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if u given a chance to migrate out of singapore which country would u migrate to?

topmoonkek

Alfrescian
Loyal
bro if u really want to move to singapore u have to really consider 100000000X if u are very rich and got a few million dollar in the bank then sg is a good place to live.
from the outside singapore looks like a perfect place to live "clean and green" .
i was born in singapore and lived there for 37years and honestly in singapore there really no real benefits what they "give" they will take 100 times! i can see my future in sg pushing trolly collecting boxes just to buy a packet of rice for me and for my dear wife.

hi topmoonkek. I guess you're new to the forum and a welcome is in order. First of all, thanks for sharing your German experience. It was very interesting. I think I could listen to stories that condense life experiences forever. I'm actually quite similar to you. Am Malaysian too.

Although I've had my experiences, I have a slightly different take on it, but that's not so important for now. I'm just adding a different point of view to the mix. I would assume you're juggling at least a postgraduate degree in addition to your undergraduate? If so, Singapore is more highly biased towards you. Singapore treats people without tertiary education very, very poorly. Hence, I'm assuming that's the reason why amransan had to live through hell while he was here. I'm happy for him now that he's moved and feels more appreciated where he is.

Thanks. I do have a postgrad degree and agree with you that it sucks to be poor (lack of higher education can just an effect of being poor).

As I've written elsewhere, I don't think it's just tertiary education but specifically those of the "overseas" variety. Foreign (AKA western, because too many Msians think they are "studying abroad" in Singapore then complain they get treated like dirt and the same shit as the average Singaporean complains about) education and work experience are worshipped in Malaysia and Singapore. This has been the case for decades now.

It's almost a requirement to go abroad for a couple of years for uni and/or work, preferably both, in order to be successful. Typically after returning to Malaysia, those kinds of people will place in jobs based on their qualifications, similar to their local peers... the real difference is over time. They get promoted faster and more often, they're given more raises, and generally climb up very quickly.

I think that success is caused by both elements of white worship/overseas bias (external) and attitude difference (internal). Those who go overseas tend to learn how to be more assertive and communicate better, while classic local mindset is plagued with too shy, don't want to cause trouble or seem greedy and all kinds of other traits that can be summarized as docile fucks. The ones who stay local also tend to inherit and develop all sorts of shitty traits thanks to the bullshit advice given by their parents/older people and the culture of anecdotal evidence.

Classic advice is "you have to work hard and bE DiScIpLiNeD then you will become successful" from older folks and all the young people end up slaving away long hours at work, when the reality is playing politics and trying to buddy up with the people in power is how people ACTUALLY become successful. Or the "buy property is the only way to get rich" bullshit... do these people have ANY clue how much work it takes to be a landlord from tenant lottery when trying to find one, dealing with tenant requests, maintenance of the property both during the tenant's stay and the overall time, just to get 4-6% ROI (could use an agent but it cuts in on profits even more). Could dump a bunch of money into the stock market and go to sleep and get 7-10% return over the long haul. But no, there's a whole "stock market is spooky and can make you BANKRUPT!!!!!" and "must attend stock courses with bro-science bullshitter guru" culture for that.

I don't want to speak for Singapore because I don't know as many people there and I've personally never lived there, but based on what I've heard or read, it seems very similar.
 

amransan

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thanks. I do have a postgrad degree and agree with you that it sucks to be poor (lack of higher education can just an effect of being poor).

As I've written elsewhere, I don't think it's just tertiary education but specifically those of the "overseas" variety. Foreign (AKA western, because too many Msians think they are "studying abroad" in Singapore then complain they get treated like dirt and the same shit as the average Singaporean complains about) education and work experience are worshipped in Malaysia and Singapore. This has been the case for decades now.

It's almost a requirement to go abroad for a couple of years for uni and/or work, preferably both, in order to be successful. Typically after returning to Malaysia, those kinds of people will place in jobs based on their qualifications, similar to their local peers... the real difference is over time. They get promoted faster and more often, they're given more raises, and generally climb up very quickly.

I think that success is caused by both elements of white worship/overseas bias (external) and attitude difference (internal). Those who go overseas tend to learn how to be more assertive and communicate better, while classic local mindset is plagued with too shy, don't want to cause trouble or seem greedy and all kinds of other traits that can be summarized as docile fucks. The ones who stay local also tend to inherit and develop all sorts of shitty traits thanks to the bullshit advice given by their parents/older people and the culture of anecdotal evidence.

Classic advice is "you have to work hard and bE DiScIpLiNeD then you will become successful" from older folks and all the young people end up slaving away long hours at work, when the reality is playing politics and trying to buddy up with the people in power is how people ACTUALLY become successful. Or the "buy property is the only way to get rich" bullshit... do these people have ANY clue how much work it takes to be a landlord from tenant lottery when trying to find one, dealing with tenant requests, maintenance of the property both during the tenant's stay and the overall time, just to get 4-6% ROI (could use an agent but it cuts in on profits even more). Could dump a bunch of money into the stock market and go to sleep and get 7-10% return over the long haul. But no, there's a whole "stock market is spooky and can make you BANKRUPT!!!!!" and "must attend stock courses with bro-science bullshitter guru" culture for that.

