PAP Leadership Crisis

[scroobal]

When Little Speck wrote the recent article on leadership, I thought there must be something going on and it seems that is indeed the case.

2 issues facing the PAP.

1) Presidential Elections - not going according to plan and it now used as a mechanism by voters to register protest votes and the office has been seriously undermined. It is very unlikely that potential candidates with good background are prepared to humiliate themselves when the actual target is the PAP. Despite using the entire machinery on a unprecedented scale to mobilise, unions, employer federations, clans, chambers of commerce, TT only garnered a miserable 34%. And only because of TJS, he got in.

PAP while they have 2/3 majority can amend the constitution and that opportunity might go soon. So see some movement in this space before 2016

2) Cabinet Level Leadership Crisis
This is more serious. They made mistakes and the talent pool is rapidly drying out as it is no longer the assured career path. Good candidates are not prepared to step forward. No one wants to be considered a sycophant. A perennially missing PM during times of crisis is not going to be taken lightly by people with leadership quality.

Here is something quite unexpected that has been floated and seriously considered. This too requires an amendment to the constitution. The Malaysians have done it. Do they get a Richard Hu who is co-opted into Cabinet without any party affiliation or standing for elections. This is likely to have appeal across society and even across opposition parties if the individual is well respected and known to be politically neutral. Such posts however needs to be limited.

After the loss of 2 cabinet ministers at the last GE, followed by the dismissal of further 2 cabinet ministers and the rejections of 2 cabinet potential candidates - one in GE2011 and the other in the last BE, the PAP is not in a happy place. Imagine all within 2 years. Only one Cabinet Minister out of 3 PS grades that crossed over seems to have made it. A crisis in indeed. 3 lawsuits and one from a newbie acting cabinet minister shows that nerves are being frayed. Another newbie cabinet minister has sidelined himself by making insensitive remarks online.

Kiss-ass time I suppose.

 

[TracyTan866]

Dear scroobal,

the crisis didnt happen recently. It was festering over the last 10years because of bad pap policies, manipulation of the system and abuse.

Is it surprising that it surfaced with a vengeance?

The worst is yet to come. I am one who believe the pap is sliding down the popularity chart real fast. Many analysts think that the pap will lose another one or two GRCs.

with the ground anger against the pap and an ineffective and non performing PM who keeps embarassing himself, I am more optimistic than most and believe that the pap will struggle to win a simple majority at the next GE shd more credible candidates come in and contest under opposition tickets.

No PAP heavyweights is safe at the next GE. every pap candidate has to fight hard to win.

so it's interesting time for SG and I look forward to many pleasant surprises. Perhaps we will see a revival of the true Singapore Spirit who will cheer for the underdog against the PAP villain.

will PAP fall at the next GE?

 

[Hawkeye1819]

Rather than amending the constitution on the PE front, I see the PAP relaxing rules slightly to allow more presidential candidates. They have run out of ideas, so they will keep trying to do the same things over and over again. Spoilers worked in 2011, so they will try the same in 2017. Not sure if they'll use TJS again as he's a spent force.

Ministers are political office holders so it'll be a very delicate issue to depoliticize the office as what you've suggested. The cabinet works to secure the position of the ruling party and that of the prime minister. Its the centre of gravity of party politics.

More likely I feel they might go for some kind of proportional representation - overhauling the outdated NMP/NCMP schemes and getting in token opposition MPs based on nationwide voting proportion. This will benefit WP and NSP, but sideline SDP, SPP and the small (insignificant) parties.

 

[Hawkeye1819]

the crisis didnt happen recently. It was festering over the last 10years because of bad pap policies, manipulation of the system and abuse.

It started in GCT's time with asset enhancement and shifting of ministerial pay to the top echelons of the private sector.

 

[scroobal]

We noticed the slide in terms of performance for sometime but it was not a crisis because they always had a pool that they can fall back on. After 2011, it became acute and summary dismissal of Mah and Raymond Lim was when they realised that they needed to fix it. The issue now is that pool has suddenly shrunk as now one is keen to associated with a listing ship.

