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Why I, a Christian, believe 377A should be repealed

Patriot

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The full text from http://hedgehogcomms.blogspot.com/2018/09/why-i-christian-believe-377a-should-be.html :

Of Kids and Education


MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 2018
Why I, a Christian, believe 377A should be repealed
Four years ago, I wrote a post in response to the NLB’s banning of the penguin books. Today, I’m writing a post in response to the 377A issue. I struggled with whether to post this because I know it will generate a lot of controversy from all sides, and I dislike conflict. Immensely.

However, I know many Christians have been grappling with this issue and I’ve been feeling a strong urge to share my views as a fellow Christian. I don’t know if you are for, against, or not sure which stance you are supposed to take. I will make it very clear – these are my views and I’m not forcing you to agree with me. We can agree to disagree. But if this post can somehow help you gain clarity on the issue, then that’s all I can ask for.

I believe 377A should be repealed. Here’s why:

1) Sin and crime are two very different things. Even if you believe homosexuality is a sin, as stated in the bible, it is unjust to call it a crime. I’ve said this before: some Christians feel like as long as LGBT is on the cards, they have to always take the other side. Stop and think about how ludicrous this is. If sins should be considered crimes, then why don’t we criminalise adultery? Or premarital sex? Or divorce? Or, as I jokingly mentioned on FB to the horror of my foodie friend, why not criminalise gluttony? Ban buffets!

2) The 377A is a sham because it is openly unenforced. What’s the point of it then? For this reason, having the 377A does not discourage homosexuality. It’s like having a law against speeding, then declaring that the law would never be enforced. Does the law deter speeding then? No. So if I say the law should be dropped, am I then saying that I support speeding? Of course not.

But by keeping 377A, we are legitimising hatred and prejudice towards the LGBT, which impinges on human rights. This is not just a secular issue. In the bible, we are told to seek justice for all as well.

As for the argument that we should uphold Asian values, guess what – 377A is not a law enacted by Singapore (and thus Asian). It is an antiquated British law introduced in 1938 that we inherited from our colonial past. So what Asian values are we talking about?

3) I hope you recognise that Singapore is a secular society. I think it’s terribly obtuse of Christians to insist that laws for a secular society should be in line with their own beliefs. You cannot furtively try to “make” Singapore more Christian by forcing Christian values down the throats of non-believers. That’s incredibly arrogant.

I will even go so far as to say that’s what the Jewish religious leaders in Jesus’ time did. Instead of loving, helping and guiding people, all they did was prescribe a whole lot of laws, police moral conduct and condemn those who did not fall within their circle of acceptability.

Consider the bible story of the woman caught in adultery (John 8:1-11). The Pharisees wanted to stone her according to the law of Moses. But Jesus said, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.” Note, he didn’t say: “Let him who is without sin of adultery”. The bible clearly states that “There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:22,23). All sins are equally bad, ie no sin is “better” than another. Why then do we always play up the sin of homosexuality with such indignation without looking at our own sins of greed, pride, anger, envy and so on?

Some Christians think that since the LGBT haven’t obeyed Jesus’ command to “go and sin no more”, they are justified in rejecting the LGBT. Yes, Jesus did say that. And that relationship is between God and the individual. Nothing to do with you. By the way, how are you doing with your own sins? Are you now completely sinless? It makes me incredibly angry that some people think they have the right to judge others in this way, or tell others they are not welcome in church until they repent. Who made you gatekeeper of God’s Kingdom?

Jesus was kind to the woman because she acknowledged her sin and received his grace. But he was harsh to the Pharisees because they condemned her and justified themselves. Contrary to popular belief, the hardened criminals or people struggling with sin are usually not those who are most lost to the gospel. Ironically, these are the ones who generally obey the rules, are quite nice folks and think they’re not so bad, therefore don’t need God’s mercy as much as others. Once we attribute righteousness through our own efforts and not through God, we are rejecting the gospel of grace. I believe that people with spiritual pride are always treated harshly by God because the self takes credit for God’s work.

Supporting the repeal is not equal to endorsing homosexuality

Most Christians would be familiar with the Parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37). In today’s context, if Jesus had retold the parable, I imagine the priest might be a pastor, the Levite a cell group leader, and the Samaritan a gay man who doesn’t believe in God.

