Why I prefer to hire foreigners over Singaporeans

[Froggy]

if you post this on TR, u will get roasted!

Thank you akunei, I don't post these things but since there is a post here already I thought I share my thoughts. What we experienced are factual.

 

[ionzu]

Which also could mean the writer (proclaimed employer) may not haf hired sg workers wif experience.. possibly aged between 35-45 or older? ...

Sure.. I agree that there are Sinkies who need to be whipped as they jus dun noe what is good for them.. but what about those that are not bad.. maybe average.. maybe above.. but cos of age.. and other factors.. are not being looked at by employers.. be it MNC, SME or govt ministries and agencies..??

good point. it seems the 35-45 yr olds are having trouble finding jobs or keeping jobs.

they can't keep jobs coz their roles can be replaced by a cheaper and younger EP pass holder.
they can't find new jobs coz many employers think you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

these are just stereotypes, and i'm sure there are exceptions to the rule.

 

[ionzu]

Its going to a a struggle for us over the next few months as another 5 PRC staff will have to go for the same reason.

business costs will be rising for everyone. eventually the costs will be passed on to consumers as business owners have to raise prices to maintain profits.

 

[AxisOfEvil]

It is the govt's fault. PAP made Singapore so prosperous and comfortable place to live with such high standards of service, its natural that people become spoilt and complain a lot in such an environment.
We shoudl bring the Myanmar generals and tekan singkies a little.

We need a Kim Jong II as PM. Sinkies deserved it.

 

[sammyboi]

Prove to everyone that you're really an employer.

you can't just expect people to believe everything you say. talk is cheap.

 

[Froggy]

Prove to everyone that you're really an employer.

you can't just expect people to believe everything you say. talk is cheap.

errrrrrr sammyoi you referring to who ha?

 

[Satyr]

I don't think I can keep quiet about this.

On August 19th I had to let my most hard working staff go. He is a pioneer of the company and worked with us as driver and delivery staff for almost 6 years. His work pass cannot be renewed because of the recent new rules reducing further the quota number of foreigners allowed to work in a company, we had no choice.

It was really sad for this simple reason, it was very difficult to get local workers who is willing to do overtime whenever its required despite paying locals local salary and terms, it was also very difficult to persuade local to double up as delivery and driving, strange but its true. When they needed the job they will say they will do it but after a while they will start to complain and complain and find means and ways to aviode. Our problem is not about paying more but the willingness to work overtime and also doubling up the delivery and driving responsibility. We've got locals requesting delivery staff to travel with him while he drives only. We have no such problem with our PRC staff. Other PRC staff that we hired as sales promoters in departmental stalls are also very hard working and willing to move from one departmental store to another whenever we needed to redeploy them due to staff on leave or any emergency, for local staff we met with stiff resistance and again unwilling to work overtime.

I cannot speak for the other industry but as far as my industry in retail is concern hiring locals is a constant struggle and I can testify to the fact that Chinese from China are more hard working in this sector.

So if a question is being asked to me whom I prefer to hire for my business in retail, there is no doubt for me to hire PRCs anytime.

Its going to a a struggle for us over the next few months as another 5 PRC staff will have to go for the same reason.

Been through the same thing. Any work that I can move out of Singapore I will. Had enough of this crap.

 

[Conqueror]

Ass Admirer Sigh

It is the govt's fault. PAP made Singapore so prosperous and comfortable place to live with such high standards of service, its natural that people become spoilt and complain a lot in such an environment.
We shoudl bring the Myanmar generals and tekan singkies a little.

That's silly. Can't you see that Lee Jong Il tried very hard to make his son a 'general' together with his mafia gang who are also and conveniently promoted to an ass-admirer and another as a beegees ? Who else was also a turncoat doggy ?

 

[Conqueror]

No COE + No HDB + No CPF = FT Cheaper

It was really sad for this simple reason, it was very difficult to get local workers who is willing to do overtime whenever its required despite paying locals local salary and terms, it was also very difficult to persuade local to double up as delivery and driving, strange but its true.

for local staff we met with stiff resistance and again unwilling to work overtime.

