AWARE Sex Guide Suspended

[londontrader]

i attack u

u think too highly of yourself.. u r nothing to me.

u doubt my sexuality?? u wanna ask your sister (in 20+ please n must be pleasant looking) stay with me 1 night or not huh... dun worry we will just chat the night away..

Sure you don't want her BROTHER instead?

 

[londontrader]

AWESOME! Now Christians are to be blamed for the world's problems..

No, just the irritating fundamentalist ones like yourself, closet homo boy
still praying for your soul

 

[londontrader]

dr thio has never been interested in true real activism period...i have known her and her entire family even including her daughter-in-law stef for donkey years...none of them are true real activists period...saying that i would not be surprised if her son shen has aspirations to become law soc president

I defer to your intimate knowledge of this. I can claim to meeting Dr Thio and husband only on a few occasions.

 

[londontrader]

Which means AWARE still supports gays!

AWARE supports gender equality for all (straight, homosexual, bisexual)
They even support equality for closet homosexuals like yourself

 

[londontrader]

Dear bellepepper02;

Thanks for an excellent expose of what went on during Josie's tenure at the head of AWARE. I heard some snippets myself but nothing as comprehensive as the information you gathered. I do know a fair bit about COOS and Derek Hong. You are quite right about their/his alignment with the Christian Right.

Cheers

 

[bellepepper02]

i stand corrected but i still get the impression that josie and her pussycats would have won on the 2nd but for their clandestine unethical religious fervour...what happened to the remaining 900 Aware members who did not turn up to vote on the 2nd (3,000 - 2,100 who voted)?

My guess is that the remaining 900 are Christians (possibly from COOS) who got frightened off by the National Council of Churches' statement , the pastor's sudden apology, and Minister's comment about Christians against Singapore, which appeared just before the EGM.

It was very clear during the EGM that the exco were sure they would win. The first indication they had that their numbers hadn't turned up was when the voting results were presented to them!

We voted that day at about 4 pm, and after that Josie and co's supporters left. They didn't wait to hear the results. Strange. Didn't they care about the issue and the results? Were they just voting because they had been instructed to do so? When the results were announced at about 8 pm, there were only two objections to our motion to declare the Josie exco had abdicated their position.

 

[londontrader]

That's why I call them voting fodder

 

[scroobal]

do you agree with balji that the PAPs would have directly intervened if dr thio did not come out in the open of her own accord (albeit probably flushed out)?

yes again...interesting to see li ann gone quiet all of a sudden...cat got her tongue perhaps?...wonder whether she has thrown her hat in for a second NMP term after this brouhaha

Thats the trouble with people with less than transparent agendas. Too much intrigue and no sincerity.

 

[scroobal]

Absolutely agree. No one should pass judgement as the science behind this is unclear. Lets not pretend that other preferences exist. Bring it out. Don't even say if it normal, abnromal or whatever. Highlight the views expressed by the wide spectrum of the community.

One point however that must came across clearly is that no one should be discriminated purely based on their sexual preference. That should be the fundamental issue.

Just wanted to offer an alternative perspective on this.

My take on this is that sex education should not be moralising or didactic but tell kids the facts. It should convey to students the whole spectrum of attitudes and emphasise that their own values and that of their parents, religion, etc should guide their action and decisions. It should not reflect only the perspective of the conservatives but also that of liberals. Liberal parents have rights too.

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[DrPanacea]

Haha. You are beginning to amuse me. Make my day!

You are so devoid of arguments that you even pick on my typo. I suppose you have completely run out of ideas in your hollow head.

btw way if you had been reading my other posts you would easily conclude, if your are smart enough, that I am no Pappie stooge.

I shall not waste anymore time on you. I need to go to the Istana for a meeting soon.

DrPanacea;

"Thanks to me you now admit and agree that zeroo used the word 'religion' as as a metaphor and not religion per se. I don't need anyone to educated me, PAP or any others."

I never said that it wasn't a metaphor. I did imply that it was a very SILLY metaphor. If you took your "educated" head out of your "uneducated" ass, you might understand that. I doubt anyone (PAP included) can educate some one who writes as badly as yourself ie.

-------------------------------------
I don't need anyone to EDUCATED me
---------------------------------------

"TSM and Josie did not push the religion onto others in the Aware issue. They were civic minded people wanting to protect their own and others' children from homosexuals."