A respected observer said that it was not WP taking a GRC which in itself is monumental but Paul Tambyah of SDP and a member of the establishment taking the stage at an opposition rally. That was a pivotal moment when the ground shifted. An NUS Medical Lecturer who comes from a well regarded family fighting for the masses on social issue close to our heart. If you notice that Khaw and no one from MOH have come back on the things that he has raised. The ostruch bearing its head in the sand.

There is no genuine loss confidence in the PAP leadership even from the establishment.

Dear scroobal,

the crisis didnt happen recently. It was festering over the last 10years because of bad pap policies, manipulation of the system and abuse.

Is it surprising that it surfaced with a vengeance?


will PAP fall at the next GE?

 

[TracyTan866]

We noticed the slide in terms of performance for sometime but it was not a crisis because they always had a pool that they can fall back on. After 2011, it became acute and summary dismissal of Mah and Raymond Lim was when they realised that they needed to fix it. The issue now is that pool has suddenly shrunk as now one is keen to associated with a listing ship.

A respected observer said that it was not WP taking a GRC which in itself is monumental but Paul Tambyah of SDP and a member of the establishment taking the stage at an opposition rally. That was a pivotal moment when the ground shifted. An NUS Medical Lecturer who comes from a well regarded family fighting for the masses on social issue close to our heart. If you notice that Khaw and no one from MOH have come back on the things that he has raised. The ostruch bearing its head in the sand.

There is no genuine loss confidence in the PAP leadership even from the establishment.

Thanks for your views.

The crisis was already there albeit didnt surface until abt 2years ago.

But the slide and poor performance of the pap were apparent to some many years ago. It was because there was really no means to share that prevented more people from know the truth.

But with social media, more people will get to see pap's poor performance and this will result in more candidates falling like KPK and Desmond Choo at the next GE

 

[jw5]

A respected observer said that it was not WP taking a GRC which in itself is monumental

According to you Scroobal, LTK of WP is a pap agent.
Most of us know this allegation is bogus, but you made this allegation.
So how can WP taking a GRC be monumental?

And when you tried to sabotage WP and CSM before GE 2011, were you trying to prevent the monumental occasion?

You won't be able to continue with this pathetic fake discussion of yours with any dignity and integrity, if you don't address these issues regarding your comments about WP and the opposition.

 

[Hawkeye1819]

The crisis was already there albeit didnt surface until abt 2years ago.

The slide has become more apparent because the issue of population and foreigner has hit Singaporeans very hard. In the past, it was more about economic mismanagement and cronyism which is apparent to certain quarters but not to all as not all were equally affected. Pop and immigration however affects everyone from school kids to the old folks.

Alternative media also has regularly highlighted PAP fumblings and poor ministerial performance, and this has sunk in as well.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroo,

Why would a PAP system in all its glory not select or call forth people like Paul T and the rest. People with credentials and or a social conscience. ? I believe that what a politician says in public and what a politician says in private are two differing things, but for some reason pre GE 2011, the competition amongst the ministers was a race to be who could be more hard core. Callous remarks abounded from KBW to VB, RL ignored the concerns of public transport, flooding was ponding, overcrowding was normal. We all saw a change in tune after 2011 and after the apology from the PM but who set the tune prior to 2011, who was calling the shots ?

The establishment live in a different zone from the rest of Singapore. Paying them well is one thing but finding people living from a different planet is another. Being rich but having a social and political conscience. ? A sense of duty , a sense of service, they do exist even within the establishment, but they will be smart enough to know when your values and theirs align or when and where u will be expected to align your values with theirs.

An out of touch leadership, a vanishing PM or an aloof PM. a grassroots which tells the leadership what they seek to hear all tied to a dated strategy, a dated ideology and an ideologue in the cabinet still defying change and modernity, such are the makings of an absolute disaster.



