Why did sg fail to move out of being a cheap factory in 80s?

[SIFU]

tonychatgay u haven't die yet??

dun talk cock here.. either u carry on pimping in thai, or go join the thai to protest in the streets.. :oIo:

 

[tommyh]

Dan:

Very well put. What do you see in the next 10 years?

Well said.



Dear angry one,


But there are other reasons too.
There was also a drive towards the knowledge economy and there was alot of money being pumped into R and D and Hi Tech parks.

Several problems exist. There is a creativity, and innovative gap no thanks to the route learning education system we have.

Now, the truth is, given a small population base like ours, talents are hard to come by true ?

WRONG. Tons of Singaporeans who are talented have migrated to other countries, and have done so successfully to every part of the world. Singaporeans success overseas are quickly mocked by the STATE media and our then PM, Goh coin the word, "quitters" to describe them. Which is strange. You don't mock the people you are trying to invite to your house.

The high irony of it all, is that by then our PM Goh, his own daughter, married a foriegner and have decided to move out of Singapore. Even the wedding dinner in Singapore was a hush up affair. Talk about walking your own talk, and have we ever heard our PM then calling her own daughter a quitter ?

Coming back, our brain drain increase at an accelarating phase, it was then decided the PAPies should mend the gaps, Singapore begin to embark on a massive talent attraction program to lure in the great talents. Truth is, none of the great talents came and set roost here. Instead, scores of untalented second grade "workers" came instead. Temasek, DBS and NOL overnight decides to embark on a campaign to attract angmo CEOs. They came, they saw, they puke and they left. Many reasons were cited, but these Angmo CEOs are paid a hefty sum of money before the golden handshakes are given. In actual fact, it was paid to them so that they would not have to reveal too much about their unhappiness.

Words and speculations out is that they find Temasek's culture to be exceedingly weird. The Dowager and the King are unrealistic in their approach to many business dealings and the changes they wanted to institute were against the grain of "family" business models. I have no idea what that means but transalated it means clearly, they would prefer that free market principles be observed and that is not achieveable in a structure where the elites are virtually garunteed a position in the company and that they are untouchables.

Finally, the top creative talents that did eventually came here, find Singaporea to be a barren and sterile place where creativity was stifled because the freedom of expression were scoffed upon. No matter how the PAPies denies it, freedom of expression is the first condition needed to encourage the spirit of enterprise, and creativity. Thats one of the standing pillars of sowing entrepreneurship. Is this lacking in Singapore ? Well you be the judge.

Next, now certainly, the PAPies did try to lure our talents back but failed miseably prompting several announcements by our MIWS to relax various restrictions on our entertainment scence etc like the film ratings for starters. Vivian and Wong Can't Sing did finally allow for bar top dancings and even the old man was saying that he would like to see that several places in Singapore be allowed to be "pockets of Bohemia". Those are his words not mine. Still, as long as there is an state sponsored media, draconian laws, and strict controls all around, Singapore by then have been leap frog by other nations who are also in the talent hunt. Dubai, London, Shanghai, Beijing remain the most favoured destinations for these talents.

Which lead us to the present crap we have now. Notice the PAPies have all stop using the word, "Knowledge" economy. Meaning to say, there was a failure in their execution.

By this time round, the MIWs then change course, and decide to go for the "HUB" strategy which lead us to the opening of the IRs etc and other expensive tourist draws to try to stimulate the economy.

Pardon me, this have been really brief, but that was my intention. This post is based upon my personal recollection and certainly, they are at best opinions, at worse, I hope its worthy of your readings.

Cheers.

Dan

 

[tonychat]

what does sinkies know about knowledge economy, they only know how to apply vaseoline and listen to orders and instructions.

Knowledge economy is about creativity and not about bending down and getting screwed.

 

[Papsmearer]

I also suspect it's partly due to sinkee's lack of enterprise and talent - but you don't need to be that talented to be a high-tech manufacturing worker. You just need to train hard. And for this, sinkees are actually good as mastering complex, quantitative skills like programming, craft...etc.

