When Was The Last Time China Kicked Redhaired Ass?

[Sideswipe]

The North Korean start the war, China wasn't invovled till the UN and US has push the North Korean to the brink of losing what they have before.
China step in only when the UN and US are at their border and got push back all the way to before thing become stalemate at the DMZ

Back then, Stalin, Mao and Kim all agreed on communism expansion by invading South Korea and Taiwan. It was a matter of priority, who first? Stalin decided on South Korea, the easier target after he was misfed with reports that US military was in Taiwan.

In 1950, CCP sent back 80K Korean ethnic PLA soldiers who fought against KMT in Chinese civil war back to North Korea at Kim's request. By doing so, Mao was an accomplice in the start of the Korean war. Official CCP history has denied they knew about North Korea invasion in advance.

 

[chuckyworld]

NK & PRC did reach and sack Seoul. However, it was over extension of power unsustainable as Gen. MacArthur spotted it. Their weak point was (lack of) naval power. The US Incheon landing outflanked and cut their supply lines, forcing them into hasty retreat. MacArthur chased them all the way to Yalu River but there, naval power became useless. It became straight fight on land and river (river is not sea, nothing to do with navy). Mao Zedong threatened a full mobilisation of PLA and swore no US troops shall cross Yalu alive. MacArthur proposed using nukes. He was sacked. NK & PRC chased SK and USA (so-called UN) back to the 38th Parallel, where a ceasefire and an DMZ was agreed upon.

Technically and officially, it was still a draw.

You missing the point.

Did the PLA push back the combine armies of UN and US from Yalu river to the DMZ.

 

[Ramseth]

You missing the point.

Did the PLA push back the combine armies of UN and US from Yalu river to the DMZ.

Where got miss? I said so in my earlier post already. However, it was a draw because the original NK war objective as supported by PRC was to reunite Korea as one. Unlike in Vietnam War later, that wasn't achieved.

 

[Sideswipe]

MacArthur proposed using nukes. He was sacked.

MacArthur was sacked by communists stooges ( Acheson and Marshall ) because he wanted to unleash Chiang Kai Shek forces back to the mainland, making it a full-blown war against CCP in China and Korea simultaneously. That was against Truman limited war policy.

MacArthur books revealed. he believed that he was removed by Russians agents inside US white house and state department.

 

[chuckyworld]

Where got miss? I said so in my earlier post already. However, it was a draw because the original NK war objective as supported by PRC was to reunite Korea as one. Unlike in Vietnam War later, that wasn't achieved.

Your thread title was, Re: When Was The Last Time China Kicked Redhaired Ass?

Did the combine armies of UN and US gotten pushed back after nearly gaining control of North Korea?

The question here is did they not push the combine armies back, if that does not count as kicking ass what does?

The rest is just as what is written in History officially by Ang Moh historian.

 

[Ramseth]

The question here is did they not push the combine armies back, if that does not count as kicking ass what does?

If you please, if you insist, why not?

 

[Sideswipe]

Did the combine armies of UN and US gotten pushed back after nearly gaining control of North Korea?
The question here is did they not push the combine armies back, if that does not count as kicking ass what does?
The rest is just as what is written in History officially by Ang Moh historian.

Russians armed CCP/NK forces and Soviet warplanes provided air cover in the war.
Ir was a North Korea / China / Soviet Union war.

 

[chuckyworld]

Even if you said they are supply by Russian, they are still getting old equipments.

KMT lost China is due to corruption within the rank and files, Communist won was due to the fact the peoples (peasants have had enough of being force slaves.)

Communist are not good but they are lesser of the 2 evil compare with KMT during that period in time. i have 2 grand uncles, 1 serving with KMT the other with CCP, the CCP was Assassinated.

Back to the war, given to what you said, US and the UN has still the most advance equipments.

It is the moral and the belief of what they are fighting for.

Mcdodo got outfox by the chinese, period.

Anyway it is the past peoples do learnt from mistake.

It is better to admit a mistake than try to pretend everything is fine.

 

[chuckyworld]

It is not what i Insist or Please did it not HAPPEN at all?, it is what has happen, and not make believe period

 

[Sideswipe]

Even if you said they are supply by Russian, they are still getting old equipments.
KMT lost China is due to corruption within the rank and files, Communist won was due to the fact the peoples (peasants have had enough of being force slaves.)
Communist are not good but they are lesser of the 2 evil compare with KMT during that period in time.
Back to the war, given to what you said, US and the UN has still the most advance equipments.
It is the moral and the belief of what they are fighting for.

