The SBF Gay Debate

[Agoraphobic]

I am neither pro nor anti gay. It is an individual (adult) choice. Whether it is genetic, or influenced by environment or social factors, I have no knowledge, or care. As far as I am concerned, it is unnatural. But gay people should not be treated as unhuman, or be subjected to inhumane treatment. They have the right to live, work, and go about as much as anyone else and have equal rights as any other citizen in the land. Having said this, they do not have the right to impose their way of life on others who choose not to be gay. The respect has to go both ways.

As for gay marriage, I have no idea why the hell they wish to get married unless they wish to form a family and adopt orphaned children. For this, it is up to the state/nation's laws.

Cheers!

 

[mojito]

I am neither pro nor anti gay. It is an individual (adult) choice. Whether it is genetic, or influenced by environment or social factors, I have no knowledge, or care. As far as I am concerned, it is unnatural. But gay people should not be treated as unhuman, or be subjected to inhumane treatment. They have the right to live, work, and go about as much as anyone else and have equal rights as any other citizen in the land. Having said this, they do not have the right to impose their way of life on others who choose not to be gay. The respect has to go both ways.

As for gay marriage, I have no idea why the hell they wish to get married unless they wish to form a family and adopt orphaned children. For this, it is up to the state/nation's laws.

Cheers!

I think the concern in some segments is regarding their motives. Are they actually trying to promote a promiscuous lifestyle with homosexual partners? I think a lot of the me-versus-you rhetoric from both sides borders on juvenile and is ultimately counterproductive at creating a meeting of minds.

And then there is a third group who think themselves as hip and open-minded, discounting religious people and their values as "fundamentalism." Pfft.

 

[kryonlight]

Are they actually trying to promote a promiscuous lifestyle with homosexual partners?

Homosexual = Promiscuous.
Straight = Fidelity.
LOL!

If those fundies allowed 377A to be repealed, Pink Dot would become history. If those fundies continue to ignore the basic rights of humans, Pink Dot would become pinker than ever.

 

[kryonlight]

As for gay marriage, I have no idea why the hell they wish to get married unless they wish to form a family and adopt orphaned children. For this, it is up to the state/nation's laws.

I have no objection if gays and lesbians wish to get married. But I object to them adopting children. They can adopt dogs and cats, but not human babies! Human babies can only be adopted by heterosexual families.

 

[Agoraphobic]

I do not know about others. On this, I am only able to air my own views. As for influencing, I do not know how people can be "influenced" into being gay. I myself am turned off if a male person attempts at making sexual advance to me. If I could whack that guy, I probably would. It's never happened before except a time during uni when I was sitting at a bar in a disco/restaurant. I had shoulder length hair and a man approached me from behind and said "Excuse me miss, would you like to dance?" I turned around to answer him and when he saw my face, he was horrified I wasn't a girl! I then said, "You still wanna dance?" He looked so embarassed and said no, and walked away. I still chuckle whenever I think of that incident.

Anyways, coming back to our topic, I do not know about theese gay movements, their political agenda, and other incidents as I have no gay friends nor do I know anyone who is openly gay. For the curios youth in their puberty adolescent days, I suppose they have to make up their mind who they are before they become "adults". Religion is another issue, they should keep their practices and beliefs to themselves too.

Me, I am a man. I love pussy.

Cheers!

I think the concern in some segments is regarding their motives. Are they actually trying to promote a promiscuous lifestyle with homosexual partners? I think a lot of the me-versus-you rhetoric from both sides borders on juvenile and is ultimately counterproductive at creating a meeting of minds.

And then there is a third group who think themselves as hip and open-minded, discounting religious people and their values as "fundamentalism." Pfft.

 

[frenchbriefs]

I think the concern in some segments is regarding their motives. Are they actually trying to promote a promiscuous lifestyle with homosexual partners? I think a lot of the me-versus-you rhetoric from both sides borders on juvenile and is ultimately counterproductive at creating a meeting of minds.

