GMS Selling Home To Contest Election 吴明盛破釜沉舟背水一战

[Chau Ve Nist]

Fair enough. The issue then is why then do you think we should question only the opposition and not the PAP, since both sides are greedy? Maybe you did and I didn't spot, but up till now I am under the impression that you are only questioning the opposition and not the PAP (FYI I have blasted the PAP as well as NSP's GMS and when I blasted GMS it was more credible and less below the belt).

That is important in lieu of the fact that right now, why only is the PAP greedy and allowed to satisfy their greed.

I am hardly a fan of the PAP. I can't also be especially when the Sherlock Holmes wannabes in this forum have "identified" me first as CSJ and now as GN. This based on GMS' baseless claims that I am in the US and that I am a lawyer and that I am not ethnic Chinese since I can't read or understand Chinese.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Chau

Thats him personally but he is helping fund the party as stated so the number goes up especially if the party cross subsidizses less well of candidates. For me as a businessman funding politics is a bad idea, if I really wanted to fund politics I would fund the PAP better returns on my money



Locke

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

You don't have to put my remarks to him or his to mine. The issue I raised about whether a businessman should put money in CPF OA and you said yes if he wants to be honest. Now, what has a choice of putting money or not got to do with honesty? You have since given another lame explanation but that is something else. But to glare the word "honest", to me, is clearly intentional.

The issue you raised was centred around GMS. You may want to check back on what you wrote.

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

It's rather strange - GMS is criticised for making a lot of money from sales of his flat, and also criticised for making little money from sales of his flat, and criticised for themselves wrongly assuming that the proceeds is little or a lot.

Perhaps if his critics can get their act together and unite under a non-self-contradictory platform, they might be able to bring him down better and faster.

You are the one who need to get your act together. You have lost track of what this issue is about and how it has come about.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Chau / The Brave One

They have won, proven that they can win, My view is simple, politics is brutal, never permanent, if they can't hack it in some form eventually they lose as proven by Dr Chee, Ling, Cheo, Go back USA lan lan Nair.

If history had rewritten itself, and the SDP had grown from strength to strength with chee instead of from weakness to weakness well CST and LTK would have been rendered politically ineffective impotent and irrelevant.

Get a better bunch of people who can do better at the pot of gold at the end of the political end of the rainbow is the solution. NOT complain incessantly about the people trying to get there or who are already there like GO back USA lan lan NAIR who complains incessantly about politics in which he has no stake in



Locke

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

Actually the issue is indeed you, and interestingly "high emotive" manner that you are "not being able to understand the obvious that money is required for elections."

Whether fluke, contrived / staged or by accident - the announcement by Ramseth has the desired impact or intended impact. That's pretty much common sense. I am sure you are not naive or gullible enough to be believe that PAP got into power or retains its hegemony because it was "assumed to be honest".

Lets not be childish or immature and continue to split hairs.

Despite to the contrary or the attempt to project a cool and collected image by using words and terms to suggest that the other part is highly emotive, you seem be overly upset that peasants or honest Singaporeans are going to be severely disadvantaged or screwed by GMS and Ramseth.

Please don't me tell you are one those half-wits who grew up thinking the old man raised his family in Oxley and not at the Istana.

Now you know why politicians including Chee, Chiam and PAP with the exception of GY does not bother to engage the general public. There will always be detractors who feel that they must say something contrary just to be appear intelligent and someone of standing is engaged with them.

In gist, any normal politician will milk the campaign in anyway he can. Here is another tidbit - the name Harry was dropped for what purpose? His wife and the entire first cabinet and his friends call him by what name even today. If you have the time, take your thumb out and post something that contributes positively to the campaign. You writing off GMS completely is not going to make anyone lose any sleep. You are suggested that the other party is highly emotive and you are cool certainly calls for a chuckle and maybe a snigger.

ps. left you something to nitpick - most of the entire cabinet are dead, so might not be able to call him anything. You might want assume that I am "dishonest" for not revealing that most of them are dead and start an engagement. By the way, I am expecting short terse but witty retort of some sort to give the impression of suave and intelligent. Don't let me down.

Do you have a point to make? It may seem clever and witty to your little fan club for you to spout this inconsequential rubbish or to pre-empt a "witty retort" from me just so you can say, "I told you so". But it adds nothing to what is being discussed.

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

LOL ! At last, the moment I have been waiting for .............

The crutch you were waiting for, you mean. Amongst the forummers, you are one of the most fucking spineless, useless and hopeless as far as I can tell. You have to constantly wait and see where the wind is blowing and what everyone's responses are before jumping in and summarising and regurgitating the majority's response as your "independent" and "personal" opinion on an issue.