I think that you still do not understand. S'poreans are not inherently lacking in enterprise and talent. They do have it. But the PAP has done many things to whack it down and to discourage it. Obviously, starting with NS as a brainwashing tool. If you are too enterprising and start making big money, the PAP wants to get into that business too. In addition, monopolistic policies prevent enterprising and talented people from opening newspapers, airlines, TV stations, radio stations, etc. Where as in other countries, enterprising people are encouraged, its not the same here. Enterprising and talented people fail many times before they ultimately succeed. but failure is discouraged and punished in S'pore. Li Ka Shing himself admitted he went bankrupt half a dozen times before he made it big. If he was in S'pore he would have been barred from any directorship in a company after the 3rd time and would never have succeeded. u fail to realise that at heart, the PAP is a very socialistic political party and borderline communistic. Kuan Yew and the founders were influenced in the UK at a time when the UK unis were heavily sympathetic to socialism and communism. To this day, the PAP has a a secretary general, a central committee, and refer to each other as comrades. My question to you is that in which heavily socialistic society is enterprise and talent appreciated.

 

[newyorker88]

indeed, S'pore's economy is going backwards. This is really inevitable when an economy like singapore's is centrally planned by bureaucrats who have no experience and insufficient knowledge. There are many reasons for this, but as far as I know, the situation became like this.


I am going to end here as i have been blabbering on. but these are just some ideas.

I will continue for you.

Singapore is would have been better if the govenment keeps their hands off BUSINESS. If they would have just focus on keeping and maintaining law and order, and let business run on its own, many would have come here to settle down and create many more jobs, a brand about singapore.

The so called posting of SCHOLARS and GENERALS from SAF, to important post in GLCs serve no use in helping the country. GENERALS are used to their careers in ARMY and could not use their experience in MNCs without years of business knowledge.

GLC funds is not a bad idea but should be best left to institutions to run, not some APPOINTED generals. GLC starved off many local SMEs and monoploise many business. Name a business that they are not in nowdays. Maybe only world's oldest proffession.

Being a small nation, diplomacy is the best, and yet, LKY would not know when to keep his mouth shut. In 1998, when Habibie was up a president of indonesia, he should not hint that he will not last long.

Lee Jr also another big mouth, always making stupid remarks that almost invited trouble. His famous Mee Siam Hai hum is also another joke. Shows how he is out of touch with common people.

After his brush with cancer, he should stay out of politics and live his life quietly, for stress is known to cause cancer to relaspe. Instead, he chose to be PM and would " fix the oppositions". Shows how low the quality of top leaders in singapore.

Back to singapore economy.

With all the losses and dangers facing singapore now. Here are some recommandations to follow upon.


1) reduce the GST. This will ease the people burden and help tthe economy to recover faster. However, the govenment would not want this becos they need the money to cover the losses UNDECLARED.

2) Give incentives and invite more R & D companies to come to singapore. This will give singapore a better branding, or create an enviroment where R & D is a common place in singapore.

3) Relax laws on FTs WHO ARE GOOD, CREDIBLE, not some FTs who are here to work in food courts.

4) Reduce the cost of HDB flats. I still remember in the 1990s, when degree holders in USA challenge LKY, that in USA, they had to work all their life to pay off a HDB flat.

5) NS men should have more benefits than what is given to them now. All males will understand how disadvantaged they are, in the workforce and in education. When they have to serve 2 1/2 years and 10 more years or more of Reservist. They lose out to FTs and woman, which in turn stun locals for many other reasons.

6) Abled minsters are not picked by scholarships, but by merits of what they have done. Abled people are not yes person and dare to challenge the wrong views of the leader. So far, all the ministers, which one dare to say no? Even the opposition are just as good as yes man. JBJ who dares to speak out is gone. He still lives in minds of those who loves songapore.

And the list can go on, but just fall on deaf ears.

These points have been talked about many times, and the top people are just too engrossed in their good life and like to listen to the PO LAN PAH idiots up there.

 

[Guojing]

Lily Rahim wrote this article several years back and I think you will find an excellent explanation here

http://unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/APCITY/UNPAN004078.pdf

Short summary for the tldr crowd
PAP wants to maintain political control so the current system of MNCs and GLCs is best for it.

 

[madmansg]

the competition of GLC is just excuse and place too much importance to them. True bizmen dont scare compettion as the world is their market and GLC dont matter. However true bizmen very scare of NS and SAF. THat is why bill gates , dell run away from univeirsity as they even regard University like NS must go tranining in the classrooms.