I can testify to the fact that Chinese from China are more hard working in this sector.

So if a question is being asked to me whom I prefer to hire for my business in retail, there is no doubt for me to hire PRCs anytime.

It's all about $ and not b'cos you cannot find one. If you advertise a $3,000 per mth plus OT you will see a long queue.

But, today's kids are a bit spoiled. So, you have to compromise on the way you operate. We never seems to point to the real problems that are eating up our profit margins like high rentals, insurances, COEs or even CPFs. Young people needed the money to buy houses for themselves which are often expensive.

New gen people wanted the good money and the time to enjoy it. Unless you say cannot find a ZhuGe type to lead your company to another level (ie. corporate, issue shares)

Long working hours is taxing too. Who wants to work in a retail or f&b industries that require 24/7 duty ?

FTs have their own families to feed back home. They are your present ah sui from many poorer places. They are cheaper b'cos their homes don't cost arms and legs.

 

[Tension68]

Thank you akunei, I don't post these things but since there is a post here already I thought I share my thoughts. What we experienced are factual.

I can understand your situation (if it is indeed true.. can't blame me for being suspicious).. and I can only say this.. did you sit down with the SG employee and ask and find out WHY they refuse? Your post jus indicate that they didn't want to.. or avoid.. but u nvr mentioned anything that YOU did or TRIED to do.. on YOUR part.

With all due respect, if you put ad up, and ppl come for interview.. of cos they will say they WILL DO ANYTHING.. wat do you expect them to say? No.. I dun wan overtime..?? den.. if I'm not wrong.. you WILL not even bother with that candidate.. rite?

Pls.. understand this.. in interviews, any negative comment (or perceived as a negative comment) will not go down well.. since u say u r an employer, u SHOULD know this.

Which is why interviewing.. over the years.. haf changed from routine questions.. to simple or complex situational questions.. to try to draw out the real personalities of the interviewee.

And forgive me for asking this.. but if you are willing to pay, and pay for overtime.. and the pay is really ok.. I doubt if NO sg wouldn't want to do it. The question is.. how much are you paying them for basic.. and how long do yuo want them to work overtime.. if they double up as delivery every time.. well.. you SHOULD know that any job or duty that isn't yours in the first place.. WILL be yours once you say yes to it.. JUST ONCE. Say ok once.. den can't reject next time... and then add on and on and on.

Don't say I am siding wif employees when I say this, but employers who only think of bottom-line and maximising profits without considering employees situation will not get EXTRA effort from their employees. But the sad truth is that employers will always use COSTs as something to tell employees to "double-up" or do extra responsibilities.. and when times r ok or better.. just dun raise wages/salaries.. or do anything for their employees.

Don't think of me as attacking you.. but if you didn't sit down to talk with those SG employees of urs.. and find out what is going on.. then I classify you as another one of those so-called "towkay wannabe".. make money fast and use ppl like tissue.

 

[Tension68]

good point. it seems the 35-45 yr olds are having trouble finding jobs or keeping jobs.

they can't keep jobs coz their roles can be replaced by a cheaper and younger EP pass holder.
they can't find new jobs coz many employers think you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

these are just stereotypes, and i'm sure there are exceptions to the rule.

exactly bro.. we all noe about stereotypes. .rite?
Heck.. when Bruce Lee was alive, he was so Fed-up wif the US stererotype for Chinese that he just came backto HK to make movies.. movies that made him really popular all over the world.. and changed the way everyone tot of Chinese people back then.
If it wasn't for him.. in american films.. chinese would still be tying pigtails or Qs.. sheesh.

And yes.. I have noticed alot of older ppl on the streets.. wearing casual.. wif a backpack.. and jus aimlessly walking.. it's a sad fact.. but our locals who DO haf work experience, ARE being replaced by CHEAP and younger foreigners..

 

[Kinana]

Lets hire more FTs. I think they are more deserving.