A simple petition to the MOE would have sufficed
No need for all that drama unless they had more sinister motives

"That's why they are against the CSE program.
Show me where did they forced religion into the issue."

You can start with the revelation of that famous email by TSM and follow the trail................

"The old guards and their homosexuals supporters hooligan and gangster behaviour were the militants in the EGM. Never Josie's supporters."

Josie's supporters were pretty brain dead at the EGM
It seemed that they were only capable of casting a vote
Talk about busing in a truckload of VOTING FODDER

"I say again if you still don't get it. Josie and her team was voted in constitutionally, legally and civically."

It's called keeping to the letter of the law but breaking the SPIRIT of the law
That disgusting behaviour (by Josie's team) motivated many Christian women to vote for the old guard.

"Yes, LKY would very proud of me. Are you envious?"

You're proud of being associated with a despot?
You really are one of those anal retentive PAPies

"And what's wrong with having bus loads of supporters? Didn't you see this in GEs too? Wake up Rip Van Winkle!"

Busing in voting fodder = common tactic used in "Steeplejacking"
If you saw "busing" during GEs, it's referred to as "Electoral Fraud"

"Are you upset that the MOE had suspended the CSE program to prevent more homosexuals coming to join the likes of you?"

You like to brand people opposed to your stance as homosexuals. This suggests that you are likely an angry CLOSET HOMOSEXUAL, who blames other homosexuals for your sorry state in life. It's very bad for your mental health! I strongly urge you to stop pretending to be a straight gay basher and accept what nature intended for you.

BTW, I'm not a homosexual like yourself, so stop the flirting!

As for MOE's actions, I'm not surprised that they chose the safe conservative route in a country as socially conservative as Singapore.

"TSM and Josie and her team has lost the battle, but they WON the war."

Imagine how they could have won the battle and the war if they had chosen the honest route instead of deceit!

 

[SneeringTree]

Haha. You are beginning to amuse me. Make my day!

You are so devoid of arguments that you even pick on my typo. I suppose you have completely run out of ideas in your hollow head.

btw way if you had been reading my other posts you would easily conclude, if your are smart enough, that I am no Pappie stooge.

I shall not waste anymore time on you. I need to go to the Istana for a meeting soon.

You are obviously the one devoid of argument and when faced with evidence choose to ignore them. But it's OK, many people are unable to admit that they are wrong.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

ok...but from what i saw from the vid clips...to be fair to josie and her pussycats it did not appear that they weren cut much slack at all to make their stand on the 2nd...i understand and appreciate why...but nonetheless it appears they were not given a totally fair chance to make their stand...

As far as I recall, only one woman in the lot had ever done community work. They flashed their CVs at the EGM, and I remember another woman made that same observation.

At the EGM, they said nothing they hadn't said before to the press about their plans. This was surprising because we thought they might have worked on offering some detail. They did try to answer some of the accusations levied at them, but all they showed was that they lacked the language and familiarity with women's issues. In fact one woman actually told them they should improve their knowledge of feminism as well as their rhetoric and grammar! .

thanks alot for the clarification...yes it appears that Claire Chiang is now very much like say Fang Ai Lian , Laura Hwang and jennie chua...

Claire Chaing didn't attend the EGM. I don't know much about her, just that she's doing a lot of work with govt organisations. And once she does that, she can't afford to be seen out with the NGOs. Claire made a lot of show but really Kanwaljit Soin was the one who made an impact as NMP. I admire her hair and clothes more than anything else. Haha! Seems like she disappeared from view after 2001. In 2005, she was president of a business grouping called Compact for Corporate Social Responsibility. Maybe she still works in that area.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

what to do?...ST's editorial on this issue is perhaps some food for thought...

Don’t sacrifice sex education
The Straits Times Page A18, 8 May 2009
Editorial

...The ministry made specific mention of the Aware instructor's guide, but gave no details. There are references in it, about anal sex for example, which are plainly out of line, whatever the context and qualifications made. But a distinction should be made: the offending reference is for the guidance of instructors training to run school workshops, not part of the message imparted. At any rate, unconventional sexual orientations form a small portion of sexuality education taught to secondary students. But it is proper for the ministry to reassure alarmed parents that their children are not being taught wicked things. Aware itself has said it would consider amendments. It could start by deleting permissive passages and inferences in the instructor's manual.