Better for you to stick to your favourite little bitchy and faggoty gossipings about Sumiko Tan where you have shown you can demonstrate some independent thoughts and opinions about whether she is ugly, whether her breast is big, her lipstick is of the right shade, etc.

Infrequent though his postings may be these days, the ex-moderator can still give the 'deserving' forummers a piece of his mind..

That meaningless drivel he posted impressed you??? Will you swoon when he throws a smile in your direction? Or perhaps go on your knees when he waltzes pass you?

Jesus. I have never seen such ingratiation and obsequious behaviour amongst forummers since scs days. Makes me cringe and my hair stand on end.

 

[elephanto]

The crutch you were waiting for....Makes me cringe and my hair stand on end.

finished ? can wipe that froth from your lips after your epileptic fit ?
From your mess of verbosity & bombastic rants, it is clear a raw nerve of yours have been rattled...

Since the last time you started a thread imploring sam to do away with infractions & recounting your cowardly encounter with kingrant, I have noticed your narcissitic nature - snooty pseudo intellect who think you have an original thought that is earth-shattering .....

Puke on .... every post of yours against various individuals simply reveal your psychotic mania of wanting to be one against the world .....

 

[yellow_people]

You are the one who need to get your act together. You have lost track of what this issue is about and how it has come about.

I would just ignore this chap if I were you. He is a dishonest fella that has lost it and now resorting to making it personal. The knuckle-head P does not even bother to read what he has written before posting.

 

[yellow_people]

Do you have a point to make? It may seem clever and witty to your little fan club for you to spout this inconsequential rubbish or to pre-empt a "witty retort" from me just so you can say, "I told you so". But it adds nothing to what is being discussed.

Forget it CVN. The dude has no taste and is beneath contempt. He attempted to expose the NRIC of a forummer in the old sammyboy forum and got properly skewered.

When the chap has lost it he will come here with his buddy P and they will start talking to each other and dishing out made up stories and lies. A tag team of sorts. And they are not about the topic mind you.

That was how my signature came about. None of these bozos will answer the most basic of questions and I have asked quite a few. No replies except personal attacks.

 

[yellow_people]

Agree. But if you look at the PEP politicians that we have, growth hardly seems on their mind. CST since 1984, 26 years. LTK since 1991, 19 years. What exactly have they grown besides their personal bank accounts growing a little fatter from the few millions they have made in MP allowances after a combined 45 years in politics?

To be fair to them, I believe they came into opposition politics driven by their beliefs and idealism. But the comfortable life from a very comfortable MP income (and future pension) that many complain have afflicted PAP MPs, have, if we want to be honest, struck them too and have reduced them to PEP politicians. How different are these PEP politicians from the PAP's Tan Cheng Bock or Tan Soo Khoon? I will say, they are in fact worse.

Sorry to say this but GMS, like Steve Chia before him, strikes me as a tikam-tikam one dimensional politician. Win I stay. Lose and I move to Hongkong. Frankly, I can't see him being anything but a PEP politician, i.e if he can actually win a seat in the first place.

This is the problem with the "gentleman" politics that PAP and LKY in particular would like to see as alternative voices. It so happens both Scroobal and P subscribe to it as well. I must admit though, for the life of me I can't imagine why they would want to throw in their lot with a political clown like GMS. Even for "gentleman" politics, PAP-style, GMS gives it a very bad name.

A quarter century of "gentleman" politics and we are still stuck in square one. Probably worse off. With fragmented opposition parties and a once thriving, multi-cultural party, the WP has been reduced to a pale shadow of its former self. Is that what is defined as progress? WP is no better than it was before with a solitary elected member in parliament after all these years.

The 17k pay-check does work magic on ideology I guess. Even once outspoken critics of the PAP V Balakrishnan and W Woon have succumbed to the almighty $.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Yellow

They have won, proven that they can win, My view is simple, politics is brutal, never permanent, if they can't hack it in some form eventually they lose as proven by Dr Chee, Ling, Cheo, Go back USA lan lan Nair.

If history had rewritten itself, and the SDP had grown from strength to strength with chee instead of from weakness to weakness well CST and LTK would have been rendered politically ineffective impotent and irrelevant.

Get a better bunch of people who can do better at the pot of gold at the end of the political end of the rainbow is the solution. NOT complain incessantly about the people trying to get there or who are already there like GO back USA lan lan NAIR who complains incessantly about politics in which he has no stake in the game.