 

[pia]

The Govt wanted instant gratification.. quick results. What better way than to be a "sweatshop" for western MNCs. Furthermore, for the same reason, they monopolise all the possible trades thru their GLCs to add. They govern this country like a western MNC as well, where the quarterly and annual financial reports are a testimony of their "success"

If they were less intent on quick money and more patient in letting the local talents develop by adopting a pro-entrepreneur approach, we might not have the fantastic "growth" of the 80s and 90s, but today, we may be able to stand on our own, with a pool of local successful businesses.

Today, they gripe about the lack of local entrepreneurs, which is of their own doing. And open the doors to an influx of foreigners not only for businesses but for our jobs, condemning the local populace to a deeper abyss.

I only fear that the damage is long done and irreversible. It'll take a major CHANGE and a long time before things look positive again.:(

 

[Leegimeremover]

I think that you still do not understand. S'poreans are not inherently lacking in enterprise and talent. They do have it. But the PAP has done many things to whack it down and to discourage it. Obviously, starting with NS as a brainwashing tool. If you are too enterprising and start making big money, the PAP wants to get into that business too. In addition, monopolistic policies prevent enterprising and talented people from opening newspapers, airlines, TV stations, radio stations, etc. Where as in other countries, enterprising people are encouraged, its not the same here. Enterprising and talented people fail many times before they ultimately succeed. but failure is discouraged and punished in S'pore. Li Ka Shing himself admitted he went bankrupt half a dozen times before he made it big. If he was in S'pore he would have been barred from any directorship in a company after the 3rd time and would never have succeeded. u fail to realise that at heart, the PAP is a very socialistic political party and borderline communistic. Kuan Yew and the founders were influenced in the UK at a time when the UK unis were heavily sympathetic to socialism and communism. To this day, the PAP has a a secretary general, a central committee, and refer to each other as comrades. My question to you is that in which heavily socialistic society is enterprise and talent appreciated.

Like I said b4, the biggest communist chauvinist pig is LKY, not TLH.

 

[johnny333]

I also suspect it's partly due to sinkee's lack of enterprise and talent - but you don't need to be that talented to be a high-tech manufacturing worker. You just need to train hard. And for this, sinkees are actually good as mastering complex, quantitative skills like programming, craft...etc.

PAP don't want to waste resources to train local peasants lah. All the elites are sent to overseas universities. Even LKYs grandson is going to the American School because Spore schools are lacking.

Cheaper to import foreign trained.

It doesn't pay for Sporeans to remain in Spore. Gov't takes them for granted

 

[angry_one]

Another hidden reason for govt to meddle in all commercial affairs is control. If they leave the commercial sector to private hands, they're afraid that rebellious business owners will threaten the PAP by suspending business and crippling the country in days if they want to push for a policy.

 

[madmansg]

me think just poor excuse when say govt interfere this interfere that !! If scare of govt compettion then dont be enterpeneur lar. Just be worker or NS slaves forever.

 

[The_Latest_H]

What will happen to SG in 10 years if no action is taken?

- Pretty much what the effects of such selfish policies will be. Its good politics, but not good policy, and the country would probably be in a worse position than now, competitively.

- Singaporeans' individual and collective talents, prospects, life will go nowhere. And they will be poorer in comparison to their overseas counterparts and to S'poreans who have moved overseas.

- Singapore will surely lurch from one industry to another in a very incoherent fashion, with little or no economical sense. The IRs and Flyer are just the start.

- We will see what will happen when third-rate FTs, not first-rated FTs totally saturate the market, distort the local employment/unemployment and depress wage levels. Not to mention, inflation will also, unsurprisingly, be negatively affected.

- Bright side is that if LHL continues on this path, he's creating his own self-destructive path of losing power. Singaporeans are not stupid. As long as more and more become more well-informed despite the worst of selfish actions by the PAP, the PAP might lose power someday.

 

[DIVISION1]

The PAP never failed on its policy. It is the picky citizens who unfortunately failed Singapore. Another tragedy not the fault of our great leaders.

 

[The_Latest_H]

The PAP never failed on its policy. It is the picky citizens who unfortunately failed Singapore. Another tragedy not the fault of our great leaders.

If the gamble fails, blame the people. if the gamble succeeds, they take away all the credit. I didn't know they learned that when they were in school...