I don't want to speak for Singapore because I don't know as many people there and I've personally never lived there, but based on what I've heard or read, it seems very similar.

bro in singapore i work like a dog even asked to do jobs not my job scope for 10 years.
i know myself i am not educated but can work very hard to prove my worth and not even once i get promoted but other new staff can get promotion every 2 years and everytime i look at the brighter side and tell myself maybe my luck not there yet and after 10 years also no luck LOL.

i been scream at i been threaten with warning letter even its not my fault. so many time i kena backstab until i inmune like eating rice everyday.
even when i offer my hand to shake hand to wish all the best to the office colleague who leaving that person just look at my hand and dont want to shake my hand (u can see from here my status in sg is lower then shit) these are the few minor things i experience.

after 10 years i quit that toxic company and work in a finance company where 80% are foreigners. because it is a ang mo company the culture they follow also ang mo culture. and i still work the same job as mailroom cum despatch and guess what the foreigners colleagues treated me very well like i am a human being while some local staff trying to makan me still. well to compare to my old work place to me this is heaven already lol.
and after 4 years later i quit the company and my CEO (ang mo) get to know that day is my last day and he secrectly organise a farewell party!!! at the party which i dont know he gave a speech and said in his more then 30 years of being CEO he never seen such a hard working staff before (at that time in my head i want to go home early since it is my last day lol) and then he call my name and ask me to give a speech!!! i was really surprise and give a small speech and after the speech he told the staff to enjoy the food and told me when i finish eating he want to see me in his office. in his office we talk and he say thank you to me for all the good job i done and he gave me his personal hp number and told me when i go for job interview give them his number!
when i went for interview in Australia the HR was very surprise and very please that the referer is my CEO and she said my CEO said highly of me!

sorry bro my english not that good i hope u can understand :smile:
thanks for ready bro :smile:
 
Last edited:

nightsafari

Alfrescian
Loyal
i strongly believe why singapore turn out to be like this a souless country is because it progress too fast and people there been brainwashed ever since they enter primary school where students compete eachother to be the top in class from there slowly in their mind it is very important to be no.1 and this mindset will follow them until they enter working world they will do whatever it takes to get promoted and to be the top in the company. they even backstab eachother to reach their goal that is how toxic working in singapore bro if u are nice person like me u will be step on and spit on there.

u know honestly last time when we were still living in sg my inlaw will bring me and my wife to malaysia during CNY where they got relatives there (for me i dont have any malaysian relative in malaysia all of my relative are in sg but 4 years ago i got to know one of my cousin she quietly migrated to malaysia so now i got one relaitve in malaysia lah :smile: ) i always very happy and looking forward to meet up my wife side relatives in malaysia we get along very well and everytime they come to sg they surely ask my inlaw where is Amran :smile: and bro i find chinese malaysian are very humble and very friendly it really reminded me when i was in kampong the olden day where everyone are friendly bro! :smile:
and sometime me and my wife save money for a few month once we got about $400 and convert it to malaysia ringgit we will go JB to makan, see movies, i go 2 hrs full body thai massage, and buy food and dvd back to sg in the evening. and every time i go malaysia i love to have a chat to strangers no matter they are malay or indian or chinese so far they are very friendly bro :smile:
if in sg even i greet the stare i get up and down like i going to rob them :(
good analysis. I use ok? :smile:
 

nightsafari

Alfrescian
Loyal
bro in singapore i work like a dog even asked to do jobs no my job scope for 10 years because i know myself i am not educated but can work very hard to prove my worth and not even once i get promoted but other new staff can get promotion every 2 years and everytime i look at the brighter side maybe my luck not there yet.
i been scream at i been threaten with warning letter even it not my fault because so many time i kena backstab. even when i offer my hand to shake hand to wish all the best to the office colleague who leaving that person just look at my hand and dont want to shake my hand (u can see from here my status in sg is lower then shit)
these are the few minor things i experience.
forget those losers... they will have the life they deserve.

good people will always recognize good people. bad people will only recognize bad people. :thumbsup:
 

amransan

Alfrescian
Loyal
forget those losers... they will have the life they deserve.

good people will always recognize good people. bad people will only recognize bad people. :thumbsup:

i agree with u bro.

if not for all these toxic treatment i got in sg i think i still in sg working my butt off bro.
thanks to them that i having a decent life everyday is a blessing now:smile:
 

nightsafari

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thanks. I do have a postgrad degree and agree with you that it sucks to be poor (lack of higher education can just an effect of being poor).

As I've written elsewhere, I don't think it's just tertiary education but specifically those of the "overseas" variety. Foreign (AKA western, because too many Msians think they are "studying abroad" in Singapore then complain they get treated like dirt and the same shit as the average Singaporean complains about) education and work experience are worshipped in Malaysia and Singapore. This has been the case for decades now.