But suspension of external programmes for review is one thing. Total rejection is another. It is to be hoped the ministry will continue to draw on the support of outside organisations, such as Aware and the Singapore Planned Parenthood Association, in expanding the scope of sexual education. These organisations offer perspectives, expertise even, which teachers who manage the core curriculum of sex education will find useful. The ministry would now be more thorough in choosing and auditing programmes offered by outside parties, presumably on all matters and not only human sexuality. That should suffice.

It would be a huge setback to teenagers’ personal development if sex education, per se, were to be pared back or sanitised because parents do not want their children to be given the ‘wrong message’. This is not a debate about liberal versus conservative. That is a digression. At issue is how best to guide a teenager through a delicate growing phase...

But isn't it such a hypocrisy, crying foul about AWARE's sex ed programme, and then our adults are forever having extra-marital affairs, going on sex tours, etc. And we like watching porn!

.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

did the schools do their part by handing out say a prelim worksheet/note for the parents' perusal beforehand to sign off?...perhaps therein lies part of the problem?

There is such an opt out form. There always was for the AWARE programme.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Shen use to be quite arrogant cocky and proud from young...quite the stud with the gals as well...i use to play tennis with him...he is a good tennis player, use to fancy himself as the local michael chang at one time...jokes aside, there is no doubt that like his mum and sister when it comes to the law he is quite top notch, although perhaps not as academically bright as Li Ann and his mum...on the religion issue i am not quite sure as he has always been wary of my 'devil's horns':p...he has one kid a boy who is dr thio's only grandchild as it now stands...no guessing what he is being 'fed' by grandpa and grandma who are just next door

you know about Li Ann...it is a pity about her apparent religious fundamentalism and homophobia because she is not a bad egg and very much the liberal on most other matters...also a razor sharp mind...oh well what to do...

Is the son from the same church? I hope not. Is he demented too?

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

not that intimate lah...if so i would probably be telling you to shut up and sit down by now...it is just that s'pore is a small place, or use to be before the foreign trash invasion from the 90s onwards

I defer to your intimate knowledge of this. I can claim to meeting Dr Thio and husband only on a few occasions.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

appreciate the insight

My guess is that the remaining 900 are Christians (possibly from COOS) who got frightened off by the National Council of Churches' statement , the pastor's sudden apology, and Minister's comment about Christians against Singapore, which appeared just before the EGM.

It was very clear during the EGM that the exco were sure they would win. The first indication they had that their numbers hadn't turned up was when the voting results were presented to them!

We voted that day at about 4 pm, and after that Josie and co's supporters left. They didn't wait to hear the results. Strange. Didn't they care about the issue and the results? Were they just voting because they had been instructed to do so? When the results were announced at about 8 pm, there were only two objections to our motion to declare the Josie exco had abdicated their position.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

sorry Bro, did not catch your reply to this part?...

do you agree with balji that the PAPs would have directly intervened if dr thio did not come out in the open of her own accord (albeit probably flushed out)?

Thats the trouble with people with less than transparent agendas. Too much intrigue and no sincerity.

 

[bellepepper02]

ok...but from what i saw from the vid clips...to be fair to josie and her pussycats it did not appear that they weren cut much slack at all to make their stand on the 2nd...i understand and appreciate why...but nonetheless it appears they were not given a totally fair chance to make their stand...

Actually, they had the floor all the time. They were in charge and controlling who spoke and when. Well, they tried to, anyway. They gave the sound men instructions to shut off the mikes until they gave the go-ahead. The truth is that they had plenty of opportunity to explain themselves, but they lacked the ability to do so. Josie and Maureen took the mike several times--and said nothing that was even half-intelligent. They didn't seem to realise that they had to come intellectually prepared for a debate. They degenerated into saying "Shut up and sit down" because they had nothing more intelligent to say.

This is like saying that the better debating team never gave the losers a chance. The losers lost because of their inferior ability.

 

[bellepepper02]

did the schools do their part by handing out say a prelim worksheet/note for the parents' perusal beforehand to sign off?...perhaps therein lies part of the problem?

Yes, I agree. Schools need to take responsibility too.