appointments.
These individuals have to show " ministerial " potential but I believe those who were
previously back- benchers will be torn by their consciousness between defending govt policies
and their personal feelings that things on the ground are not that sweet.

The next big session will be Budget Day. PAP will open the floodgates and
literally throw money to win back support . But given their business like methods, will give 100 and take back 99!

Every Ministry must be made to account for the funds they are seeking !
 

steffychun

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thought it was not an unexpected and quite an obvious and intelligent approach of having their members cover different issues across the country ranging from press freedom to SME being choked by GLCs, the PAP MPs are either resorting to attacking the messenger rather than addressing the message as in Shanmugam's case or completely talking rubbish like Lim Swee Say.

Suddenly the PAP does not look like a party that has merits or believes in merit. I could not find a single PAP MP who was able to acquit himself or herself decently when addressing issues raised by the WP MPs. Lets us be clear here. The comments by WP MPs are not earth shattering but clearly reflecting what is the common perception on the ground. WP under LTK is noted for caution and this time it is no different. Looks like the strategy is inch slowly, not to confront and to let the PAP dig a deeper hole.

If the PAP is smart, they will coordinate their attacks, carry a soft tone and begin working around the WP edges.

In essence, the PAP is eroding its hold not because of WP but because of their style, their approach and their disdain for treating the man on the street as an economic digit with productivity rating.


WP attack is going well but they forgot to attack the foreign policy part in the President's speech. Yes, FP is not a strong issue for Singaporeans,, but it has never been attacked. I don't consider SDP's human right's mantra. How about is the government right to support the Afghanistan campaign. Why is Singapore allowing the basing of US ships in Singapore. The policy towards Taiwan, North Korea etc etc.
 

jadu45

New Member
Interesting topic what you have shared with us. Your writing skill is really very appreciative. I love when you share your views through the best articles.Keep sharing and posting articles like these.This article has helped me a lot.Keep posting this stuff.
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
Today I read what Shanmugam said to the Press on WP's speeches in parliament. He said he acknowledged that his govt does not have a monopoly of ideas on national issues. This is the kind of statements that invite cynicism. Does he even believe it himself?

Perhaps what he had honestly wanted to say was this:

"Look, guys, we have cornered all the brains; so we have all the best ideas already. You guys havent said a single word that even sounds like what we have said, so we didnt think you guys are thinking with us. But again, not that we have a monopoly of wisdom, but we can hardly call yrs "constructive suggestions" until they walk and talk like ours. We are always prepared to listen, but you have to say the things we want to hear. Hehe."

As they say, "Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose". But with the PAP, it's the more they say they will change, the more they remain the same.
 
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nextinfidel

Alfrescian
Loyal
>>>GE: Low Thia Khiang's move decided "long ago"
>>>LHL will have to instill Martial Law
>>>LKY: freak election result, then the army will have to be called in.

Low Thia decided "long ago" to contest GRC. means he's taken a long and hard look before making that risky and difficult decision.

for us. we also have to start to decide and to know what to do when there is martial law implemented and when the army have to be called in.

we (as reservists and citizens) have to be very clear what we want to do and whose side you want to be on. we have to decide NOW!!!!.

what do you do if mobilised to put down a riot against the PAP?
1) go AWOL when they mobilised you?
2) report to camp, take arms and ammo and then turn around against the PAP?
3) report to camp, take arms and ammo and then go AWOL?
4) report to camp, gain access to sensitive data and strategies and spread them out like wild fire?
5) get weapons and ammo and seal off all the border exit points to prevent PAP from getting out of the country?
6) produced a pack of cards of all the prominent PAP members like what the US have in Iraq?

these are all tactical matters that you must consider and think about carefully.

its not just "I support WP or NSP" but tactically what you are going to do when martial law is implemented. and how you can hoodwink and wriggle past them and turn around and point the guns at the PAP during martial law.

WP will handle the political scene.
We have to handle the tactical miliary scene on the ground.
 