It's almost a requirement to go abroad for a couple of years for uni and/or work, preferably both, in order to be successful. Typically after returning to Malaysia, those kinds of people will place in jobs based on their qualifications, similar to their local peers... the real difference is over time. They get promoted faster and more often, they're given more raises, and generally climb up very quickly.

I think that success is caused by both elements of white worship/overseas bias (external) and attitude difference (internal). Those who go overseas tend to learn how to be more assertive and communicate better, while classic local mindset is plagued with too shy, don't want to cause trouble or seem greedy and all kinds of other traits that can be summarized as docile fucks. The ones who stay local also tend to inherit and develop all sorts of shitty traits thanks to the bullshit advice given by their parents/older people and the culture of anecdotal evidence.

Classic advice is "you have to work hard and bE DiScIpLiNeD then you will become successful" from older folks and all the young people end up slaving away long hours at work, when the reality is playing politics and trying to buddy up with the people in power is how people ACTUALLY become successful. Or the "buy property is the only way to get rich" bullshit... do these people have ANY clue how much work it takes to be a landlord from tenant lottery when trying to find one, dealing with tenant requests, maintenance of the property both during the tenant's stay and the overall time, just to get 4-6% ROI (could use an agent but it cuts in on profits even more). Could dump a bunch of money into the stock market and go to sleep and get 7-10% return over the long haul. But no, there's a whole "stock market is spooky and can make you BANKRUPT!!!!!" and "must attend stock courses with bro-science bullshitter guru" culture for that.

I don't want to speak for Singapore because I don't know as many people there and I've personally never lived there, but based on what I've heard or read, it seems very similar.
you analysis is great. actually, I was reading about your decision to choose Singapore. Maybe I'm confusing both threads, but are you still single and young? If you are Singapore is good if you can find the right niche. But once you have kids, that perspective may change.
 

topmoonkek

Alfrescian
Loyal
why dont u go back to malaysia i believe it is far better then living in singapore at least malaysia when u buy food u use in ringgit far cheaper if u use sg dollar in sg bro.
and i heard healthcare is very affordable in malaysia and trust me if u have a major operation in sg the hospital bills in sg can wipe your life saving clean!
and housing in singapore if u can afford a landed propety it will cost u a few million dollar if not u can buy Condo can cost u $1 million dollar if not hdb can cost u start from $350K to $800K and some places $1million
trust me bro singapore will slowly suck all your hard earn saving.

You said you went to the US first right? And the dating market was dry there too? or was it just Germany? Amransan's points that you should consider Malaysia have some validity, but before I pitch it, I want to hear more from you first because nothing quite like understanding a chicken won't swim in lakes where a duck would even though both are similarly sized fowl if you know what I mean.

I was born and raised in KL, am a bit of a spoiled child and so would never consider living in any other Malaysian city other than KL (and by "KL", I'm also including the surrounding suburbs). With that in mind, I completely disagree that Malaysia is better for Singapore for the typical middle to upper-middle class young person.
  1. It's dangerously confusing because they graduate without any debt because their parents paid for their whole education. Even with a very good career and salary in Malaysia, it's hard for them to replicate what their parents did for them for their own children. So their children might be forced to become a lowly local graduate.
  2. I don't see that changing (frowned upon local studies vs overseas prestige) because it has been many years since I finished high school and I'm already at "want to find someone to have kids with age" and the education system in Malaysia looks to be the same shit I grew up with. Here's to another generation of Malaysians having to send their kids to uni overseas in 2030-2050 because the education quality and reputation is still in the sewers.
  3. Food in Malaysia (KL area at least... but we're comparing big city-country island to big city so it's fair anyway) has never been cheaper dollar-for-dollar compared to Singapore, ever. It's always been roughly half in Singapore since the 90s (at the time following the 2.2 currency exchange closely) and still is about half the number these days (so Singapore has become more expensive since it costs more after exchange now, a lot of companies like Apple have also marked Singapore for 'developed country' pricing so this shouldn't come as a surprise)
    1. I've attached example menus from McDonalds in SG vs MY where a McChicken costs 5.50 SGD vs 8.95 MYR for a meal in 2017/18. I hate Mcdonalds comparisons because it reminds me of how retarded locals in MY/SG ask "how much big mac in US/Germany ah?" and proceed to assume the entire cost of living of EVERYTHING in that country based on this one price... however I can't be assed to copy and paste tons of menu screenshots so you can go look them up yourself.
    2. Chicken rice in suburbs around KL is 7-9 MYR these days while in Singapore it's 4-6 SGD.
    3. Nice sitdown restaurant like Din Tai Fung cost 14-23 MYR vs 9-12 SGD for chicken dumplings, rice with egg or meat costs 20-37 MYR vs 9-14 SGD
  4. The problem with the above, as well as other costs of living, is the salary numbers in Malaysia have not scaled to rising cost of living. This is particularly bad for electronics and imported goods which follow exchange rate, so the ratios are even worse. Like a pair of headphones that costs 300 MYR would only cost 100 SGD in Singapore.
  5. Malaysian salaries also tend to follow Singapore dollar-for-dollar. A fresh grad gets 3-4k MYR in Malaysia while the same fresh grad would get 3-4k SGD. This remains mostly true through career progression. A 30-something year old manager with quite some experience might be earning 10-12k MYR in Malaysia but would get paid 8-10k SGD in Singapore. Singapore has lower taxes on top of that (though both MY and SG have very low taxes versus Western countries)
  6. A 2 bedroom condo in suburban KL also costs around 1 million MYR. And home loans in Malaysia charge 3-4% interest while in Singapore it's closer to 1.2-1.5%.
  7. If we're talking about working in Singapore then retiring in Malaysia, that would make much more sense, but there is no way in hell one will get a better life working in Malaysia.
On top of all of that,because Singapore is classified as a "first world country":
  1. More MNCs and companies choose to place their HQ in Singapore so more job opportunities, better chances for career and salary growth
  2. More companies will ship their stuff to Singapore, more options for shopping high quality goods (there are more than a few websites which completely omit Malaysia from their shipping lists)
  3. Less hassle when you travel because Singaporean passports can be used at European and American immigration self-service autogates while Malaysians have to queue up for ages with the rest of the dirty immigrants. Also less potential for asshole immigration officer encounter since you're using autogate and Singapore doesn't have the "muslim majority" reputation attached to its name.
Dating was also pretty fucking hard for me in the US, but I can accept this because I was a chubby kid who dressed and looked like shit (I've since gotten a proper hairstyle, got more stylish glasses, done lasik, etc). People were much more approachable and friendly (also no language barrier) so I suspect while I still would have had a hard time overall, it would have been easier than Germany. I went to Germany when I was in the best shape of my life and got 0 matches/dates in the first 2 years. Also of the 3 dates I got in Germany, 2 of them were Asian girls, 1 was an American white girl (would have never worked since she was much older than me, visiting from the US office and not my type).
 