And then there is a third group who think themselves as hip and open-minded, discounting religious people and their values as "fundamentalism." Pfft.

oh dear,discounting religious people and their values as "fundamentalism"boo hoo what a crybaby we have here.....let me ask u,did anyone point a gun to ur head and forced u to accept it?no just like every piece of science,philosophy,ideology,psychology,sociology,morality i study,i have my own wits and intelligence and logical faculty to decide whether i think it is right or it has merits for me to accept it....or reject it.....so if u choose to delude urself,..how is it anyone's fault?

 

[frenchbriefs]

I do not know about others. On this, I am only able to air my own views. As for influencing, I do not know how people can be "influenced" into being gay. I myself am turned off if a male person attempts at making sexual advance to me. If I could whack that guy, I probably would. It's never happened before except a time during uni when I was sitting at a bar in a disco/restaurant. I had shoulder length hair and a man approached me from behind and said "Excuse me miss, would you like to dance?" I turned around to answer him and when he saw my face, he was horrified I wasn't a girl! I then said, "You still wanna dance?" He looked so embarassed and said no, and walked away. I still chuckle whenever I think of that incident.

Anyways, coming back to our topic, I do not know about theese gay movements, their political agenda, and other incidents as I have no gay friends nor do I know anyone who is openly gay. For the curios youth in their puberty adolescent days, I suppose they have to make up their mind who they are before they become "adults". Religion is another issue, they should keep their practices and beliefs to themselves too.

Me, I am a man. I love pussy.

Cheers!

rubbish,u probably looked like one of those effeminate asian guys that looks like a 12 year flat chested girl when u strode into the bar wearing that skintight blouse and that gay crotch hugging jeans,u probably had long silky hair like those 70s rock n roll artists...i bet when u put on a bikini the music starts playing.....

lalalalalaa lola.....why she walk like a women and talk like a man....

[video=youtube;nVXmMMSo47s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVXmMMSo47s[/video]

 

[DuYunQi]

Firstly, I'm stating my views.. and I also tried to find info on the internet as much as i can.

The LGBT movement seems to draw on this "gays are born gays" and so, should be treated as normal (this is from what I have read so far). However, there are so many conflicting studies and research that there seems to be no conclusive evidence to show that "gays" are born that way.

The only truth, is that a baby is born with either male or female genitals (either non-deformed or deformed) and would usually develop as they age, into functional reproductive organs. And we all know that a man can't produce a baby without a woman. So, gay and lesbian couples who get into same sex relationships would already know that they can't have babies naturally. Why then would they want to start a family? That's my question.

And, if a male needs a female to produce offspring, isn't that saying a LOT about same-sex relationships? Is that natural? IMHO, same-sex relationships are not natural. It's a choice between two adults. Yes, adults. Not childre, for they know nothing of sex, sexuality or sexual orientation.. not until their hormones kick in and all that. To say that a baby is born gay.. means that a baby would have to be aware of sex, sexuality and sexual orientation and/or preference.. and I believe we all know that would is untrue.

Finally, I don't know what kind of discrimination the LGBT ar talking about, but if they want same sex marriage, I don't think the majority of people in SG would be comfortable with it. Imagine gay and lesbian couples being legally married.. they can then apply for HDB flats then? Thus competing with hetero couples who may want to start families.. bear and raise children.. so.. whose rights will be compromised then?

 

[frenchbriefs]

if u study natural science,u will know that only a tiny percentage of the living organisms on earth need a male and female sex to reproduce.....in fact reproduction is merely the copying of dna,it could be a combination of different dna strands or just one.....but thats no rule regarding how dna is copied or transferred between organisms to create new ones.

Firstly, I'm stating my views.. and I also tried to find info on the internet as much as i can.

The LGBT movement seems to draw on this "gays are born gays" and so, should be treated as normal (this is from what I have read so far). However, there are so many conflicting studies and research that there seems to be no conclusive evidence to show that "gays" are born that way.