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Getloud

Alfrescian
Loyal
I'm quite sure that if PAP instil Martial Law, they will end up like Gaddafi.
Would you take up arms to defend PAP and slaughter your family?
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Dear Scroobal,

To a certain extend, I would agree with you that the multi-prongs approach is taking toll on PAP. After decades of absence of real challenge in parliament, PAP isn't that used to handle 9 opposition MPs at one shot.

However, for every strategy taken, there bound to have "trade off". With limited MPs, spreading out in multi-prong approach, you will find that actually WP has spread themselves too thin. In fact, they were not able to lend support power to each other during the parliamentary debate. Only LTK managed to do a last minute support for two of his party colleagues at the later part of parliamentary debate but not during the onslaught. This is the shortcoming that they will need to overcome: they will have to be on the look out on how to help other party colleagues to fight off PAP attacks, especially so when the attacks are full of holes.

There is one underlying tone which I find disturbing though. I think, in spite of our disgust of PM Lee's fumble on "fix the opposition", he got it right politically that opposition parties are not there to help PAP to be better. Technically, they are political opponents and thus,it is understandable that they would view each criticism by opposition as "threats". However, it seems to me that WP MPs were trying very hard to tell PAP that we are here to provide feedback to you and give you some ideas so that you can make better policies.

The CSM's "inappropriate" (yes, in my view that is totally inappropriate) analogy about Tang Emperor and Wei Zheng has such underlying tone. Pritam's attempt to "help" PAP in "engaging" Singaporeans is another case in view. I find that quite amusing but disturbing as well.

It is the job of PAP MPs to help their ministers to do their job better. The ruling party's role is to rule, make policies etc. The role of opposition party is to oppose or criticise policies which they think is against public interests. Their role is to contest against policy ideas but not to help the ruling party to refine policies, least, suggest better policy options for the ruling party. This is the modern "Political Ethics" based on democratic principles.

There are rooms for improvement but one note, LTK is definitely not Lim Chin Song. LCS failed politically but LTK has, though in my view a very conservative way, edged on politically.

Although you may have some misgiving about Indranee, but she did make the best speech among the PAP MPs. A respectable opponent I should say. My first engagement with Indranee in Talking point left me a strong impression of this Senior Counsel. She is worth her salt as SC.

Goh Meng Seng



Thought it was not an unexpected and quite an obvious and intelligent approach of having their members cover different issues across the country ranging from press freedom to SME being choked by GLCs, the PAP MPs are either resorting to attacking the messenger rather than addressing the message as in Shanmugam's case or completely talking rubbish like Lim Swee Say.

Suddenly the PAP does not look like a party that has merits or believes in merit. I could not find a single PAP MP who was able to acquit himself or herself decently when addressing issues raised by the WP MPs. Lets us be clear here. The comments by WP MPs are not earth shattering but clearly reflecting what is the common perception on the ground. WP under LTK is noted for caution and this time it is no different. Looks like the strategy is inch slowly, not to confront and to let the PAP dig a deeper hole.

If the PAP is smart, they will coordinate their attacks, carry a soft tone and begin working around the WP edges.

In essence, the PAP is eroding its hold not because of WP but because of their style, their approach and their disdain for treating the man on the street as an economic digit with productivity rating.
 

Forvendet

Alfrescian
Loyal
They may recall Cpt. GMS to enforce martial law, particularly against WP. If you've read post-GE GMS postings and rantings, he's more anti-WP than PAP.
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
You don't even understand what is "anti"! :wink:

There are rotten apples in WP and these are the people who need the beatings. I could have done something more drastic but WP name would be dragged down which I don't think that is deserving. Just a few nasty insects in WP, don't need to call the pest control. :wink:

I have said before, just as CSM has said, criticisms will only help to improve the party and the party should be open to criticisms. If you think my criticisms are bad for WP, well, think again. I may be the best Wei Zheng that WP could ever find! LOLx! :wink:

Goh Meng Seng



They may recall Cpt. GMS to enforce martial law, particularly against WP. If you've read post-GE GMS postings and rantings, he's more anti-WP than PAP.
 

neddy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
My opinion

WP is doing an excellent job for the future of Singapore. This should go down in history as the re-emerging of people's voice in Parliament.