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nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
Born and raised in Malaysia, lived in several countries in America/Europe. Now considering Singapore to live long term or the rest of my life.

My perspective is the root cause of many people wanting to emmigrate is money. There's property, romantic life, family drama, tons of reasons to escape and I've had many of them, but they all trace back to not having enough money and feeling you can't earn as much.
  • Hiring foreigners over locals for job/career and salary progression stuck - Can't earn enough money
  • Working a crappy job that has long hours/toxic - Don't have enough money
    Otherwise can quit at will and look for a better job.
  • Property too expensive - Don't have enough money
  • Poor romantic prospects - Don't have enough money
    You can't buy true love but fact is having money can make you a far more interesting person. Poor person ain't going to go sailing or skydiving or frequent travels across multiple countries. "Poor" is not necessarily financially speaking, but could also mean working a crap job that doesn't allow you to take leave, for example.
  • Escape family drama - Don't have enough money
    Otherwise can move out to own place, even if it's down the street.
  • Don't like local education system - Don't have enough money
    Otherwise can send kids overseas to be educated. Don't even have to wait to uni level. Feel like quite a few people migrate to enjoy PR/local tuition rates for their kids.
People don't really care* about politics and other macro-level things (e.g. racism and discrimination) unless it affects or starts to affect them.

*Important to distinguish between actually caring vs pretending to care. E.g. many social media posts are just people virtue signalling and pretending to care just to look good to others. In reality, they may not actually care about whatever they're posting about.

It's not a guarantee that you'll be financially better off in a new country, even if as a Malaysian with exchange rate is on your side (though the odds are certainly in your favor) and even if you have solid and/or specialized career experience, and even if you go there with a PR already in hand (see asshole "Canadian experience" system where many Canadian jobs will only consider work experience in Canada as experience... truly fucked up). For Singaporeans, it's an even less clear choice.

Even if you did land a job and it's an upgrade in pay and work-life balance (I certainly did), you're likely paying for it in a less obvious way (if you migrated with someone else and don't feel it at all, your spouse or your kids might be taking the brunt of it). Most commonly, it's romantic life and career ceiling.

Despite all the claims of better equality and "caring" about others through movements like Black Lives Matter, Refugees Welcome "we welcome diversity", and seemingly giving off the impression by letting you in, Mr/Ms Immigrant, these two huge racism-centered problems have a high possibility of affecting you and/or your kids.

Speaking from personal experience and doing way too much research, years of it, getting into a relationship as a single Asian male in a western country is akin to striking the lottery. Unless you are absolutely OK with remaining single for the rest of your life and/or not having a family, this is a huge factor. At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, was it all worth the additional earnings?