Are you feeling offended? If you are, then perhaps you should ask yourself why. The people who were offended by the story during Jesus’ time were the Jews. They felt insulted because the priests and the Levites were the spiritual leaders of their time, whereas the Samaritans were half-Jew, half-Gentile and had their own religious system.

A guest speaker at my recent church conference was Pastor Peter Tsukahira, who pastors a church in Israel. He shared that we tend to believe the priest and Levite passed the wounded man on the road because they were heartless and uncaring. But at that time, priests had to abide by strict rules to maintain purity of the mind and body. Touching a dead or dying body would have rendered the priest impure and unable to perform his priestly duties, until he was thoroughly cleansed. Likewise for the Levites who performed some religious duties at the temple, touching a corpse was considered unclean. In other words, they could have been avoiding the man just so they could remain pure to perform God’s work.

In contrast, the Samaritans were considered heretics because they had broken away from God’s Word and believed that God could only be worshipped in Samaria.

Yet, Jesus deliberately told this parable in response to the young rabbi’s question: “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”, and said: “Go and do likewise.” He was contrasting the priest and Levite (who had belief but no action) with the Samaritan (who had the wrong belief but right action).

Some Christians fear that by supporting the repeal of 377A, they are sending the message that homosexuality is acceptable. It is not, the same way that when Jesus told the young rabbi to “go and do likewise”, he wasn’t endorsing the Samaritan’s belief. He was making the point that what we do matters too, not just what we believe.

Other Christians feel that 377A should be upheld, otherwise it will lead to the slippery slope of gay marriage promotion or homosexuality in schools. It bugs me that people think they can use the possibility of dangers in the future to justify them not doing the right thing now. This reminds me of the ancient emperors in China, who would eliminate entire families of their enemies, just to prevent any of them from seeking revenge in the future. We are to do the right thing, always. What may happen in the future does not justify any wrongdoing, ever.

Often, I feel people caricaturise the LGBT out of ignorance and fear. If you don’t have a single LGBT friend, then it’s easy to paint them as villains with a common evil intent (the “Gay Agenda”!) It’s just like how people who don’t have friends from other races tend to be the most racist. It’s easier to draw tribal lines and imagine “others” as a wicked bunch when you don’t know any of them. But the LGBT community, like the Christian community, is far from being a homogeneous group. If you take the time to befriend them and know them personally, you will see that each of them has his own fears, struggles, hopes and dreams. In other words, they are human beings, just like us.

The great commission is to turn people to Christ. And last I checked, trying to impose Christian values on non-believers usually has the opposite effect. Jesus said in no uncertain terms that we are live for Christ by loving God, and our neighbours as ourselves. And yes, our neighbours include the LGBT. Like it or not, this community has been deeply hurt by Christians in the past, even well-meaning ones. It’s time we showed them kindness as God intended it.

Showing them kindness doesn’t mean you are endorsing or encouraging homosexuality. Don’t confuse your actions with outcomes. You are only responsible for the former, not the latter. In fact, if you believe that you somehow have to control the outcome, then you are not only robbing God of His sovereignty, you are demonstrating very little faith in His ability to transform hearts. Be the light and God will take care of the rest.

“Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion. Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.” – Romans 12:15-18




As a Christian, I sincerely share the following opinion:

"Other Christians feel that 377A should be upheld, otherwise it will lead to the slippery slope of gay marriage promotion or homosexuality in schools. It bugs me that people think they can use the possibility of dangers in the future to justify them not doing the right thing now. This reminds me of the ancient emperors in China, who would eliminate entire families of their enemies, just to prevent any of them from seeking revenge in the future. We are to do the right thing, always. What may happen in the future does not justify any wrongdoing, ever."

We can only witness what is happening to other countries where homosexuality has been normalised and accepted as an alternative lifestyle to realise that REAL dangers exist and not just imaginary dangers.
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TmjszB0Y...a6B8yqxA0CVmbSxwCLcBGAs/s1600/isaiah+1+17.jpg
 

tanwahtiu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Phone consist of 2 parts.

1. Telecommunication use duplex.

2. Data use which is PC use.

All you need is a monitor and a table.

Take your phone plug into the station and work as PC.

Obviously you are outdatedly stubborn.