Soviet involvement in Korean war.
http://www.oah.org/pubs/magazine/korea/oneill.html
The Korean war was a Russo-American proxy war, the majority of fighting done by their proxies - North Korea, PRC and South Korea.

China economy was in ruins after WW2 leading to social disorder and resulted in peasants switching support to CCP. China inflation from 1947-49 that caused the economy to collapse was the sabotage of communist agent Ji Chaoding, Finance Minister H. H. Kung secretary who planned KMT's disastrous monetary policy.
That's how KMT lost peasants support ( Chinese communists sabotage inside govt )
http://www.conservapedia.com/Chi_Chao-ting

 

[hokkienpeng]

You missing the point.

Did the PLA push back the combine armies of UN and US from Yalu river to the DMZ.

China lost the Korean War against the US, plain and simple.

China sent a total of 926,000 troops into the Korean War and lost 400,000 (KIA).

US sent in a total of 480,000 troops and lost 36,516 (the US is of course much more precise in keeping track of the number of deaths).

China had an initial upper hand when it just entered the war simply because it was willing to take insanely heavy casualties in order to gain ground. But even so, whatever upper hand soon evaporated against the much better equipped, organized, and trained US marines.

Nevertheless, if your knowledge of the Korean war is based on stories from Chinese military magazines or communist propaganda books or patriotic Ah Pehs in Chinatown, then you would get a very different picture. All you hear about would be the bravery of the Chinese suicide bombers and the amazing talents of the PLA generals; all the stories would be about the initial tactical victories; you would have the impression that China won and either reluctantly or magnanimously agreed to an armistice. These are of course just communist propaganda manufactured to hoodwink a nation of peasants.

 

[Ramseth]

China lost the Korean War against the US, plain and simple.

China sent a total of 926,000 troops into the Korean War and lost 400,000 (KIA).

US sent in a total of 480,000 troops and lost 36,516 (the US is of course much more precise in keeping track of the number of deaths).

War results are measured by results (terrorities gained or defended, opponents subdued or fled) not by casualties. If measured by casualties, USSR and ROC would be the two biggest losers in WW2. USA wiped out one third of Vietnamese male population in the Vietnam War. If the war objective was genocide or population control, then maybe they'd won. From the other side, the Vietnam side point of view, it was to defend Vietnam as a communist state to the last man and kick US troops out. They won, regardless of casualties and costs. In the Korean War, it was a draw.

You think only Japanese got kamikaze pilots and Arabs got suicide bombers? KMT also had in the Wuchang uprising for assasinating Qing royalties and officials, and PLA also had in the Korean War. That was one of causes of the high casualties. PLA without advanced anti-tank weaponry, used bomb-strapped soldiers to rush at US tanks to stop them.

 

[Sideswipe]

War results are measured by results (terrorities gained or defended, opponents subdued or fled) not by casualties. If measured by casualties, USSR and ROC would be the two biggest losers in WW2. They won, regardless of casualties and costs. In the Korean War, it was a draw.

look at the wider context, the background and result of the war.
PRC indeed kicked American ass in some battles but what were the costs and consequences.
Why did PRC enter the war?, to defend against American imperialism (officially claimed) or blackmailed by Stalin to fight in return for Soviet military and economic aid.

Korean war was officially a draw. North Korea fought to take over the whole country, South Korea fought for their survival, USA and Russia fought for world domination, What was PRC fighting for?

 

[Ramseth]

look at the wider context, the background and result of the war.
PRC indeed kicked American ass in some battles but what were the costs and consequences.
Why did PRC enter the war?, to defend against American imperialism (officially claimed) or blackmailed by Stalin to fight in return for Soviet military and economic aid.

Kicking some asses in some interim battles of a war doesn't amount to really kicking asses as in a full retreat or a full surrender. For example, the British surrender of Malaya and Singapore to the Japanese count as a real kick ass victory for the Japanese though they eventually lost the whole war. Qing Dynasty China scored a surprise victory in battle against the French too, but ultimately lost again with Shanghai leasehold concession.

The Ming Dynasty victory over the Dutch in Taiwan was a conclusive kick ass victory. They really kicked the Dutch back to Holland with tails between legs.

Korean war was officially a draw. North Korea fought to take over the whole country, South Korea fought for their survival, USA and Russia fought for world domination, What was PRC fighting for?