At the beginning, in my early 20's, where my savings per month was as much as the entire monthly salary of a mid-level employee in Malaysia, the answer was a clear yes for me. But as the years passed and I had close to no luck dating, the answer became more muddy:
  • On one hand I was still saving more money than the average person my age and level in Malaysia and even Singapore.
  • On the other, the gap was much less than it was before (on average, entry-level/fresh grad pay in western countries is much more attractive, but salaries scale harder in MY/SG and can outstrip western salaries starting in your 30's) and I was still single with little chance of meeting a life partner in sight.
  • Somewhere in between, I tried out dating apps while vacationing in SEA and realized I wasn't the problem because I could land tons of local matches and dates without a problem. It really was racism (many people gaslight you to believing you need to make your profile or pictures better). This made me more depressed and more bitter as I lamented my time abroad even more.
  • The bitterness I had developed towards the unfairness of the country (Germany) had consumed me so much that even after I got into a relationship (Asian girl) over there, it was still there and IMO it was one of contributing factors to the relationship ending.
Unless you chose to move to a place where you already have relatives (good idea!), you're also at least 8 hours by flight away from any family or friends to support you, and you'll feel especially lonely at the early stages of having to setup not just your physical life (property, furnishing, schooling) but your social one as well. The process of making friends from scratch as an adult past your uni days really, really sucks - most people already have their own cliques or have families to tend to.

Obviously there's some truth to the pros of moving and working to a different country, but what I've learned is to get in, get the degree and job, let the "western experience" timer on the resume tick upwards, then get out.

I don't deny my life as a whole has been a lot better for most of my time living abroad (due to toxic parents, poor salaries in Malaysia, impossible to live alone and save up in MY/SG as a fresh graduate) but I also acknowledge the pros have faded and the world isn't as clear cut as "move to different country, get PR, byebye shit hole I'm happier abroad" as most Malaysian/Singaporean seem to think it is.
Born and raised in Malaysia.

Wants to migrate to Singapore.

Lol!

You and probably a million others. Granted you have all that foreign experience and probably 900,000 of you Malaysians dont.

Malaysians have been brainwashed to think of Singapore as paradise island.

There is no right or wrong answer and you dont need to justify your choices. Just go for it. There are many happy people in Singapore. Happiness is subjective and what makes someone happy is very variable.

I wish you all the best in Singapore.

I dont know if you have lived in SG before. It sounds like you have not since you hardly shared anything about actually living and working in sg. I do note your extensive experience in many countries across NA and Europe and SEA. Could it be a case where it's not the country but just your restless heart? I think where you settle so where you find your true love and soul mate for life. Nevertheless I would encourage you to seek SG citizenship and give up your Malaysian citizenship.

One thing I did not appreciate about SG is that it is a tiny island that calls itself a country. It is basically just a city. You will often read about things like this and that will "threaten SG survivability". "SG is vulnerable". All those insecurities that come when you are so small and have no local source of food, fuel and drinking water.

I suppose some people would be very happy staying on a super high tech small yacht. It can maneuver very easily. Sail out of storms. Party like no tomorrow. But really if there was a really big bad storm can the yacht capsize? Maybe. And there is always that fear. Sure you can use money to pile on the tech to avoid capsizing.

On the other hand boring huge oil tanker or aircraft carriers hardly ever worry about capsizing. Can it? Sure. But if they can capsize I think the yacht stands little chance.

I wish you all the best in Singapore.
 

nightsafari

Alfrescian
Loyal
I was born and raised in KL, am a bit of a spoiled child and so would never consider living in any other Malaysian city other than KL (and by "KL", I'm also including the surrounding suburbs). With that in mind, I completely disagree that Malaysia is better for Singapore for the typical middle to upper-middle class young person.
  1. It's dangerously confusing because they graduate without any debt because their parents paid for their whole education. Even with a very good career and salary in Malaysia, it's hard for them to replicate what their parents did for them for their own children. So their children might be forced to become a lowly local graduate.
  2. I don't see that changing (frowned upon local studies vs overseas prestige) because it has been many years since I finished high school and I'm already at "want to find someone to have kids with age" and the education system in Malaysia looks to be the same shit I grew up with. Here's to another generation of Malaysians having to send their kids to uni overseas in 2030-2050 because the education quality and reputation is still in the sewers.
  3. Food in Malaysia (KL area at least... but we're comparing big city-country island to big city so it's fair anyway) has never been cheaper dollar-for-dollar compared to Singapore, ever. It's always been roughly half in Singapore since the 90s (at the time following the 2.2 currency exchange closely) and still is about half the number these days (so Singapore has become more expensive since it costs more after exchange now, a lot of companies like Apple have also marked Singapore for 'developed country' pricing so this shouldn't come as a surprise)
    1. I've attached example menus from McDonalds in SG vs MY where a McChicken costs 5.50 SGD vs 8.95 MYR for a meal in 2017/18. I hate Mcdonalds comparisons because it reminds me of how retarded locals in MY/SG ask "how much big mac in US/Germany ah?" and proceed to assume the entire cost of living of EVERYTHING in that country based on this one price... however I can't be assed to copy and paste tons of menu screenshots so you can go look them up yourself.
    2. Chicken rice in suburbs around KL is 7-9 MYR these days while in Singapore it's 4-6 SGD.
    3. Nice sitdown restaurant like Din Tai Fung cost 14-23 MYR vs 9-12 SGD for chicken dumplings, rice with egg or meat costs 20-37 MYR vs 9-14 SGD
  4. The problem with the above, as well as other costs of living, is the salary numbers in Malaysia have not scaled to rising cost of living. This is particularly bad for electronics and imported goods which follow exchange rate, so the ratios are even worse. Like a pair of headphones that costs 300 MYR would only cost 100 SGD in Singapore.
  5. Malaysian salaries also tend to follow Singapore dollar-for-dollar. A fresh grad gets 3-4k MYR in Malaysia while the same fresh grad would get 3-4k SGD. This remains mostly true through career progression. A 30-something year old manager with quite some experience might be earning 10-12k MYR in Malaysia but would get paid 8-10k SGD in Singapore. Singapore has lower taxes on top of that (though both MY and SG have very low taxes versus Western countries)
  6. A 2 bedroom condo in suburban KL also costs around 1 million MYR. And home loans in Malaysia charge 3-4% interest while in Singapore it's closer to 1.2-1.5%.
  7. If we're talking about working in Singapore then retiring in Malaysia, that would make much more sense, but there is no way in hell one will get a better life working in Malaysia.
hmm... this is based purely on personal economics. If that's your priority then you've quite got it figured out. at least from a theoretical perspective. Be aware that there are lots of ways for indirect taxation to get you in Singapore. Insidious and barely noticeable things that do add up over time. So, you have to be judicious in your personal finance as I'm sure you are. Judging from your degrees and work experience I would guess you're cresting 30? Really a time to think about settling down. How much time do you wish to have outside of work commitments? I remember as a young and eager entrant to the Singapore rat race, I barely had any time for anything other than work. It's always hustle because everybody at the top is going to.

