Anna

[wrcboi]

Thanks...that's what MHA and HDB believe because they think the laws say so.

Do the laws contravene the Constitution?

Even if it is lawful for MHA and HDB to revoke a singaporean's citizenship, can the pap bear the political cost? will the pap sacrifice some singaporeans to keep many in line?

I dont think it is a straight forward case. It's a delicate issue...even if MHA and HDB are legally empowered to revoke citizenships, do they really want to stick with such outdated policies or would the pap seek to embrace Singaporeans who seek to be a global citizen?

Should the pap make a virtue out of necessity in this changing world rather than to stick to obsolete policies.

the problem is no one wants to destroy their million dollar noodle plate...by suggesting, researching, implementing and pushing for a change......

 

[TracyTan866]

the problem is no one wants to destroy their million dollar noodle plate...by suggesting, researching, implementing and pushing for a change......

I agree with you. we have all yes-men in the pap now who dont want to rock the boat. I had high hopes when HSK, CCS and TCJ came onboard. But the latest comments by TCJ showed that he is another running dog. Time to change them at GE 2016?

 

[valiant20]

Thanks...that's what MHA and HDB believe because they think the laws say so.

Do the laws contravene the Constitution?

Even if it is lawful for MHA and HDB to revoke a singaporean's citizenship, can the pap bear the political cost? will the pap sacrifice some singaporeans to keep many in line?

I dont think it is a straight forward case. It's a delicate issue...even if MHA and HDB are legally empowered to revoke citizenships, do they really want to stick with such outdated policies or would the pap seek to embrace Singaporeans who seek to be a global citizen?

Should the pap make a virtue out of necessity in this changing world rather than to stick to obsolete policies.

Let's hope the government moves forward with this outdated "No Dual Citizenship" policy, or just even modify its exclusivity only to those born in Singapore?

I'm speculating approximately 10% of Singaporeans will be affected by whatever decisions ICA & HDB decides to make. That's too huge a number to be ignored..

 

[wrcboi]

I agree with you. we have all yes-men in the pap now who dont want to rock the boat. I had high hopes when HSK, CCS and TCJ came onboard. But the latest comments by TCJ showed that he is another running dog. Time to change them at GE 2016?

Well...that depends on the daft sinkies....but seems that every election just wayang and say sorry will work wonders.....

 

[TracyTan866]

Let's hope the government moves forward with this outdated "No Dual Citizenship" policy, or just even modify its exclusivity only to those born in Singapore?

I'm speculating approximately 10% of Singaporeans will be affected by whatever decisions ICA & HDB decides to make. That's too huge a number to be ignored..

I agree with you.

Being borned in Singapore shd come with clear privileges. I wonder what the Constitution say abt this?

According to Daphne (she is a lawyer) it is her constitutionally birthright!

any legal eagle care to advise?

 

[Fook Seng]

My guess is some idiot at ICA made the mistake the first time by renewing her passport when they should not have & when she renewed the second time, they just OK'd it without checking, the third time the mistake was spotted or maybe the counter staff were more on the ball & noticed she had filled in "Yes" to having dual citizenship. The ICA will now have to figure a way out for them as they should not have renewed her passport in the first & second time. No doubt this will be dealt with on an individual case basis & they are keen to keep it quiet.

I don't think there is any big problem to admit there was a first and a second mistake on the renewal, unless some officials want to cover their mistakes in which case they should be penalised not for the mistakes but covering them up.

 

[wrcboi]

Let's hope the government moves forward with this outdated "No Dual Citizenship" policy, or just even modify its exclusivity only to those born in Singapore?

I'm speculating approximately 10% of Singaporeans will be affected by whatever decisions ICA & HDB decides to make. That's too huge a number to be ignored..

not to mention the 10% how many percent of it will be the civil servants or govt officials??

 

[TracyTan866]

Well...that depends on the daft sinkies....but seems that every election just wayang and say sorry will work wonders.....

sometimes we cant blame the average singaporean ...they have been brainwashed by MSM and the pap.

I am surprised that despite the pap's control over the media and propaganda, they got only 60% in GE 2011. Saddam Hussein got more than 90% of the popular votes.

So there is hope for SG that 40% singaporeans saw through the pap's propaganda. that's enough for me to celebrate.

 

[TracyTan866]

I don't think there is any big problem to admit there was a first and a second mistake on the renewal, unless some officials want to cover their mistakes in which case they should be penalised not for the mistakes but covering them up.

Daphne is only one case..I think there must be countless singaporeans who are in the same situation. Dual citizenship is a hot potato which the pap cant choose to ignore

 

[TracyTan866]

I don't think there is any big problem to admit there was a first and a second mistake on the renewal, unless some officials want to cover their mistakes in which case they should be penalised not for the mistakes but covering them up.

I am glad that Daphne chooses to highlight this issue to force MHA/ICA to decide and not to sweep it under the carpet.

