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What's with the fucking anti TJS posts?

scroobal

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Someone should sit beside TCB and have a good chat about his "lacklustre" performance especially during media broadcast. Especially after he has indicated that he is still keen to have a piece of the action. Ptader is meeting him and he is doing, others should do as well. I am sending him a note. This is politics, not a charity appeal or a church gathering. His expo ran along the lines of Harvest Church where you see people in wheelchairs on stage to help loosen the purse strings.
do u regret asking pple to switch votes fm TCB to TJS?...sorry but had to ask this Q bro...like it or not...i think what that chap Brandon has written in here makes sense...personally speaking looks like i made a mistake n let my gut speak agst Harry's EP creation rather than go for 'the make sure TT does not get in' strategy...wrong move on my part but TCB did not help either by running an apparenbt lacklustre campaign...
 

PTADER

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Good point. I'm alright with people voting TJS because they feel he represented the people more, is a better person or finds the top 2 equally PAP. But expressing no regret is enough. Don't have to come up with funny justifications. Including TJS himself.

Not trying to justify and there is no need to. I am merely pointing out what should be obvious. I've posted this (see below). Cheers.

What if the PAP TT supporters had demanded that TCB not contest because he was a member of the PAP, had benefited (and still continues) from being a PAP member and hence, should not be ungrateful to the party and "split" the PAP votes?

After all, TCB was a PAP member for 27 years, PAP Central Executive for 10 years and continued to be a PAP member until he resigned from the PAP in May 2011 to contest the election.

Would TCB then have an obligation to stand aside for Phony? Should his supporters have an obligation to cast a vote for Phony had TCB stepped aside if demanded by the PAP?

What if a blame-TCB crowd emerge from the PAP condemning TCB for Phony's pathetic performance? Would that be justified?

The reality is this:

TJS and TKL have zero obligation to stand aside for TCB.

TCB and TJS have zero obligations to stand aside for TKL.

TCB, likewise, has zero obligation to stand aside for TJS and TKL. Neither does he have any obligation to stand aside for Phony if he had been asked.

Bro, no point being a sore loser. As the wise saying goes, be magnaminous in victory and be gracious in defeat.

Time for the blame-TJS crowd to be gracious. Accept TCB's loss (as I myself have done so) and move on.

Cheers.
 

Perspective

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Not trying to justify and there is no need to. I am merely pointing out what should be obvious. I've posted this (see below). Cheers.

Ok, maybe it's not so much about you. Some of the justifications were a bit ridiculous. TJS's own justification was the worst.
 

wwabbit

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Asset
I think there is an obligation to withdraw if you know that you have no chance, and if you know that withdrawing will help your preferred candidate. By not withdrawing, they (TKL and TJS) either:

1. Think they genuinely had a chance of winning.
2. Preferred TT over TCB to win
3. Using the PE to raise their own profile and don't care about the result
4. Complete blurfuck

I think everyone will have different opinions which one it is.
 

scroobal

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Excellent summary. Where were you bro while this forum was puttering along for the last 11 years.
I think there is an obligation to withdraw if you know that you have no chance, and if you know that withdrawing will help your preferred candidate. By not withdrawing, they (TKL and TJS) either:1. Think they genuinely had a chance of winning.2. Preferred TT over TCB to win3. Using the PE to raise their own profile and don't care about the result4. Complete blurfuckI think everyone will have different opinions which one it is.
 
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jeesus

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TCB's supporters should also look at themselves and ask if they have done enough. It is silly that after the election results are out, TCB's facebook "likes" shot over 20k well over TJS' 13k, while for weeks before the election, even during the campaign week, TCB was consistently behind by the hundreds.

Out of TJS's pool of voters, there was a portion (the "anyone but tony not necessarily pro-tjs" portion) that was swinging between TCB and TJS, and this group was trying to figure out who had a better chance at beating TT. There were no indication to the voters that TCB would achieve such good scores.

TCB lost due to a weak outreach and the lack of any convincing message.

The fact is that TJS's message appealed to 25% of the voters. TCB's message appealed to 10% of the anti-PAP voters. It is the responsibility of the candidates to reach out and convince voters. This is what campaigning is about. But TCB fought too principled a war, as he admitted himself, he refused to touch on certain issues that his team urged him to.

Collectively, TT and TCB garnered 70% of the votes, 10% more than the 60% PAP got in the GE. TCB only managed to convince 10% of the anti-PAP voters. In other words, he managed to shift only 25% from TT. What if less anti-PAP voters had voted for TCB? What would have been the results if TCB only shifted 5% of the opposition support? TT 35%, TCB 30%, TJS 30% - would it still be fair to say TJS should not have participated? What if TCB had managed to shift more votes from TT and less from TJS? TT 34%. TCB 26%, TJS 35%.

We placed a bet, we lost the bet.