Phone with 4G RAM is a PC enough for all types works.... dickhead..






Everything of importance is done on a PC. Mobile devices are tools for consumption not production. Try creating a website on a mobile device and tell me how far you get.

View attachment 47578
 
Last edited:

congo9

Alfrescian
Loyal
Having Anal sex and homosexuality is 2 independent things. These LGBT like to mix things up.

If you are a man and enjoy fucking man through their ass or vice versa. It is illegal. The law will deal with you.
If you love the same sex, then we will not arrest you. Cos it is not a criminal to have love with same sex.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Phone consist of 2 parts.

1. Telecommunication use duplex.

2. Data use which is PC use.

All you need is a monitor and a table.

Take your phone plug into the station and work as PC.

Obviously you are outdatedly stubborn.

Phone with 4G RAM is a PC enough for all types works.... dickhead..


If you expect 4G of RAM to be sufficient for modern day web/graphic design and digital editing you are an even bigger moron than I thought.

My computer has 16Gb of RAM and it still struggles when rendering large image files with multiple layers.

aHR0cDovL3d3dy5sYXB0b3BtYWcuY29tL2ltYWdlcy93cC9wdXJjaC1hcGkvaW5jb250ZW50LzIwMTcvMDUvUkFNLVJlY2...jpg
 

bobby

Alfrescian
Loyal
Having Anal sex and homosexuality is 2 independent things. These LGBT like to mix things up.

If you are a man and enjoy fucking man through their ass or vice versa. It is illegal. The law will deal with you.
If you love the same sex, then we will not arrest you. Cos it is not a criminal to have love with same sex.


It can be more complicated than that.

Love between two adults will eventually lead to marriage...then same sex marriage will be another issue to handle.

Along with this, it is not just the recognition of the marriage then there is the HDB entitlement to married "couples" etc etc etc
 

myfoot123

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
In Singapore, I noticed quite a number of Gay people tend to be more vocal in social and politics issue. The gay, has more balls than straight people?
 

tanwahtiu

Alfrescian
Loyal
I say for office use, not in graphic.

If you not in full animation 8G ram is enough.

You moron use 16G for games maybe otherwise 8G is enough for blender animation.



If you expect 4G of RAM to be sufficient for modern day web/graphic design and digital editing you are an even bigger moron than I thought.

My computer has 16Gb of RAM and it still struggles when rendering large image files with multiple layers.

View attachment 47583
 

Hypocrite-The

Alfrescian
Loyal
It can be more complicated than that.

Love between two adults will eventually lead to marriage...then same sex marriage will be another issue to handle.

Along with this, it is not just the recognition of the marriage then there is the HDB entitlement to married "couples" etc etc etc

The worse thing is Married couples are allowed to adopt kids,,and in ang mor lands,,heaps of these faggots have adopt kids to abuse them. Homosexuality is an illness and an ill mentally disturbed person will have no qualms about raping kids,,,,these ang mors KPKB soo much about the catholic church and other denominations abusing kids,,,and yet they open the doors to these sickos to adopt,,,talk about shooting themselves in the foot
 

Hypocrite-The

Alfrescian
Loyal
It can be more complicated than that.

Love between two adults will eventually lead to marriage...then same sex marriage will be another issue to handle.

Along with this, it is not just the recognition of the marriage then there is the HDB entitlement to married "couples" etc etc etc

The worse thing is Married couples are allowed to adopt kids,,and in ang mor lands,,heaps of these faggots have adopt kids to abuse them. Homosexuality is an illness and an ill mentally disturbed person will have no qualms about raping kids,,,,these ang mors KPKB soo much about the catholic church and other denominations abusing kids,,,and yet they open the doors to these sickos to adopt,,,talk about shooting themselves in the foot
 

Hypocrite-The

Alfrescian
Loyal
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Section 377A: Public Prosecutor retains 'full prosecutorial discretion', says Attorney-General
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Section 377A: Public Prosecutor retains 'full prosecutorial discretion', says Attorney-General
Singapore
Section 377A: Public Prosecutor retains 'full prosecutorial discretion', says Attorney-General
image: data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAAAAACH5BAEKAAEALAAAAAABAAEAAAICTAEAOw==
Lucien Wong Attorney-General
Attorney-General Lucien Wong at the opening of Legal Year 2018 on Jan 8. (Photo: Nuria Ling/TODAY)
02 Oct 2018 08:04PM
(Updated: 02 Oct 2018 08:36PM)
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SINGAPORE: Singapore's Government has not removed prosecutorial discretion for Section 377A, and the Public Prosecutor retains "full prosecutorial discretion" with respect to this, Attorney-General Lucien Wong said in a media release on Tuesday (Oct 2).