The only truth, is that a baby is born with either male or female genitals (either non-deformed or deformed) and would usually develop as they age, into functional reproductive organs. And we all know that a man can't produce a baby without a woman. So, gay and lesbian couples who get into same sex relationships would already know that they can't have babies naturally. Why then would they want to start a family? That's my question.

And, if a male needs a female to produce offspring, isn't that saying a LOT about same-sex relationships? Is that natural? IMHO, same-sex relationships are not natural. It's a choice between two adults. Yes, adults. Not childre, for they know nothing of sex, sexuality or sexual orientation.. not until their hormones kick in and all that. To say that a baby is born gay.. means that a baby would have to be aware of sex, sexuality and sexual orientation and/or preference.. and I believe we all know that would is untrue.

Finally, I don't know what kind of discrimination the LGBT ar talking about, but if they want same sex marriage, I don't think the majority of people in SG would be comfortable with it. Imagine gay and lesbian couples being legally married.. they can then apply for HDB flats then? Thus competing with hetero couples who may want to start families.. bear and raise children.. so.. whose rights will be compromised then?

 

[scroobal]

Good post.

I like to take the point about "what kind of discrimination" a little further.

In fact I think the issue lies here. They need to clearly articulate what they mean by discrimination. We are probably one of the most liberal society in a funny way when it comes to sex and sexual inclination. I don't see overt homophobic behaviour that I have seen elsewhere in the western society. We had Pat Chan, Kumar, and so many gay personalities on national TV and we all knew which side of the bat they were batting.

As far I know there is no discrimination in the workplace, places where people congregate etc. Singaporeans are very tolerant and to Asians we all had that uncle and aunts they were always the fun and creative ones.

Ok the 377a law is a constant threat. I agree that it needs to go but in its place we need to stop this promiscuous behaviour by another law whether Hetero or Gay.

SF bath houses, AIDS epidemic and general propensity to get aids within the gay community has nothing to do with they joining hands and singing kumbaya. How do they explain the high rate of infection - heat speaking missile with gays radiating higher heat profile ?

As to same sex marriage and parenting, they need to fight a very long battle and that's when we all have to draw the lines.

Firstly, I'm stating my views.. and I also tried to find info on the internet as much as i can.

Finally, I don't know what kind of discrimination the LGBT ar talking about, but if they want same sex marriage, I don't think the majority of people in SG would be comfortable with it. Imagine gay and lesbian couples being legally married.. they can then apply for HDB flats then? Thus competing with hetero couples who may want to start families.. bear and raise children.. so.. whose rights will be compromised then?

 

[scroobal]

I think it was 2 years ago when I attended an event organised with the sponsorship of Barclays. All I remember was how well the participants were groomed, body toned and the expensive clothes they wore. These clothes were not something you find straightaway. It required careful shopping, looking at latest trend magazines and catalogues. They all seemed well educated, spoke very well and confident.

I was envious and wanted to be just like them. Even the older ones had class. If this paints discrimination, I must be on another planet.

Went home and dug a little deeper. Made some contacts and I asked them about what I saw. They told me that these are not only powerful and influential, they are also after the same thing - further their careers and their business. They are no less aggressive than some of the cut throat and ambitious people that we see anywhere. Some of them will sell their mothers to get ahead. So I said - so they are no different to rest of mankind and the answer was resounding yes.

It's no different to certain people playing the minority or race card or the infamous Dr Wlliam Tan and his wheelchair to get donations to see the world until he was caught out leaching on a vulnerable middle aged lady. Nobody in his right mind will stand at centre stage and ask why Dr Tan is constantly asking for donations and if anyone has seen his accounts.

Vincent Wijeyasinghe comment about the Catholic Church was an eye opener. I am sure it not only opened my eyes but that of many others.