The PAP can do a few things:-
1. Live with it and hope the problem will go away. Which I don't think so. If people can see WP as the people's voice.
2. Bring in spin doctors and image consultants to improve its image and ability in the voters' eyes. If they still remember the voters.
3. Play the WP game and re-engage with the people. Which PAP will have problems coming to terms with. There are a number of private sector rejects in the PAP camp.

If WP continues, the PAP will be PUSH to change. It is no longer business as usual.

Look at people like Chen, engaging the people through Facebook. Political journalism is changing with social media used to bypass the mainstream media.
 
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sleaguepunter

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
WP may have done well in the first battle of the parliment but the war cannot be won there. To win the war, WP must continue to agressively engaging the common ppl thru grassroot activities. pap and its lackey the PA already up the exposure rate of its ministars and mpees. on saturday, admirer teo attend an event in sengkang with tpl and amy khor and had a reduce security presence and sat on the floor like everybody else. the great pap charm offensive had began and other APs are still dreaming. most if not all ministries will be throwing $$ around to win back support. The three critical ministries will be MoH, MoT and MoND. look out for their next yr budget.
 

@rmadill0

Alfrescian
Loyal
However, for every strategy taken, there bound to have "trade off". With limited MPs, spreading out in multi-prong approach, you will find that actually WP has spread themselves too thin. In fact, they were not able to lend support power to each other during the parliamentary debate. Only LTK managed to do a last minute support for two of his party colleagues at the later part of parliamentary debate but not during the onslaught. This is the shortcoming that they will need to overcome: they will have to be on the look out on how to help other party colleagues to fight off PAP attacks, especially so when the attacks are full of holes.

I do not believe WP will go full frontal assault with the PAP. Numerically, they are still at a disadvantage. From what I have observed, they are engaging in guerrilla warfare. Small troop, hit, cause some damage, run. I can't beat you on numbers, I beat you on nimbleness and mobility. So what if the PAP's counters are full of holes. No urgent need for me to exploit it. Educated citizens can see the holes and form the impression that PAP is shaken. This itself, is enough.

The CSM's "inappropriate" (yes, in my view that is totally inappropriate) analogy about Tang Emperor and Wei Zheng has such underlying tone. Pritam's attempt to "help" PAP in "engaging" Singaporeans is another case in view. I find that quite amusing but disturbing as well.

With all due respect, if there is any underlying tone in CSM's analogy, it has to be PAP should listen to alternative views, just that how Tang Tai Zong had listened Wei Zheng even though Wei was helping his brother, the crown prince during the earlier power struggle.

It is the job of PAP MPs to help their ministers to do their job better. The ruling party's role is to rule, make policies etc. The role of opposition party is to oppose or criticise policies which they think is against public interests. Their role is to contest against policy ideas but not to help the ruling party to refine policies, least, suggest better policy options for the ruling party. This is the modern "Political Ethics" based on democratic principles.

I disagree with this democrative principles you mentioned. Why can't WP be opposing and at the same time suggesting alternatives? PAP precisely want the Opposition to portray the image that they are only here to oppose, to make noise but cannot come up with anything better. WP should shed this image if they want to prove to the voters that they are capable of taking over the driver seat in years to come.

There are rooms for improvement but one note, LTK is definitely not Lim Chin Song. LCS failed politically but LTK has, though in my view a very conservative way, edged on politically.

Although you may have some misgiving about Indranee, but she did make the best speech among the PAP MPs. A respectable opponent I should say. My first engagement with Indranee in Talking point left me a strong impression of this Senior Counsel. She is worth her salt as SC.