Locke

We noticed the slide in terms of performance for sometime but it was not a crisis because they always had a pool that they can fall back on. After 2011, it became acute and summary dismissal of Mah and Raymond Lim was when they realised that they needed to fix it. The issue now is that pool has suddenly shrunk as now one is keen to associated with a listing ship.

A respected observer said that it was not WP taking a GRC which in itself is monumental but Paul Tambyah of SDP and a member of the establishment taking the stage at an opposition rally. That was a pivotal moment when the ground shifted. An NUS Medical Lecturer who comes from a well regarded family fighting for the masses on social issue close to our heart. If you notice that Khaw and no one from MOH have come back on the things that he has raised. The ostruch bearing its head in the sand.

There is no genuine loss confidence in the PAP leadership even from the establishment.

 

[Hawkeye1819]

Locke

Pre GE2011 toeing the party line and advancing its interests were seen as the sure path to career stability for pap office holders. Even if they went against common sense or detrimental to the welfare of people.

What changed post 2011 was that the safe and secure ceased to be. So we are slowly moving to an environment that may produce another tcb or perhaps something even more important like for example a real split.

The lessening of the climate of fear also mean that the Paul tambayas who were forced to hide in the past can now emerge.

Interesting times.

Dear Scroo,

Why would a PAP system in all its glory not select or call forth people like Paul T and the rest. People with credentials and or a social conscience. ? I believe that what a politician says in public and what a politician says in private are two differing things, but for some reason pre GE 2011, the competition amongst the ministers was a race to be who could be more hard core. Callous remarks abounded from KBW to VB, RL ignored the concerns of public transport, flooding was ponding, overcrowding was normal. We all saw a change in tune after 2011 and after the apology from the PM but who set the tune prior to 2011, who was calling the shots ?

The establishment live in a different zone from the rest of Singapore. Paying them well is one thing but finding people living from a different planet is another. Being rich but having a social and political conscience. ? A sense of duty , a sense of service, they do exist even within the establishment, but they will be smart enough to know when your values and theirs align or when and where u will be expected to align your values with theirs.

An out of touch leadership, a vanishing PM or an aloof PM. a grassroots which tells the leadership what they seek to hear all tied to a dated strategy, a dated ideology and an ideologue in the cabinet still defying change and modernity, such are the makings of an absolute disaster.



Locke

 

[Dreamer1]

Brother Scroobal,I am only looking forward to the night when Mr Anwar (a Gay who likes to fuck backside apart from his wife who produced 4 kids for him,according to MM Lee) is declared the new PM of Malaysia because it is going to happen real soon,I am happy that I can see MM Lee talking when a Gay claimed by him is made the PM of his big brother,LOL,
1) Presidential Elections & 2) Cabinet Level Leadership Crisis,KIV as PM Lee is a real slow worker,I bet it would be done few months before 2016

 

[3_M]

Here is something quite unexpected that has been floated and seriously considered. This too requires an amendment to the constitution. The Malaysians have done it. Do they get a Richard Hu who is co-opted into Cabinet without any party affiliation or standing for elections. This is likely to have appeal across society and even across opposition parties if the individual is well respected and known to be politically neutral. Such posts however needs to be limited.

After the loss of 2 cabinet ministers at the last GE, followed by the dismissal of further 2 cabinet ministers and the rejections of 2 cabinet potential candidates - one in GE2011 and the other in the last BE, the PAP is not in a happy place. Imagine all within 2 years. Only one Cabinet Minister out of 3 PS grades that crossed over seems to have made it. A crisis in indeed. 3 lawsuits and one from a newbie acting cabinet minister shows that nerves are being frayed. Another newbie cabinet minister has sidelined himself by making insensitive remarks online.

.

If PAP could invent absurd schemes like vetted presidency candidates, NCMP, nominated MP, I don't see what stopping them from introducing 'Nominated Minister' scheme. If PAP continues to lose more ministers and MOS, joining politics will no longer be seen by potential candidates as an extension of their civil service career. PAP might need to consider having nominated minister in-order to attract people to join the party without fear of losing election. But perhaps what holding the PAP back is it might backfire on the party as it will further encourage electorates to vote oppositions without the fear of undermining the cabinet.