 

[frenchbriefs]

competing with hetero couples for hdb flats....omfg what a homophobic statement....let me ask u how many foreigners have we imported since 2002?out of 1.3 million,900,000 of these are low skilled low paid workers on temporary passes.....do u seriously think some homosexual sinkies getting married is going to pose serious competition compared to 900,000 aliens we have here living in singapore either in rented or owned HDB flats?taking up valuable space and driving up housing demand and prices?

how many homosexuals u think there are in singapore?i googled and it says less than 2% of the human population is LBGT.2% of the population.....versus 1.3 million foreigners.

 

[frenchbriefs]

yeah no discrimination alright,i can replace the word gay in ur post with gooks,chinks,charlies,niggers,shitskins and i can literally feel the discrimination baking off it like heat waves off a highway....my god the passive aggresiveness and the hidden vitriol and toxicity......

anyway dont bother,this is a pointless "debate" the truth is nobody really cares about gays or what they do really.....its just the so called extreme "conservatives" that wants to stir shit and make their

Good post.

I like to take the point about "what kind of discrimination" a little further.

In fact I think the issue lies here. They need to clearly articulate what they mean by discrimination. We are probably one of the most liberal society in a funny way when it comes to sex and sexual inclination. I don't see overt homophobic behaviour that I have seen elsewhere in the western society. We had Pat Chan, Kumar, and so many gay personalities on national TV and we all knew which side of the bat they were batting.

As far I know there is no discrimination in the workplace, places where people congregate etc. Singaporeans are very tolerant and to Asians we all had that uncle and aunts they were always the fun and creative ones.

Ok the 377a law is a constant threat. I agree that it needs to go but in its place we need to stop this promiscuous behaviour by another law whether Hetero or Gay.

SF bath houses, AIDS epidemic and general propensity to get aids within the gay community has nothing to do with they joining hands and singing kumbaya. How do they explain the high rate of infection - heat speaking missile with gays radiating higher heat profile ?

As to same sex marriage and parenting, they need to fight a very long battle and that's when we all have to draw the lines.

 

[Rogue Trader]

I don't hate my gay friends. But I hate the gay movement in singapore.

I acknowledge the liberialisation the gay movement has brought to the social-political scene in this country. People like Alex Au and Vincent W have been more out spoken because of social awareness. But a line has to be drawn somewhere. I just don't want to live in a place where 2 men can kiss openly in public. Full stop.

 

[frenchbriefs]

I don't hate my gay friends. But I hate the gay movement in singapore.

I acknowledge the liberialisation the gay movement has brought to the social-political scene in this country. People like Alex Au and Vincent W have been more out spoken because of social awareness. But a line has to be drawn somewhere. I just don't want to live in a place where 2 men can kiss openly in public. Full stop.

what about two women kissing openly in public?is that alright?

 

[mojito]

Singaporeans are such close-minded people. Unlike me. Oh, I am so hip! So avant garde! Wowe.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

As to same sex marriage and parenting, they need to fight a very long battle and that's when we all have to draw the lines.

Don't understand the big fuss about same sex marriage. There is no need to have same sex marriage brought into the legal and constitutional framework of society. If you want to live together, go right ahead. If you want to will your assets to your boyfriend, there are already legal channels to do that. The only issue is purchase of public housing and that should be governed under the rules that apply to singles.

The more important question is adoption of kids and whether society should allow a pair of men or a pair of women to do so. On that score, I have no qualms. We have mothers who raise children on their own because the father died in an accident. Do we discriminate against them? No of course not. Is there proof that a pair of homosexuals will be poorer parents than a single mother slogging 12 hours to raise a family? None whatsoever.

On another score, I don't agree that homosexual is unnatural just because it cannot be detected at birth and just because it happens to be a minority condition. Some people out there make it sound as if it is as unnatural as eating glass or inedible matter out for perverse fun. I find that kind of idea offensive even as a heterosexual man. The sexual orientation is inbuilt into the brain function and chemistry and is no less natural than heterosexual orientation.