 

[sammyboi]

One things fer sure, FTs can't stand sinkie bosses, always milk them high and dry, forced to OT, Guiam siap, Gian Pung type of sg boss.

 

[ionzu]

Re: No COE + No HDB + No CPF = FT Cheaper

But, today's kids are a bit spoiled. So, you have to compromise on the way you operate. We never seems to point to the real problems that are eating up our profit margins like high rentals, insurances, COEs or even CPFs. Young people needed the money to buy houses for themselves which are often expensive.

New gen people wanted the good money and the time to enjoy it. Unless you say cannot find a ZhuGe type to lead your company to another level (ie. corporate, issue shares)

i wonder how they do it in japan without foreigners. i have received nothing but good service when i visit the shops in japan. yet they earn around 2-3k only (considering japanese cost of living), but they show great pride in their work.

 

[ionzu]

Don't think of me as attacking you.. but if you didn't sit down to talk with those SG employees of urs.. and find out what is going on.. then I classify you as another one of those so-called "towkay wannabe".. make money fast and use ppl like tissue.

i feel the answer is greater profit sharing with employees. they need to feel they have a stake in the business.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Employers who expect overtime from their employees are unproductive and disrespectful employers. If an employer needs overtime often then a new shift can be implemented. Orders can be processed faster to prevent OT for workers. Customers should be warned that late orders means later delivery. There should be express delivery charges. Have you ever thought that if delivery is the problem then there are others that have the same problem. Then why not set up a delivery company that works afterhours to solve your own problem and serve others too? Overtime should only exist in extreme cases when there are large orders. OT should not occur frequently unless management is lousy and implements poor working conditions and systems.

It is true that foreigners will work harder than locals and this is true when Singaporeans go overseas and the seats are exchanged. This is true anywhere else in the world. It is human nature to try harder when you are overseas. You have less familial obligations and the fact that you are in a foreign land means that you sacrificed a lot to leave your country and this will spur you to take every opportunity to ensure that you huat all the way when it comes to earning money.

The issue is whether a country should allow such practices like the PAPzis to occur. History and common sense shows and says that it is wrong not only from an economic point of view but it is also immoral and unethical that locals are made to fight on unequal ground against FTs for a basic necessity such as a job.

joetsys should relook at his business systems and employee relationships and see how he can run his business more productively and more profitably. There are thousands upon thousands of employers like him in SInagpore who are not very smart and rely on family, friend and PAPzi connections for their business instead of using entrepreneurship and innovation and quality service.

 

[Froggy]

I can understand your situation (if it is indeed true.. can't blame me for being suspicious).. and I can only say this.. did you sit down with the SG employee and ask and find out WHY they refuse? Your post jus indicate that they didn't want to.. or avoid.. but u nvr mentioned anything that YOU did or TRIED to do.. on YOUR part.

With all due respect, if you put ad up, and ppl come for interview.. of cos they will say they WILL DO ANYTHING.. wat do you expect them to say? No.. I dun wan overtime..?? den.. if I'm not wrong.. you WILL not even bother with that candidate.. rite?

Pls.. understand this.. in interviews, any negative comment (or perceived as a negative comment) will not go down well.. since u say u r an employer, u SHOULD know this.

Which is why interviewing.. over the years.. haf changed from routine questions.. to simple or complex situational questions.. to try to draw out the real personalities of the interviewee.

And forgive me for asking this.. but if you are willing to pay, and pay for overtime.. and the pay is really ok.. I doubt if NO sg wouldn't want to do it. The question is.. how much are you paying them for basic.. and how long do yuo want them to work overtime.. if they double up as delivery every time.. well.. you SHOULD know that any job or duty that isn't yours in the first place.. WILL be yours once you say yes to it.. JUST ONCE. Say ok once.. den can't reject next time... and then add on and on and on.

Don't say I am siding wif employees when I say this, but employers who only think of bottom-line and maximising profits without considering employees situation will not get EXTRA effort from their employees. But the sad truth is that employers will always use COSTs as something to tell employees to "double-up" or do extra responsibilities.. and when times r ok or better.. just dun raise wages/salaries.. or do anything for their employees.