Referring to recent comments made on the law by former attorneys-general Professor Walter Woon and Mr V K Rajah, Mr Wong said their comments could give an "inaccurate impression" of the exercise of the Public Prosecutor's discretion.

"Former attorneys-general, Professor Walter Woon and Mr V K Rajah, have recently suggested that it is not desirable for the Government and Parliament to direct the Public Prosecutor not to prosecute offences under Section 377A of the Penal Code, or to create the perception that they are doing so," said Mr Wong.

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"Such comments may give rise to the inaccurate impression that the exercise of the Public Prosecutor’s discretion has been removed or restricted in respect of Section 377A."

Section 377A of the Penal Code criminalises sex between men. The law has recently come into the spotlight, with calls to repeal it made by members of the "Ready4Repeal" movement as well as prominent figures such as veteran diplomat Professor Tommy Koh.

Mr Johnson Ong Ming, a 43-year-old disc jockey and producer, has also filed a court challenge against the law, saying that it is inconsistent with parts of the Constitution.

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Religious organisations have also called on the Government to retain the law.

READ: Not if but when 377A will be repealed, says Singapore movement against anti-gay law

READ: 'Antiquated' law 377A should be repealed: Tommy Koh

The discretion to institute, conduct or discontinue any proceedings for any offence is vested in the Attorney-General as the Public Prosecutor under Article 35(8) of the Constitution, said Mr Wong.

POLICE WILL INVESTIGATE IF REPORTS ARE LODGED

In exercising this discretion, the Public Prosecutor seeks "only to advance the public interest", taking into account "all the facts and circumstances of the case" and other matters such as the recommendations of the investigating agencies and the expressed intention of Parliament, he said.

"The Government’s position on Section 377A is that the police will not proactively enforce this provision, for instance by conducting enforcement raids," added Mr Wong.

However, he went on to say that if there are reports lodged of offences under Section 377A - for example, where minors are exploited and abused - the police will investigate.

After conducting investigations, the police will then decide whether there is sufficient basis to refer the case to the Public Prosecutor, said Mr Wong. It will then be for the Public Prosecutor to determine whether to prosecute.

"In doing so, the Public Prosecutor exercises his independent discretion on whether to charge the offender, solely on the basis of his assessment of the facts, the law, and the public interest," he said. "While the Public Prosecutor is entitled to consider public policies in exercising his discretion, these do not fetter the exercise of prosecutorial discretion."

The Attorney-General gave the example of a case in 2008 where someone had been charged under Section 377A after a police report was lodged by a 16-year old male who had oral sex with the suspect.

Citing then-Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Home Affairs Wong Kan Seng, Mr Wong said the case was referred to the Public Prosecutor, who "decided to charge the accused under Section 377A after taking into account all the facts and circumstances of the case, including the complainant's age and the fact that the offence had taken place in a public toilet".

Added Mr Wong: "The minister also made clear that: '… for any report disclosing an offence, police will place the evidence before the Public Prosecutor for a decision as to whether or not to proceed with prosecution.'"

The police's exercise of its enforcement or investigative powers "should therefore not be conflated or confused with the Public Prosecutor's exercise of discretion to commence prosecution", said the Attorney-General.

"The Public Prosecutor's exercise of prosecutorial discretion has always been, and remains, unfettered."

He added: "In the case of Section 377A, where the conduct in question was between two consenting adults in a private place, the Public Prosecutor had, absent other factors, taken the position that prosecution would not be in the public interest.

"This remains the position today."
Source: CNA/nc(hm)
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congo9

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Why you wants kids when you choose to be a Gay ?
If you are Gay, then you should not have kids, even if you adopt one.

Chances that with the gay value or lesbian value, they will cause the value to cuscade down from you to them. It will negatively impact the society.
 
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