USA got more ambitious and took that opportunity of North Korean offensive as reverse pretext to reunite the whole Korea under their influence. If NK lost, US troops would be at Yalu River gateway to China. Chiang Kai-shek had declared support for SK and standing by troops to land in Korea. You go figure what's next? Of course an ROC counter attack on mainland. How could PRC allow that? Of course they had fight to alongside NK to prevent that. Would that be a good thing for USSR? Of course not, of course they'd supply all the arms to ward off US and SK.

 

[hokkienpeng]

China didn't gain an additional inch of soil for North Korea while incurring 10 times the casualty rate of its opponent, I say it lost big time.

And seeing how North Korea turned out to be such a big pain-in-the-ass today, China did everyone (especially North Koreans) a great disservice by defending Kim Il-Sung's lunatic regime.

The world would be a better place and the North Koreans a happier people had China lost the entire Korean peninsula to the West. Your Samsung cellphone and Hyundai sedan would cost half as much with the manufacturing capacity of a unified Korea (and without the South wasting capacity on humanitarian grain exports for their famished Northern brethren).

 

[Royalblood]

At last, there are people here will can see through the deception that non-white Asians can ever equal white caucasians! Not to worry, the time will surely come when the East will be recolonised. There are many who are hankering for it, both in the West and East. It is inherently hard-wired into non-white Asians to serve the white man. This need can only be fulfilled through being conquered and colonised. Non-white asians taking charge of their own country will only lead to disaster eventually. All this talk about Asia rising and being proud of one's culture, heritage and ethnicity is rubbish. It is much better for non-white Asians to cast aside their culture and heritage, put down their own ethnicity as much as possible, and adopt all things Western. The only time they should display their culture and ethnicity is for the white man's interest. Singapore is a perfect example.

123456787654321 is a loser piece of white trash still living in the 19th century, and refusing to believe in the waning influence of his barbarian ancestors.

Get a reality check and look at how crazily fast the Asian sphere of influence is spreading around the world and how the muslim fundamentalists are fucking up western countries and economies as the day goes by!

The day will come when western men are despised sold as slaves, western women become cocubine/ whores for non-whites and muslim will overrun Europe/ North America and carve out the continents among themselves. You know, just like all the nasty shit the western imperialist did to the rest of the world in 19th century.

History follows a trend, and the table does turn in favour of others once in a while! Then we shall see Asianized western people displaying their culture and ethnicity solely for the fancies of Asian people!

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

At last, there are people here will can see through the deception that non-white Asians can ever equal white caucasians! Not to worry, the time will surely come when the East will be recolonised. There are many who are hankering for it, both in the West and East. It is inherently hard-wired into non-white Asians to serve the white man. This need can only be fulfilled through being conquered and colonised. Non-white asians taking charge of their own country will only lead to disaster eventually. All this talk about Asia rising and being proud of one's culture, heritage and ethnicity is rubbish. It is much better for non-white Asians to cast aside their culture and heritage, put down their own ethnicity as much as possible, and adopt all things Western. The only time they should display their culture and ethnicity is for the white man's interest. Singapore is a perfect example.

i rightfully concur.

 

[Sideswipe]

USA got more ambitious and took that opportunity of North Korean offensive as reverse pretext to reunite the whole Korea under their influence. If NK lost, US troops would be at Yalu River gateway to China. Chiang Kai-shek had declared support for SK and standing by troops to land in Korea. You go figure what's next? Of course an ROC counter attack on mainland. How could PRC allow that? Of course they had fight to alongside NK to prevent that. Would that be a good thing for USSR? Of course not, of course they'd supply all the arms to ward off US and SK.

USA wouldn't support a ROC counterattack on mainland.
agree with you that a North Korea total defeat was a bad scenario for PRC, Mao not wanting a US friendly unified Korea at their border was also an important factor in entering the war.

 

[Ramseth]

USA wouldn't support a ROC counterattack on mainland.
agree with you that a North Korea total defeat was a bad scenario for PRC, Mao not wanting a US friendly unified Korea at their border was also an important factor in entering the war.

Exactly, that's why Truman sacked MacArthur (who's all out for total victory) and settled at 38th Parallel DMZ to maintain status quo. MacArthur was a general. Truman was a politcian. Chiang was both a politician and a general trying to capitalise on the opportunity of the moment, but Truman wouldn't let him.

 

[Kid278]

Exactly, that's why Truman sacked MacArthur (who's all out for total victory) and settled at 38th Parallel DMZ to maintain status quo. MacArthur was a general. Truman was a politcian. Chiang was both a politician and a general trying to capitalise on the opportunity of the moment, but Truman wouldn't let him.

Unfortunately that turn of historical events left behind an Axis of Evil that the world may one day seriously regret.