Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for him

[yellowarse]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

WP believes in starting with zero growth to stabilize the population, while you believe in growth that will benefit Singaporeans but crowd Singapore out further. Your premise and WP's premise is different, so why are you correcting the semantics without understanding what WP stands for first?

No, that's not what I understand of TS's position. Read his passage again. He didn't state anywhere that he believed in 'growth that will benefit Singaporeans but crowd Singapore out further'. What he simply said was, instead of restating and re-justifying at length WP's position on the white paper – of which we're all aware – he should have used the opportunity to whack Pinkie's self-satisfied concept of 'growth' and its horrendous ramifications.

Never allow your opponent to put you on the back foot, on the defensive.

When gay Loong puts it to you like this, don't micro manage the reply. Instead, reply in a manner that will resonate with the population. When gay loong says "we have continued to grow", you have to ask him "at what cost", and " who does this growth benefit.?" You should have informed him that the only growth that the PAP has be responsible for is the growth of 2 million new jobs to FTs. You should have told him the so called growth has not benefited the singaporean men and women on the street. And that this growth has come at the expense of riots, crowded public transportation, expensive housing, etc. Under this circumstances, zero growth is better than the PAP's kind of growth. why bother to talk simi lancheow population white paper with him?​

 

[HK14K]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

It is not a matter of how long or whether LTK is going to be there or not.

Of course... years after years and GEs after GEs.... People like you will always comes back to the forum and say "The oppos will do better in the next GE"!!! Such phrases or sentences have been said since I was a kid!!!

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

It is no doubt that LTK didn't really whack back hard when he has the golden opportunity to do so. This is especially when PM Lee has tried to make very petty childish claims of what "constructive politics" is all about.

LTK could have whacked him hard by stating that many of the so call "U-Turn" done by PAP government are the results of the contributions of opposition parties but PAP has never given credits to others except themselves. So why should he expect WP to give PAP the credits for whatever policies it has changed?

The most obvious one is the U-Turn of Public Transport policy. It is basically a partial nationalization process which was advocated by WP itself! Just whack that bugger until he got nothing to say but alas, LTK has missed the chance altogether.

This is what I have written:

After one night sleep, I am finally enlightened on what PM Lee wants liao! He is just stomping his feet like a child, pointing fingers at opposition leader LTK and shouted, "You very bad! You neber help me to provide solutions to my problems and neber say I am good when I have come up with BRILLIANT solutions and Bolicies! I don't want to friend you liao!"

But look, why is he expecting opposition parties to come up with solutions when he and his ministers are paid millions and regarded as "SUPER TALENTS"? The worst part is, he is expecting opposition members to sing praises of his policies? Sure or not? I don't see PAP members sing praises of opposition members when they have come up with great ideas which was plagiarized, used and repackaged into another name to make them look like its PAP's own ideas!

The many so call "rethink", "U-turn" or whatever, are the results of opposition parties banging hard on the various points: from the infamous HDB housing issues (ahem, of course I am the top champion here lah!) to inadequate hospital beds (Ahem, also me lah), universal health insurance (SDP has it in their policy papers while NSP has it in their manifesto), Privatization of public transport (Workers Party), Education policy, 6.9m population policy (without our battle cries you think PAP will "slow down" the growth?) and now, pushing for CPF reforms...etc. which of these are not the results of opposition members' push? Did PAP acknowledge the various contributions by individuals and opposition parties? No! Not that we so gian want their acknowledgement but please lah, if you don't acknowledge the contributions by others, why are you wanting other people to acknowledge your various "reactionary policy U Turns"? Don't so thick skin can or not?

 

[laksaboy]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

WP didn't whack hard because it is not supposed to.

Its main objective now is to win over the less hardcore supporters of the PAP by taking a more moderate, less confrontational stance.

When you have a first-past-the-post electoral system, this will inevitably happen.

It is about mathematics, plain and simple.

Sinkies should get educated about such things.

[video=youtube;s7tWHJfhiyo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo[/video]


Personally, there is no need for an opposition MP to whack the pappies hard in Parliament. The pappies are whacking themselves pretty hard with missteps and idiocy. It is okay to give them more rope to hang themselves.