They might not be your cup of tea but they are there and they have survived, so either a better bunch of people come in and render them politically irrelevant or they prove that their way of politics work best.



Locke
Locke

 

[yellow_people]

Dear Yellow

They have won, proven that they can win, My view is simple, politics is brutal, never permanent, if they can't hack it in some form eventually they lose as proven by Dr Chee, Ling, Cheo, Go back USA lan lan Nair.

If history had rewritten itself, and the SDP had grown from strength to strength with chee instead of from weakness to weakness well CST and LTK would have been rendered politically ineffective impotent and irrelevant.

Get a better bunch of people who can do better at the pot of gold at the end of the political end of the rainbow is the solution. NOT complain incessantly about the people trying to get there or who are already there like GO back USA lan lan NAIR who complains incessantly about politics in which he has no stake in the game.

They might not be your cup of tea but they are there and they have survived, so either a better bunch of people come in and render them politically irrelevant or they prove that their way of politics work best.



Locke
Locke

Like Devan Nair said, in the ultimate analysis the people will have to learn life's basic lessons the hard way. Only then will a truly free SG emerge from the ashes.

Till then we will have to put up with pretenders I guess.

 

[Sideswipe]

If history had rewritten itself, and the SDP had grown from strength to strength with chee instead of from weakness to weakness well CST and LTK would have been rendered politically ineffective impotent and irrelevant.

and if CST remain in charge of SDP, would SDP grown stronger like increase their seats or we see today SDP in the form of today SPP, with Chiam as the sole MP. I really think it's more the latter.

Ling and Cheo were MPs for 6 years after 91, if they were any good, they would retain their seats in 97. I blame the loss of those 2 seats solely on those two than Chee.

 

[Perspective]

I assume a certain intelligence and knowledge amongst posters and can't be elaborating everything. I used the word honest and stated that you are lucky I work on the assumption he is honest. You can take it to mean what you want to take it to mean. No skin off my nose.

*This is a Hobson's trap argument.* If he gained cash by selling his flat, it insinuates he is dishonest for not putting money in CPF. If he did not gain much cash as he needed to put money back in CPF, he is again dishonest for painting the picture that he is gaining a lot of cash. Tails lose, heads lose. I think after this is laid bare people would know what argument you're trying to achieve.

I assume nothing. I said "some" and this has happened. That information is publicly available.

Thanks for laying it as "some". Since it is "some" and not "all" or "most", the "most" do not and you imply they are dishonest, in your own position. Perhaps you can tell everyone that you think most businessmen in Singapore are dishonest, to save everyone time.

As I said, the issue of "expensive" is subjective. $30-$40K may seem like a lot of money to someone who is young and who has just entered the workforce. But after 20-25 years of being in business, I expect a person to have some sort of personal savings. That $40K can be saved if you set aside just slightly over $150/month for 20 years.

First of all, GMS never said that selling his flat will give all the expenses he needed. Perhaps his savings fell short, perhaps he needs money for another business venture. There are many possibilities. There are many ways to spend an election expense. Either give every candidate a bit of give some candidates (in his Tampines team) more each. And either give expense or provide deposit. In other words, his financial plan can vary in all sorts of ways. Without knowing the full picture and his plan, you can't dictate your own theories as facts. You can only at most believe that he sold his flat or did not sell his flat and is lying. But if that was the case, the PAP will all be too willing to expose this.

I am hardly a fan of the PAP.

Don't distort my words - I NEVER said you are a PAP fan, as much as I recall you said PAP was the best party to run the government. I said what I earlier said because you questioned the greed of politicians, specifying examples with ONLY the opposition who even if greedy most did not had the opportunity to exercise that greed, but omitting to mention PAP who are also politicians YET currently has their greed satisfied.

You are the one who need to get your act together. You have lost track of what this issue is about and how it has come about.

No I haven't. Don't need to caricaturize - I am still on the topic. In fact I (am still) keep reiterating your earlier words and my earlier points.

 

[Perspective]

Logic they say is that if you declare you are rich, then the peasants will say you must be corrupt; if you say you are poor, they say you are lying. So damned if you do damned if you don't.

I think we are getting some vibes here..

Very apt example.

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

finished ? can wipe that froth from your lips after your epileptic fit ? From your mess of verbosity & bombastic rants, it is clear a raw nerve of yours have been rattled........

What I wrote was "bombastic"??? As far as I can tell, it was written in simple English.

Since the last time you started a thread imploring sam to do away with infractions & recounting your cowardly encounter with kingrant, I have noticed your narcissitic nature - snooty pseudo intellect who think you have an original thought that is earth-shattering .............