Don't think of me as attacking you.. but if you didn't sit down to talk with those SG employees of urs.. and find out what is going on.. then I classify you as another one of those so-called "towkay wannabe".. make money fast and use ppl like tissue.

Thank you for your very fair comment Tension68.

You are right to say employers think about bottom line and maximizing profits, I guess this is the reason people go into business and become employers and in the process requires employees to to run the business to meet targets set up by the share holders.

Again I agree fully with your points about interview. For my case we are a very small company and due to the position as delivery driver we do not ask many serious questions however we did make known to them their basic roles and responsibilities which are drive and deliver like any courier guy. Initially all our delivery drivers are locals because only they have driving license. It was only when we encountered the problems with them that I pointed out and after counseling them and tolerating them until they quit we finally tried out asking our foreign storemen to try their job, we discovered it worked out very well for us.

Your comments are all very fair and I know you are not siding employees but just being reasonable. My situation is not that we are unable to get local delivery drivers with the pay but rather we had difficulties to get Singaporeans who will work overtime and carry goods. And if I really need to keep them then I may have to have more employees and this drives cost up for my business. But then just beside him I have foreign employees who is more than willing to do their job so what should I do?

The reason of my post is simply to point out differences in workers from different places. Just like water always flow to the lowest point anyone will always chose the easiest way out of any situation, in my case a worker who is willing to work overtime and another who is unwilling due to all sorts of reasons. My point is simply if our government do not control more tightly the influx of foreigners into this country and do not control more tightly the type of jobs foreigners can do then any employer not just me will always chose the easier way out of the situation.

And for the record I do not think of you attacking me, we're all here to post our feelings and comments freely however I cannot accept your comment that I am a "towkay wannabe" because I', not a wannabe and the reason I am in business is to make money not just for myself but also for all my shareholders. Have a great weekend.

 

[ionzu]

joetsys should relook at his business systems and employee relationships and see how he can run his business more productively and more profitably. There are thousands upon thousands of employers like him in SInagpore who are not very smart and rely on family, friend and PAPzi connections for their business instead of using entrepreneurship and innovation and quality service.

in all fairness, the market dictates the practices. if the majority of businesses were innovative and did not hire foreign workers, then the Joe fella can be roundly condemned. but the fact remains what he is doing is common practice for 90% of businesses in singapore. if Joe innovated and his business costs went up while his rivals' costs remained same or cheaper, don't you think Joe will be forced to close? and all his employees will be without job.

truly innovative and entrepreneurial businesses - maybe 10% in singapore. and none of them TLC/GLC.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

in all fairness, the market dictates the practices. if the majority of businesses were innovative and did not hire foreign workers, then the Joe fella can be roundly condemned. but the fact remains what he is doing is common practice for 90% of businesses in singapore. if Joe innovated and his business costs went up while his rivals' costs remained same or cheaper, don't you think Joe will be forced to close? and all his employees will be without job.

truly innovative and entrepreneurial businesses - maybe 10% in singapore. and none of them TLC/GLC.

You are looking at things negatively. If joetsys does his job properly and innovates then there is a chance that his profits will increase and his workers will be happier leading to higher productivity. Every problem provides a solution to something better. I mentioned that he needs to look into why OT is so frequent. I mentioned that he should look into additional charges for late orders from customers or for express orders. I mentioned that he could set up an afterhours delivery service which can help him and his partners earn more money if indeed there is such an issue with his company then there will be others like him too.

I can definitely improve his profits as well as improve the worklife of his workers if I have the opportunity to innovate his company's business practices and systems. If his product is good then it is not difficult to implement good systems that is a win-win for everybody including his customers.

 

[Kinana]

One things fer sure, FTs can't stand sinkie bosses, always milk them high and dry, forced to OT, Guiam siap, Gian Pung type of sg boss.

I am very nice to my FT employees