 

[kingrant]

I think we shld resist this absolutely. In no time, they will go on and justify and legitimise a mandarinate to rule over an administrative state, so as to bypass all election and populist encumberances. Old man had thought along these lines including giving more voting powers (e.g. two votes to businessmen and elites). This will be the surest way to totally entrench the PAP as the government of the day, and after a time, they will seek to abolish elections since there is no further need for them to choose leaders. Maybe they will have an executive President who will give his nod to such an admin elite, much like the Thai king does. Then, we will really be in deeper shit, with no alternatives that do not kiss ass.

Here is something quite unexpected that has been floated and seriously considered. This too requires an amendment to the constitution. The Malaysians have done it. Do they get a Richard Hu who is co-opted into Cabinet without any party affiliation or standing for elections. This is likely to have appeal across society and even across opposition parties if the individual is well respected and known to be politically neutral. Such posts however needs to be limited.

 

[kingrant]

If they go this way, what makes you think they still want to have elections and therefore the raison d'etre for Opposition parties?

But perhaps what holding the PAP back is it might backfire on the party as it will further encourage electorates to vote oppositions without the fear of undermining the cabinet.

 

[kingrant]

Maybe they know that PT would never want to jump on the PAP bandwagon, or they did, and he turned them down.

Why would a PAP system in all its glory not select or call forth people like Paul T and the rest.

 

[Hawkeye1819]

I think we shld resist this absolutely. In no time, they will go on and justify and legitimise a mandarinate to rule over an administrative state, so as to bypass all election and populist encumberances. Old man had thought along these lines including giving more voting powers (e.g. two votes to businessmen and elites). This will be the surest way to totally entrench the PAP as the government of the day, and after a time, they will seek to abolish elections since there is no further need for them to choose leaders. Maybe they will have an executive President who will give his nod to such an admin elite, much like the Thai king does. Then, we will really be in deeper shit, with no alternatives that do not kiss ass.

There's a limit to how far they can push this, with an electorate that is more sophisticated. That's why Scroo said it has to be limited to a small number of posts.

They can't stem the tide with the bandages proposed in this thread. Only way is the completely overhaul how they view Singaporeans and their approach to politics as well as political engineering. But that's easier said than done. Their vested interests in the economy alone is worth hundreds of billions and they have a legion of cronies whose mouths they must feed in order to hold the party together.

 

[Charlie99]

It started in GCT's time with asset enhancement and shifting of ministerial pay to the top echelons of the private sector.

With respect, I believe that the "asset enhancement" policy may have caused the price of HDB flat to rise above the affordability of most people,
besides increasing the cost of living.

 

[winnipegjets]

With respect, I believe that the "asset enhancement" policy may have caused the price of HDB flat to rise above the affordability of most people,
besides increasing the cost of living.

If wages in sinkapore rise in tandem with rise in asset, affordability would not be an issue. Price of new HDB flat were artificially jacked up when they tied its price to resale HDB flat.

 

[Charlie99]

If wages in sinkapore rise in tandem with rise in asset, affordability would not be an issue. Price of new HDB flat were artificially jacked up when they tied its price to resale HDB flat.

Agree.
HDB flats were affordable in the 1970's, and may be early 1980's (not sure because I left in very early 1980's).

 

[kingrant]

Winnipegjet is correct. These buggers focus on solving single degree one dimensional equations, not simultaneous equations of a multiple order. Now the flooding of Singapore by foreign labour is yet another example of a single equation solved in one dim.

The overarching rule by dictat by an ageing dictator is being replaced by a chaotic ensemble of scholar ex-civil servants and army generals who think they each know what the elephant looks like.

Agree.
HDB flats were affordable in the 1970's, and may be early 1980's (not sure because I left in very early 1980's).