Goh Meng Seng

I agree with you on LTK. Among the opposition leaders, only he had moved forward - achieved through diligent ground work and strategic planning. Most importantly, only he gets his succession planning right. On Indranee, anyone who watched that episode of "Talking Point" will see that you are in awe of her presence.
 
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Forvendet

Alfrescian
Loyal
You don't even understand what is "anti"! :wink:

There are rotten apples in WP and these are the people who need the beatings. I could have done something more drastic but WP name would be dragged down which I don't think that is deserving. Just a few nasty insects in WP, don't need to call the pest control. :wink:

I have said before, just as CSM has said, criticisms will only help to improve the party and the party should be open to criticisms. If you think my criticisms are bad for WP, well, think again. I may be the best Wei Zheng that WP could ever find! LOLx! :wink:

Goh Meng Seng

It's just a joke. Only the English educated can understand and appreciate. :biggrin:
 

sleaguepunter

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
You don't even understand what is "anti"! :wink:

There are rotten apples in WP and these are the people who need the beatings. I could have done something more drastic but WP name would be dragged down which I don't think that is deserving. Just a few nasty insects in WP, don't need to call the pest control. :wink:

I have said before, just as CSM has said, criticisms will only help to improve the party and the party should be open to criticisms. If you think my criticisms are bad for WP, well, think again. I may be the best Wei Zheng that WP could ever find! LOLx! :wink:

Goh Meng Seng

hahaha.... u r wei zheng???? hahaha.... manz... your skin must be hippo grade.
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
I guess we have to agree to disagree. :smile:

You don't go all out to use analogy to suggest that you are a subject of your opponent. If this happen in Taiwan or even Hong Kong, that will be big taboo and hell on the media front. You will be mocked mercilessly... etc.

You criticise PAP policies but SELL YOUR POLICIES to YOUR RIGHT CUSTOMERS....i.e. VOTERS. You don't just tell PAP what to do! That is the basics of modern politics. I guess you will have to get this right first.

As for the Talking Point issue, haha, I guess people who watched, will only remember on how Michael Palmer being pawned. :wink:

Goh Meng Seng



I do not believe WP will go full frontal assault with the PAP. Numerically, they are still at a disadvantage. From what I have observed, they are engaging in guerrilla warfare. Small troop, hit, cause some damage, run. I can't beat you on numbers, I beat you on nimbleness and mobility. So what if the PAP's counters are full of holes. No urgent need for me to exploit it. Educated citizens can see the holes and form the impression that PAP is shaken. This itself, is enough.



With all due respect, if there is any underlying tone in CSM's analogy, it has to be PAP should listen to alternative views, just that how Tang Tai Zong had listened Wei Zheng even though Wei was helping his brother, the crown prince during the earlier power struggle.



I disagree with this democrative principles you mentioned. Why can't WP be opposing and at the same time suggesting alternatives? PAP precisely want the Opposition to portray the image that they are only here to oppose, to make noise but cannot come up with anything better. WP should shed this image if they want to prove to the voters that they are capable of taking over the driver seat in years to come.



I agree with you on LTK. Among the opposition leaders, only he had moved forward - achieved through diligent ground work and strategic planning. Most importantly, only he gets his succession planning right. On Indranee, anyone who watched that episode of "Talking Point" will see that you are in awe of her presence.
 

sleaguepunter

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
You criticise PAP policies but SELL YOUR POLICIES to YOUR RIGHT CUSTOMERS....i.e. VOTERS. You don't just tell PAP what to do! That is the basics of modern politics. I guess you will have to get this right first.
Goh Meng Seng

u know the way to win but dunno how to apply it for your victory.

wp is not providing answers to the pap but making a show to convince the general public (the middle ground) that wp is helping pap to govern. The middle gound (40%) do not want a confrontation opposition party but a opposition party that can replace pap when pap flounder. wp is just wayanging lol.
 

ThePlen

Alfrescian
Loyal
WP had to show the PAP that they are no pushovers and they have. wayang or not, we can't tell yet but at least there are people out there to discipline the PAP
 
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