You are probably too daft to realise that "infractions" are in effect a tool of censorship. Wielded by a group of baboons huddled in a groupthink, even people with reasonable but unpalatable arguments can be and have been banned when the group of baboons start grouping up to issue infractions to every post they dislike or when the insults they dish out are returned in kind.

Puke on .... every post of yours against various individuals simply reveal your psychotic mania of wanting to be one against the world .....

How can I be one against the world when there are others who share my opinion??? I have ignored your little stupid tirade in the Jack Neo thread but when the mood strikes me and I returned the favour here, your little self-righteous heart starts bleeding.

Look, I will be happy to engage you in a flame war when I have time to spare and am in the mood to be trivial and frivolous. But please create a separate thread for it. Don't spoil this thread with inconsequential rubbish. Thanks.

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

The 17k pay-check does work magic on ideology I guess. Even once outspoken critics of the PAP V Balakrishnan and W Woon have succumbed to the almighty $.

Nothing more powerful than money to seal shut the mouths of those who claim they are "opposition". Nothing sweeter than money to make those tounges sing the tune of their paymasters.

Unless a unity government comes together in times of crisis, people tend to forget that the purpose of being in opposition is to oppose. If you have nothing to oppose and in fact start praising, echoing and parroting your opponents, what in the world are you calling yourself an opposition for?

I know the usual rejoinder will come in. You don't oppose for the sake of opposing. My reply to that is simple. If you have nothing to oppose, it simply means your political ideology and platform is similar to those you claim you challenge.

And if your ideology and platform is similar, wouldn't it be better to join the PAP and call yourself a PAP politician and not degenerate into an E-grade PEP politician?

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

*This is a Hobson's trap argument.* If he gained cash by selling his flat, it insinuates he is dishonest for not putting money in CPF. If he did not gain much cash as he needed to put money back in CPF, he is again dishonest for painting the picture that he is gaining a lot of cash. Tails lose, heads lose. I think after this is laid bare people would know what argument you're trying to achieve.

Look, I have no intention of going on and on and on and on and on in engaging you on these trivial peripheral stuff. As I said, it is no skin of my nose if you or anyone choose to read what I wrote in any way you see fit.

I came in after about 100 messages or so in this thread when I saw the heroworshiping of GMS by those who were starstrucked by his "I am selling my flat" announcement. They, like you, were under the impression created that "selfless" Goh was going to "sacrifice" himself and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars when in truth, it could not be so. This is since the bulk of the proceeds of the sale will go back into paying the remaining loan on his flat and back into his CPF account.

There is a reason why you need to swear not just the truth, but the "whole truth" in court. That is simply because a partial truth can and more often be, worse than a full blown lie.

I have achieved my objective when GMS had no choice but was forced to reveal his $30-$40K figure and not the hundreds of thousands of dollars that the gullible were led to believe by the half-truths that were bandied around.

 

[Perspective]

Look, I have no intention of going on and on and on and on and on in engaging you on these trivial peripheral stuff. As I said, it is no skin of my nose if you or anyone choose to read what I wrote in any way you see fit.

I came in after about 100 messages or so in this thread when I saw the heroworshiping of GMS by those who were starstrucked by his "I am selling my flat" announcement. They, like you, were under the impression created that "selfless" Goh was going to "sacrifice" himself and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars when in truth, it could not be so. This is since the bulk of the proceeds of the sale will go back into paying the remaining loan on his flat and back into his CPF account.

There is a reason why you need to swear not just the truth, but the "whole truth" in court. That is simply because a partial truth can and more often be, worse than a full blown lie.

I have achieved my objective when GMS had no choice but was forced to reveal his $30-$40K figure and not the hundreds of thousands of dollars that the gullible were led to believe by the half-truths that were bandied around.

Looks like you're hitting a snag and it's always my style to spare.

You might want to observe that to many, how much GMS is getting from the sales is immaterial. To think you'd been chasing that like a dog chasing its tail and finally still failed to convince. To others, it's like someone who resigns from his job to enter a singing contest to strike a entertainment career. You would probably argue that how much he was paid in his last job is important issue. "Aiya, he was working as a cleaner only mah, earn $700 per month." To the person's fans, it is immaterial.

It is true that GMS move won't win over PAP people and those like you who do not support him. But heck, he won't win them over even if he didn't do anything anyway. People would have to decide whether they would suffer under the PAP 2 generations down the road. To a neutral like me (not neutral politically but neutral in taking sides), it does show how much difference and expectation we have to show PAP and opposition, since their way of getting resource is very stark different.