One another thing that's not immediately apparent, but some of the Singaporeans who've left have alluded to, is the hierarchical nature of Singapore. Dog eat dog. You just have to be the bigger dog. I don't know how you view your social ties, but in Singapore, they're treated differently from in Malaysia. A good number of people will hang around you if there's an advantage. If not, they can't be bothered to have a coffee with you. Money and status speak for everything. I think in the 20 odd years I've been there, I will count only 2 people as friends even though I could call on a fuckton of people. Both incidentally happen to be Malaysians. And oh, I came to Singapore early in primary school.

On top of all of that,because Singapore is classified as a "first world country":
  1. More MNCs and companies choose to place their HQ in Singapore so more job opportunities, better chances for career and salary growth
  2. More companies will ship their stuff to Singapore, more options for shopping high quality goods (there are more than a few websites which completely omit Malaysia from their shipping lists)
  3. Less hassle when you travel because Singaporean passports can be used at European and American immigration self-service autogates while Malaysians have to queue up for ages with the rest of the dirty immigrants. Also less potential for asshole immigration officer encounter since you're using autogate and Singapore doesn't have the "muslim majority" reputation attached to its name.
These are valid arguments and relate to how Singapore is seen in the world. Despite Malaysia being bigger, as a Chinese, an Indian or even as a Malay, the good ship Malaysia seems to be always barely staying on the right side of crisis. To be honest, a lot of Singaporeans complain about Malaysians coming into work and going back to retire. That actually makes a lot of sense. Best of both worlds as it were. Also be aware that if you have sons in Singapore, it's highly liklely they will get to go to national service. It catches a lot of people unawares.

Dating was also pretty fucking hard for me in the US, but I can accept this because I was a chubby kid who dressed and looked like shit (I've since gotten a proper hairstyle, got more stylish glasses, done lasik, etc). People were much more approachable and friendly (also no language barrier) so I suspect while I still would have had a hard time overall, it would have been easier than Germany. I went to Germany when I was in the best shape of my life and got 0 matches/dates in the first 2 years. Also of the 3 dates I got in Germany, 2 of them were Asian girls, 1 was an American white girl (would have never worked since she was much older than me, visiting from the US office and not my type).
I was in the chubby club too. But I can tell you from personal experience the 2 hardest places for me to get a date were in Singapore and London. Malaysia was a whole lot easier. I've not tried Germany though. Of course I'm a lot older and we didn't have to swipe anything then.
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
I'm both envious and happy for you! In your case, migrating was a good move if you went from barely able to save up in SG to early retirement within 3 years of moving to AUS, but realize that's a rare success and you should cherish it.

For every person like you, there's dozens of people who get duped into migrating for a better life only to realize it's worse. And the other problem is they don't want to admit they made a mistake so they tell everyone that it's all good with a smile on their face but they're secretly dying on the inside. You can tell because they have not much to show that migration was a wise choice and they struggle to tell you what's good about life beyond what you can read on the marketing pamphlet.

I do believe both Malaysia and Singapore have the unfortunate 'requirement' of going overseas for a few years to study and/or work in western countries first before you can come back and be a local success. This creates an artificial barrier only afforded by the upper-middle class and above. So the rich only get richer, the poor stay poor.

The only way you can study, work and live local and have a nice life is if you're from the upper class (The kind of people who only get a degree and job for the lulz but can otherwise live off their parents' wealth) or if you're one of those smart talker kuli-class fuckers who will bend over backwards and do anything for the rich people they kiss ass for.