 

[scroobal]

If a kid had a choice, would that kid pick 2 parents of the same sex or parents of opposite sex? The argument here is the kid and not the parents. Kids are not pets.

Single parenting is never desired. It is an outcome that generally that came out of an unexpected event. I don't think single parenting comes into the equation.

Don't understand the big fuss about same sex marriage. There is no need to have same sex marriage brought into the legal and constitutional framework of society. If you want to live together, go right ahead. If you want to will your assets to your boyfriend, there are already legal channels to do that. The only issue is purchase of public housing and that should be governed under the rules that apply to singles.

The more important question is adoption of kids and whether society should allow a pair of men or a pair of women to do so. On that score, I have no qualms. We have mothers who raise children on their own because the father died in an accident. Do we discriminate against them? No of course not. Is there proof that a pair of homosexuals will be poorer parents than a single mother slogging 12 hours to raise a family? None whatsoever.

On another score, I don't agree that homosexual is unnatural just because it cannot be detected at birth and just because it happens to be a minority condition. Some people out there make it sound as if it is as unnatural as eating glass or inedible matter out for perverse fun. I find that kind of idea offensive even as a heterosexual man. The sexual orientation is inbuilt into the brain function and chemistry and is no less natural than heterosexual orientation.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I am neither pro nor anti gay. It is an individual (adult) choice. Whether it is genetic, or influenced by environment or social factors, I have no knowledge, or care. As far as I am concerned, it is unnatural. But gay people should not be treated as unhuman, or be subjected to inhumane treatment. They have the right to live, work, and go about as much as anyone else and have equal rights as any other citizen in the land. Having said this, they do not have the right to impose their way of life on others who choose not to be gay. The respect has to go both ways.

Cheers!

Oh yes, forgot to reply to your post. I disagree with the notion that being gay is ever a choice. Why would anyone "choose" to be gay when there is so much vitriol hurled against gay people by straight people? I'm not even talking about other countries where there is regular physical assault even deaths. On the other points in your post, I agree. They should be regarded as any other human.

The standard of decent conduct should be the same whether gay or straight. If a straight man goes to jail for touching a woman's private parts, a gay man also must suffer some form of punishment under the legal system if he does the same to another man, should the other man want to pursue. Maybe not jail, because the level of trauma obviously differs between a man who is molested and a woman who is molested, but the right of legal redress should be there.

Of course, most straight men prefer to just bash the fucker up and settle the issue in 30 secs, and that's fine by me. I'm talking more about kids and teenagers who may not have the "bashing" option.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

I think it was 2 years ago when I attended an event organised with the sponsorship of Barclays. All I remember was how well the participants were groomed, body toned and the expensive clothes they wore. These clothes were not something you find straightaway. It required careful shopping, looking at latest trend magazines and catalogues. They all seemed well educated, spoke very well and confident.

I was envious and wanted to be just like them. Even the older ones had class. If this paints discrimination, I must be on another planet.

Went home and dug a little deeper. Made some contacts and I asked them about what I saw. They told me that these are not only powerful and influential, they are also after the same thing - further their careers and their business. They are no less aggressive than some of the cut throat and ambitious people that we see anywhere. Some of them will sell their mothers to get ahead. So I said - so they are no different to rest of mankind and the answer was resounding yes.

It's no different to certain people playing the minority or race card or the infamous Dr Wlliam Tan and his wheelchair to get donations to see the world until he was caught out leaching on a vulnerable middle aged lady. Nobody in his right mind will stand at centre stage and ask why Dr Tan is constantly asking for donations and if anyone has seen his accounts.

Vincent Wijeyasinghe comment about the Catholic Church was an eye opener. I am sure it not only opened my eyes but that of many others.

You did not mention if these ppl are gay. Pls clarify are they gay?

Also pls explain yourself is there a difference if somene is gay and ruthless or straight and ruthless?


They way you are putting things and i am just assuming these ppl you mentioned are gay are like only gays do it or when gays do it you are so shocked by it.