 

[TracyTan866]

not to mention the 10% how many percent of it will be the civil servants or govt officials??

truly, it is an issue to be decided carefully

 

[roadrunner]

Scroobal's thread did mention ICA has the right to revoke SG citizenship (just saw it, by Scroobal himself).. too many pages to get the link........ That might result in a lot of unhappiness online though. Time for National Conversation on dual citizenship

if that is what the law says than it is true, they have the right to revoke, the question is will they do it. The gahmen has been very quiet on Dual Citizenship for a very, very long time, maybe they fear that pushing the issue will lead to a "brain drain" so to speak. Perhaps it's better to "let sleeping dogs lie" for those who are concerned.

There was another "interesting" incident in Australia quite a few years ago, a minister was meeting with a group of Singaporean graduates there & someone raised the question of dual citizenship & the minister had to be tackful in is reply but i think what he said was something like.. if you keep quiet about it & not make an issue over it/your dual citizenship, ICA will not question you on it etc.

 

[Fook Seng]

Do the laws contravene the Constitution?

Even if it is lawful for MHA and HDB to revoke a singaporean's citizenship, can the pap bear the political cost? will the pap sacrifice some singaporeans to keep many in line.

I don't think the Constitution ever mention that citizenship is permanent and indefeasible. Law is law and political consideration is another thing altogether. Don't confuse the two. If the govt wants to change the law because it is the politically right thing, it will still have to convince the people that the change is for the majority good and that it does not give an undue advantage to a privileged few who can take advantage of it, leaving others the worse for it.

I don't think the law should change because it benefits me, a unique person. It would defeat the whole concept of living in a society. Might as well fall back on the law of the jungle.

 

[valiant20]

I am guessing.. the supervisor & staff who attended to your friend Daphne.. might be getting grilled like hot potatos at the moment about this issue.. they should have just gone ahead and approved.. thus no big hoo-haa over the issue..

 

[TracyTan866]

if that is what the law says than it is true, they have the right to revoke, the question is will they do it. The gahmen has been very quiet on Dual Citizenship for a very, very long time, maybe they fear that pushing the issue will lead to a "brain drain" so to speak. Perhaps it's better to "let sleeping dogs lie" for those who are concerned.

There was another "interesting" incident in Australia quite a few years ago, a minister was meeting with a group of Singaporean graduates there & someone raised the question of dual citizenship & the minister had to be tackful in is reply but i think what he said was something like.. if you keep quiet about it & not make an issue over it/your dual citizenship, ICA will not question you on it etc.

The pap doesnt have the courage to tackle the issue wisely. More and more Singaporeans like Daphne are speaking up and challenging the pap to make a courageous decision.

I suspect the pap will back down and allow dual citizenship like what the australian and many govts do.

 

[TracyTan866]

I am guessing.. the supervisor & staff who attended to your friend Daphne.. might be getting grilled like hot potatos at the moment about this issue.. they should have just gone ahead and approved.. thus no big hoo-haa over the issue..

I think you are right.

The staff was probably new and just followed the book. The supervisor probably had no choice since his new staff was not tactful and opened her mouth. He had to agree with the staff and told Daphne what the book says. Now the buck stops at TCH's desk.

Revoking Daphne's SG citizenship may be the legal right but is it Constitutionally and morally right. But TCH has to count the costs. Daphne is waiting

 

[roadrunner]

Daphne is only one case..I think there must be countless singaporeans who are in the same situation. Dual citizenship is a hot potato which the pap cant choose to ignore

well let's put it this way, Dual Citizenship means they can still vote in GE, if forced to give up Singapore citizenship, that's 10% less voting for them or 10% less voters to be fair.

 

[TracyTan866]

I don't think the Constitution ever mention that citizenship is permanent and indefeasible. Law is law and political consideration is another thing altogether. Don't confuse the two. If the govt wants to change the law because it is the politically right thing, it will still have to convince the people that the change is for the majority good and that it does not give an undue advantage to a privileged few who can take advantage of it, leaving others the worse for it.

I don't think the law should change because it benefits me, a unique person. It would defeat the whole concept of living in a society. Might as well fall back on the law of the jungle.

I agree with you.

But a law should not contradict the Constitution. Various regulations have been formulated at many Ministries which spell out the process and procedures to take when making a decision. But some of these well intended regulations were not tightly thought through and do contradict higher level orders.

 

[TracyTan866]

well let's put it this way, Dual Citizenship means they can still vote in GE, if forced to give up Singapore citizenship, that's 10% less voting for them or 10% less voters to be fair.

numerically correct.

But if Daphne's citizenship is revoked, much ill will would have been generated. The pap will get away with Daphne's anti pap vote. But it will provoke much anger and may arouse many of her family and friends to vote against the pap.

so it's not a straight forward case

 

[roadrunner]

Thought of the month: When PAP loses control of the government, and government policies turn more favourable, will Singaporeans stop migrating overseas? Will overseas Singaporeans return? Or is Singapore beyond "repair"....

It's not that simple, the world is now a smaller place & we have global economies which means people travel a lot more & have more business dealings outside of their country of birth. Having a internationally recognised qualification or a professional vocation use to guanrantee an overseas work posting or the ability to look for work or set up business outside of Singapore but this is not true anymore, these days you also need long term visas, PR & citizenship to get you that job or business outside of Singapore, just like the FTs & PRs coming into Singapore, it's a 2 way traffic, the tide flows in & flows out, the world is changing & Singapore needs to change with it