In a way, living overseas does change you a little and you're forced into learning how to feed yourself, get a job, etc but there are people who go and come back as the same person, same habits and all. I've witnessed people I know go back with their US/UK/AUS degree and sometimes a little working experience rocket up the career ladder because while they start out the same as the local grads, promotions, raises, networking, etc all favor that overseas experience.

It's white-worship at its finest because many of those countries are literally a brand that doesn't mean much. But just like you don't get promoted solely based on hard work, the world is unfair and that's just the way it is.

I don't know about other people. But I am glad that back in 2004 I came to SBF.

From talking to people who had migrated I learned and absorbed all the NEGATIVE things and BARRIERS TO SUCCESS with migration. I was more interested in the why NOT TO MIGRATE.

Some of the things :

1) Will not recognize your qualifications. Prepare to start all over like an uneducated person (this is a problem for those who have egos and very good self esteem)
2) High labor cost. Forget having a maid. Lots of DIY.
3) Difference in climate. "Too cold" in Canada
4) Struggle financially due to poor job prospects
5) Loneliness. Generally far tougher for SINGLE people than families.
6) Racism. Discrimination.

I was also told migrating is always the toughest for the FIRST GENERATION. but the kids benefit later on.

So with these negative points in mind I discussed with my wife. Hence when we moved to Canada in 2010 we were totally prepared for the shit of migration.

hence we could enjoy the joys better because they came as surprises rather than expectations.

I wont go into my story cos you can find it here in the Canada thread.

But the idea was go to Canada. Find any work. Get some income going. Then look for better opportunities. Provide for the children. Survive the weather (which turned out to be bloody pleasant actually rather than what people said).

I think for you the big problem is LONELINESS. I can totally see myself saying the same things as you if I had moved over here as a single chinese male from Singapore.

So go where you think you have the best chance for finding a soul mate. If it is SG go for it. Once you have got married and started getting a family I am quite sure you will start to get restless once more. The key and this is a HUGE KEY.....is your spouse. Many migrating families fail because the spouses do not agree. In fact many never take off on migrating just because of that alone.
 

amransan

Alfrescian
Loyal
I was born and raised in KL, am a bit of a spoiled child and so would never consider living in any other Malaysian city other than KL (and by "KL", I'm also including the surrounding suburbs). With that in mind, I completely disagree that Malaysia is better for Singapore for the typical middle to upper-middle class young person.
  1. It's dangerously confusing because they graduate without any debt because their parents paid for their whole education. Even with a very good career and salary in Malaysia, it's hard for them to replicate what their parents did for them for their own children. So their children might be forced to become a lowly local graduate.
  2. I don't see that changing (frowned upon local studies vs overseas prestige) because it has been many years since I finished high school and I'm already at "want to find someone to have kids with age" and the education system in Malaysia looks to be the same shit I grew up with. Here's to another generation of Malaysians having to send their kids to uni overseas in 2030-2050 because the education quality and reputation is still in the sewers.
  3. Food in Malaysia (KL area at least... but we're comparing big city-country island to big city so it's fair anyway) has never been cheaper dollar-for-dollar compared to Singapore, ever. It's always been roughly half in Singapore since the 90s (at the time following the 2.2 currency exchange closely) and still is about half the number these days (so Singapore has become more expensive since it costs more after exchange now, a lot of companies like Apple have also marked Singapore for 'developed country' pricing so this shouldn't come as a surprise)
    1. I've attached example menus from McDonalds in SG vs MY where a McChicken costs 5.50 SGD vs 8.95 MYR for a meal in 2017/18. I hate Mcdonalds comparisons because it reminds me of how retarded locals in MY/SG ask "how much big mac in US/Germany ah?" and proceed to assume the entire cost of living of EVERYTHING in that country based on this one price... however I can't be assed to copy and paste tons of menu screenshots so you can go look them up yourself.
    2. Chicken rice in suburbs around KL is 7-9 MYR these days while in Singapore it's 4-6 SGD.
    3. Nice sitdown restaurant like Din Tai Fung cost 14-23 MYR vs 9-12 SGD for chicken dumplings, rice with egg or meat costs 20-37 MYR vs 9-14 SGD
  4. The problem with the above, as well as other costs of living, is the salary numbers in Malaysia have not scaled to rising cost of living. This is particularly bad for electronics and imported goods which follow exchange rate, so the ratios are even worse. Like a pair of headphones that costs 300 MYR would only cost 100 SGD in Singapore.
  5. Malaysian salaries also tend to follow Singapore dollar-for-dollar. A fresh grad gets 3-4k MYR in Malaysia while the same fresh grad would get 3-4k SGD. This remains mostly true through career progression. A 30-something year old manager with quite some experience might be earning 10-12k MYR in Malaysia but would get paid 8-10k SGD in Singapore. Singapore has lower taxes on top of that (though both MY and SG have very low taxes versus Western countries)
  6. A 2 bedroom condo in suburban KL also costs around 1 million MYR. And home loans in Malaysia charge 3-4% interest while in Singapore it's closer to 1.2-1.5%.
  7. If we're talking about working in Singapore then retiring in Malaysia, that would make much more sense, but there is no way in hell one will get a better life working in Malaysia.
On top of all of that,because Singapore is classified as a "first world country":
  1. More MNCs and companies choose to place their HQ in Singapore so more job opportunities, better chances for career and salary growth
  2. More companies will ship their stuff to Singapore, more options for shopping high quality goods (there are more than a few websites which completely omit Malaysia from their shipping lists)
  3. Less hassle when you travel because Singaporean passports can be used at European and American immigration self-service autogates while Malaysians have to queue up for ages with the rest of the dirty immigrants. Also less potential for asshole immigration officer encounter since you're using autogate and Singapore doesn't have the "muslim majority" reputation attached to its name.
Dating was also pretty fucking hard for me in the US, but I can accept this because I was a chubby kid who dressed and looked like shit (I've since gotten a proper hairstyle, got more stylish glasses, done lasik, etc). People were much more approachable and friendly (also no language barrier) so I suspect while I still would have had a hard time overall, it would have been easier than Germany. I went to Germany when I was in the best shape of my life and got 0 matches/dates in the first 2 years. Also of the 3 dates I got in Germany, 2 of them were Asian girls, 1 was an American white girl (would have never worked since she was much older than me, visiting from the US office and not my type).