 

[2lanu]

I never like the fact that sg's economic policy is still about being a cheap manufacturing base. It suppresses wages and makes life miserable.

My thought was that the white scum had
1)invested quite a lot and had not get back what invested.
2)They might be holding manufacturing pie to beef up vol at the port and air cargo. Making it create regional hub.
3) Though this is manufacturing meat do not have too meat left, it still able to provide some food to solve hunger.

 

[Dan Now]

Part 2 of reply.

Back to Singapore. I certainly have no idea what is going to happen in the next ten years. Its pretty bleak actually. One thing for sure, that I hope the Cheng Hu will adress is this.

That Singaporean employment now must come first and that MOM must stop the indiscriminate issuing of Work permits, PR and Citizenships and go for a Singaporean first policy for employment security sake.

In the coming 5 years, I wonder about how our employment market would be like for our kids who are coming out of Poly, Uni etc. I am not even going to look into the discrimination of the work place for our elderly Singaporeans. DBS and NOL have fired the first shot and went ahead with its retrenchment in a blitzkreig without ANY CONSULTATION or hint. We will see that this is only the begining of the trend as we know full well, that many retrenchment is coming online next year for plenty of Singaporeans.

It is a shame that our GLC companies are leading the charge. Have it not been the looming elections that would be heading our way, these hard measures to lay off Singaporeans would be done even before you can say the words "Merry X'mas".
We'll see. And Good luck.. in such hard times.

Dan

 

[Dan Now]

Part 1 of reply.

Dear Tommy,

Thanks for the compliment.

Certainly, I think the world is trying to find its footing and Singapore being inextricably linked to the global stage, will be floundering for quite a numbers of years to come.
Presently the IR model and hub growth strategies are grinding at a snail pace. Perhaps due to the sudden meltdown of the global finiancial systems, the whole model of economic growth stimuli package stimulus validity is called into question. We are looking at the wealthiest folks who have a substantial amount of wealth that have been sheared off.
Alot of government is currently looking at the Keynesian models as a way forward which emphasize massive government investment into infrastructures spending etc to stimulate growth. Even this model won't work for very long as it requires hard reserves or taxation measures to boost it thru.

The long and short of it is consumer confidence in spending thier money and to put employment stability into the market by having the government going headon to work out schemes to do so. Then there is also the issue of sudden deflation that would throw a spanner into the works. Its really a headache.
Since debate by our parliamentarians are non existent in Singapore, let me offer you snippets of what the UK government is trying to do.

Check out the following articles.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7732871.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7744707.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7740259.stm

Now this is a very interesting article dated 2007 before all the meltdown occurs. Notice that a collective action plan was recommended to get us out of the dire straits is needed from all the governments in the world. Now we all know that is not going to happen or it would take many more years before it materialise.
http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2007/0413globalgovernance_rogoff.aspx?rssid=rogoffk

For your reading and reference

Cheers.

 

[Nice-Gook]

My question was specifically: if Switzerland and Japan etc can continue to become manufacturing bases while paying 1st world wages, why does sg need to continue getting cheap workers and compete on price? But that has been answered partially.

I also suspect it's partly due to sinkee's lack of enterprise and talent - but you don't need to be that talented to be a high-tech manufacturing worker. You just need to train hard. And for this, sinkees are actually good as mastering complex, quantitative skills like programming, craft...etc.

<style></style>Here is my 2 cents worth.Singapore should be left to be Singapore.Not little Switzerland nor little China.Stamford Raffles knew better.That's why he chose Singapore over Batavia(Jakarta).

What LKY attempted was to transplant or rather copy the successes of other countries into Singapore.In short playing god.It failed.Its akin to growing apples in a tropical climate.What I indeed is saying is if Singapore is best suited to grow durians than that should have been our focus.

And talking of talents.I am reminded where the ass-hole shut down its function to prove its point that it indeed is the lord of the body and not the brain.That talents exists in a vacuum is a fallacy my friend.

 

[Nice-Gook]

Another hidden reason for govt to meddle in all commercial affairs is control. If they leave the commercial sector to private hands, they're afraid that rebellious business owners will threaten the PAP by suspending business and crippling the country in days if they want to push for a policy.

That answered your question,right?Its all about control.The very reason why such a noble ideal like communism failed.I am not advocating a lairize affair scenario for Singapore.But you cannot grow a plant by pouring hot water either