 

[cass888]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

Unlike you other oppie types, LTK has already picturing himself on the other side of the aisle (it will never happen but he can dream). He is therefore not going to take a stand which he needs to change when he is PM - because he knows the PAP policies are correct.

jam up simi lancheow, Mr. Low? You only have 7 seats in parliament. At any one time, they can steam roll over u with any bills they want to pass. U are but a speed bump. Your reluctance to fight the PAP on each and every front because you "do not want to jam up the government" is indicative of either your party as PAP stooges, or you are really clueless. The fact is the situation is very dire for many singaporeans, and for you not to fight tooth and nail against the PAP because you are afraid of "jamming" the govt. is really a stupid concept on you part. That is why I think you are a fake oppo. JBJ would have never stood there and took the beating that you did. I am a nobody, but even I could have put up a better fight that you. $16,000 a month is not easy money to earn, lets see you really work for it.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

For such arty farty issue, if you don't whack, you will lose even the middle ground. They will see you no up lah! That's why MSM has such a good field day propagating his deficiency and PM Lee's victory parading with all sorts of reports and comments.

Goh Meng Seng

WP didn't whack hard because it is not supposed to.

Its main objective now is to win over the less hardcore supporters of the PAP by taking a more moderate, less confrontational stance.

When you have a first-past-the-post electoral system, this will inevitably happen.

It is about mathematics, plain and simple.

Sinkies should get educated about such things.

[video=youtube;s7tWHJfhiyo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo[/video]


Personally, there is no need for an opposition MP to whack the pappies hard in Parliament. The pappies are whacking themselves pretty hard with missteps and idiocy. It is okay to give them more rope to hang themselves.

 

[laksaboy]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

For such arty farty issue, if you don't whack, you will lose even the middle ground. They will see you no up lah! That's why MSM has such a good field day propagating his deficiency and PM Lee's victory parading with all sorts of reports and comments.

The MSM presstitutes will keep doing what they are doing, only the gullible ones believe the propaganda they churn out.

Do not worry too much about what the WP is doing. It is doing what is the most politically expedient. That's how you take down the PAP juggernaut.

 

[cass888]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

With 7 full seats and 2 NCMP seats in Parliament, he no longer has any excuse not to form a shadow cabinet and advancing his own set of policies. By refusing to advance alternative policies, he is admitting that he is a permanent opposition leader never aspiring to lead the government. I guess that is the case anyway.

But look, why is he expecting opposition parties to come up with solutions when he and his ministers are paid millions and regarded as "SUPER TALENTS"? The worst part is, he is expecting opposition members to sing praises of his policies? Sure or not? I don't see PAP members sing praises of opposition members when they have come up with great ideas which was plagiarized, used and repackaged into another name to make them look like its PAP's own ideas!

 

[tanwahp]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

No, that's not what I understand of TS's position. Read his passage again. He didn't state anywhere that he believed in 'growth that will benefit Singaporeans but crowd Singapore out further'. What he simply said was, instead of restating and re-justifying at length WP's position on the white paper – of which we're all aware – he should have used the opportunity to whack Pinkie's self-satisfied concept of 'growth' and its horrendous ramifications.

Never allow your opponent to put you on the back foot, on the defensive.

I guess it is best for the TS to speak for himself since both of us might be wrong.

On your point, yes LTK's position was a defensive one as the debate in this case was about WP and not the PAP. We will agree to disagree how effective the defensive position is; it is not black-and-white or a "back foot" all the time.

 

[tanwahp]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

Of course... years after years and GEs after GEs.... People like you will always comes back to the forum and say "The oppos will do better in the next GE"!!! Such phrases or sentences have been said since I was a kid!!!

Progressively, my friend. People had been talking about opposition winning a GRC and the unimaginable has happened. The real change needs to be accepted by the people, not the opposition's own wishful thinking.

 

[tanwahp]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

With 7 full seats and 2 NCMP seats in Parliament, he no longer has any excuse not to form a shadow cabinet and advancing his own set of policies.

In other countries, a party with 9 seats would not be considered for a shadow party.

 

[yellowarse]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

WP didn't whack hard because it is not supposed to.

Its main objective now is to win over the less hardcore supporters of the PAP by taking a more moderate, less confrontational stance.

Personally, there is no need for an opposition MP to whack the pappies hard in Parliament. The pappies are whacking themselves pretty hard with missteps and idiocy. It is okay to give them more rope to hang themselves.

Disagree on the not-whacking bit.

By 'middle ground' I presume you mean moderate + fence-sitting + undecided PAP (& oppo) voters. In first-past-the-post, you have to win them over – no question about it. But you win them over not by playing a passive oppo playing out rope to the incumbent, nor by (in Singapore at least) engaging in meaningless confrontational rhetoric, but by highlighting and playing up the deficiencies and fallacies in the myriad Pappy arguments doled out in parliament. The only way to do this is to actively engage, rebut, debunk and demolish your opponent.