Bro We bros here @nayr69sg and @nightsafari and including me. We have work experience many years in Sg just take as information if u plan to live in Sg at least u already know a little bit about the real Singapore.

it is good if u not sure of anything about Sg don’t be shy I can always ask us if we know the answer we gladly share with u.

I still remembered 12 years ago before I migrated to Australia i never been there and don’t have any friends living in Australia so to get information about Australia what i did was I just type a name and Australia In Facebook i can see many people who live in Australia and I massage them asking about Australia and many of them never reply me. There a guy replied me he said “ I wish I can tell u a little bit of Australia but I don’t know u” (And from their faces and name roughly I know they are sgrean)

because we don’t know anyone in Australia we are like a blind man everything we don’t know and my dear wife have to ask her colleagues how to do this and that like how to apply driving licence and many more other things.

I met a sgrean who lived there after a few months we meet up and he bring me to meet up other Malays living at his area and we chat they ask me why I live so ULU place so far away when I tell them because nobody told me that place is really ULU and when I ask people in Facebook none of them reply and got one reply me but the way she reply might as well don’t reply me and all of them laugh at me!!!
In my heart if only someone tell me or give me some info before I move to Australia it would be easier journeys for me.
This is what i experience bro.

so don’t be shy do ask questions
 

nightsafari

Alfrescian
Loyal
Bro We bros here @nayr69sg and @nightsafari and including me. We have work experience many years in Sg just take as information if u plan to live in Sg at least u already know a little bit about the real Singapore.

it is good if u not sure of anything about Sg don’t be shy I can always ask us if we know the answer we gladly share with u.

I still remembered 12 years ago before I migrated to Australia i never been there and don’t have any friends living in Australia so to get information about Australia what i did was I just type a name and Australia In Facebook i can see many people who live in Australia and I massage them asking about Australia and many of them never reply me. There a guy replied me he said “ I wish I can tell u a little bit of Australia but I don’t know u” (And from their faces and name roughly I know they are sgrean)

because we don’t know anyone in Australia we are like a blind man everything we don’t know and my dear wife have to ask her colleagues how to do this and that like how to apply driving licence and many more other things.

I met a sgrean who lived there after a few months we meet up and he bring me to meet up other Malays living at his area and we chat they ask me why I live so ULU place so far away when I tell them because nobody told me that place is really ULU and when I ask people in Facebook none of them reply and got one reply me but the way she reply might as well don’t reply me and all of them laugh at me!!!
In my heart if only someone tell me or give me some info before I move to Australia it would be easier journeys for me.
This is what i experience bro.

so don’t be shy do ask questions
bro you best lah! :thumbsup:
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
Maybe it is my character the kampong spirit in me always try to help others bro

I also feel that.

But I also find that often people do not want to listen.

So let them be lah. If they ownself gabra it is their problem lah. But if you try to help and they dont listen and gabra I feel very frustrated. So best not to get involved too much.

I will however always let them know that they can do this and that. Claim for this. Do that for benefit. etc. Just so in case when they gabra cos they don't follow they don't say "WHY YOU NEVER TELL ME?"
 

amransan

Alfrescian
Loyal
I also feel that.

But I also find that often people do not want to listen.

So let them be lah. If they ownself gabra it is their problem lah. But if you try to help and they dont listen and gabra I feel very frustrated. So best not to get involved too much.

I will however always let them know that they can do this and that. Claim for this. Do that for benefit. etc. Just so in case when they gabra cos they don't follow they don't say "WHY YOU NEVER TELL ME?"

Bro u migrated to Canada 2010?
I migrated to Australia also 2010
 

nightsafari

Alfrescian
Loyal
Maybe it is my character the kampong spirit in me always try to help others bro
for me, it is being raised in Malaysia with that kampong spirit even though no kampong. The whole country got kampong spirit .... :laugh:

that's why I'm grateful for my Malay and Indian friends too... :thumbsup:
 
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