That way you make the middle ground see the bullshit behind the Pappy rhetoric and swing them to your side. You don't do that by playing the smiling tiger and waiting for the Pappies to hang themselves when the media are on their side. They're screwing up real bad, but the oppo must hasten the process by making people aware of these cock-ups at every single opportunity, both in and outside Parliament.

Take a leaf out of Roy's book (minus the defamatory bit).

 

[Manager]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

why dont you PAP haters just admit it.
LTK and the WP are clueless and useless!
you need better oppositions.

 

[yellowarse]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

why dont you PAP haters just admit it.
LTK and the WP are clueless and useless!
you need better oppositions.

Nice try. As I said in another post, we need more, not less, oppo in Parliament if we would like to prevent the PAP from screwing up Singaporeans any further with self-serving and exploitative policies. Quality is important, but what's even more important is more Oppo MPs at the expense of PAP, not more of one Oppo party vs another Oppo party.

Right now, Parliament is just a big joke, a rubber stamping institution.

 

[HK14K]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

Progressively, my friend. People had been talking about opposition winning a GRC and the unimaginable has happened. The real change needs to be accepted by the people, not the opposition's own wishful thinking.

Winning a GRC is nothing my dear friend.... During Election they goes by percentage be it SG or other country.

It's the same when you walk into a casino, if you talk about percentage winning, you'll win in the long run but if you look at physical amount of your winnings, then i bet you good luck. Example ; If you bring 10k into a casino, winning a mere 3k to many people is little becoz their capital is 10k. They wanna win more than what they have brought into the casinos not knowing that 3k is already a 30% winnings. Which is why so many fools in SG went bankrupt going to casinos. The same goes for election....

PAP can lose 2 or 3 GRCs no problem but what's the percentage of their seats in the parliament. Whatever you and i can think of, the PMOs office has already thought about it.

Lastly, if one can't even understand or figure out the which portfolio the Elections Department falls under, I'm sad for them coz all their voices for oppositions are useless...

 

[HK14K]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

why dont you PAP haters just admit it.
LTK and the WP are clueless and useless!
you need better oppositions.

Good one pal!!!!

I've said since day one i registered myself here. I dun mind having a change of govt but the current crops of opposition are simply useless and dumb fuck

 

[yellowarse]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

I guess it is best for the TS to speak for himself since both of us might be wrong.

The TS's actual personal stand on growth is not the issue here. The issue is you've made a fallacious assumption that the TS believes in 'growth that will benefit Singaporeans but crowd out ...' when he didn't utter a single word to that effect. All he said was: 'Under these circumstances, zero growth is better than PAP's kind of growth.' Which actually implies support for WP's stand!

Likewise, it would be a fallacy for me to say tanwahp is a homophobic if he hadn't said anything about gays, and then turn around and say (when confronted by another person for the baseless allegation), 'Wait a minute, let's ask tanwahp first. Both of us may be wrong.'

 

[Manager]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

more = good? i heard clowns are available on the cheap? maybe sg should get them to run the government.
but you are right.. the LTK and the WP are a joke in parliament .
they are afraid to shoot not because they are responsible, but because they dont want to embarrass themselves with their incompetence speech and showing.
the same reason why some people are so vocal only in the forum, but will never dare to stand up and be counted when it matters.

Nice try. As I said in another post, we need more, not less, oppo in Parliament if we would like to prevent the PAP from screwing up Singaporeans any further with self-serving and exploitative policies. Quality is important, but what's even more important is more Oppo MPs at the expense of PAP, not more of one Oppo party vs another Oppo party.

Right now, Parliament is just a big joke, a rubber stamping institution.

 

[tanwahp]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

LTK and the WP are clueless and useless!
you need better oppositions.

Such messages will only be counterproductive for your third parties, SDP, SF, NSP etc.

There are opposition voters who think WP is more credible than the rest or the only credible opposition around. This explains the 10% difference between WP's votes and the other opposition. The only reason why it is 10% and not more is because some pro-WP voters believe in voting any opposition to reduce PAP's monopoly across the nation.

However, if another group starting calling others to vote any opposition except WP which is "PAP stooge", "fake opposition" etc, will cause this group to retaliate by voting only for WP and spoil their vote for the rest. And guess which group has the bigger numbers.

 

[Manager]

Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

if the opposition is good, i will support them too.
however this WP isnt of that calibre, in fact i am very disappointed with their showing so far.

they better shape up or ship out!

Good one pal!!!!

I've said since day one i registered myself here. I dun mind having a change of govt but the current crops of opposition are simply useless and dumb fuck