Remember that in 1993, JBJ wanted to run but was disqualified. It could have been a 3 way fight then too. JBJ if allowed to run would have been publicised as a very confrontational figure too. The fact is over the years singaporeans have been domesticated and lost their fighting spirits, so much so that they expect change but do not expect policies to be challenged.

Now, don't even get into whether TJS is a suitable candidate. He probably has his own motives. But so does TCB, TT, or TKL. Politicians all have their motives, be it for the money, ego, fame or power (including power to hide one's own wrongdoings). But he is definitely more popular than TKL. If anyone should have withdrawn, it should have been TKL.

Voters should stop blaming alternative politicians in any election aftermath. Hindsight is always 20/20. Don't criticise unless you are willing to stand up for election yourself. It is easy to leave the fighting to others and then try to be a commentator and basher afterwards (exceptions apply - stubborn GMS and TKL really deserve the bashings).
 

LeMans2011

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One of the major problem we have in Singapore is LKY and his thugs' tremendous success in emasculating and domesticating Singaporeans. We now have an electorate that is so emasculated and domesticated that even a simple challenge of ideas or robust exchange - which is par for the course in any democracy, Western or Asian - are seen by Singaporeans and even opposition political parties here as being negatively "confrontational", "aggressive", "combative" etc. Such traits, which again are par for the course in Western and Asian democracies and is in fact, seen as positive as it indicates passion, commitment and conviction, has been made out by LKY and his thugs to be negative, not in line with "Asian values", "Confucian values", "Chinese values", etc. The tragedy is that he has successfully convinced the electorate of this.

You are so right... this is a point which TCB an MP of many years understood, which TJS did not.
I viewed many different interview clips in yahoo, TOC and none of them give me the TJS is hot-headed.
But as you rightly pointed out, many of my colleagues feel that way. Many felt that his 25% support came from SDP... but i think it is likely to be a mixed of SDP and WP.
 
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PTADER

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do u regret asking pple to switch votes fm TCB to TJS?...sorry but had to ask this Q bro...

I think CB would make an an excellent "unifying" President which is what I think Singapore needs. Definitely better than TJS or Phony for that matter. As an "executive" President to check on the Government, maybe "average to good" but not excellent.

But if you look at his campaign, he did come across as what Alex Au put bluntly, "standing for nothing". He appeared to lack vibrancy and drive. Maybe he was just tired.

I will say I am disappointed and it pains me that he did not make it. But the opportunity was too good a chance to pass up. Hence, I can't say I regret it.

At the very least, it sends a message to the opposition that theirs is not a lost cause. More importantly, it sends a message to those currently waiting in the wings that joining the opposition is not a lost cause and a waste of time. If TJS had secured 5%, I think you will see those waiting in the wings stepping back because not many are prepared to slog it out without any hope of succeeding.

Bro, now that I've answered your question, will you and everyone reading this thread please do me a favour?

Please stand up, strike your clenched fist against your heart, hold it there and let's solemnly pledge to bear true faith and allegiance to President Tony, our 35% President.
 

wwabbit

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
TCB's supporters should also look at themselves and ask if they have done enough. It is silly that after the election results are out, TCB's facebook "likes" shot over 20k well over TJS' 13k, while for weeks before the election, even during the campaign week, TCB was consistently behind by the hundreds.

Out of TJS's pool of voters, there was a portion (the "anyone but tony not necessarily pro-tjs" portion) that was swinging between TCB and TJS, and this group was trying to figure out who had a better chance at beating TT. There were no indication to the voters that TCB would achieve such good scores.

TCB lost due to a weak outreach and the lack of any convincing message.

You are forgetting that by trying to reach out to more centrist-left people, he risks alienating the centrist-right, and there are more centrist-right than centrist-left. In an election, you can't take every possible position and hope to get voters from all positions. In this case TCB is taking the centrist position which was worth about 40% of the votes... he was really competing against the other centrist candidate that took 5% out of that 40%.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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to me TCB's peformance during the 9 day period was tepid...but i must say his 2nd broadcast on fri night did bring back some allure, including his reference to his wife...made me reflect again on whether to change tack once again n vote for him as was my original intention prior to the 9 day period...unfortunately my gut instinct overruled as i still tot TT wld win quite easily(not 50plus% but at least high 40plus%) so went wif the 'heart' instead...

Someone should sit beside TCB and have a good chat about his "lacklustre" performance especially during media broadcast. .
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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appreciate the reply bro...

however what i take fm this PE is perhaps closer to what Brandon n Locke n hv written...the only way fwd for real political change is for a split to come fm wifin PAP/elite establishment itself...n for this split camp to take a centrist stance...

as for TT...well at least he cant claim to be the people's president...oh n am i still waiting for mindef to tell us whether any of the other 80plus ns men granted ns deferment to study medicine overseas prior to 92' fell into the same category as Patrick i.e. 12 yrs for md/phd
I will say I am disappointed and it pains me that he did not make it. But the opportunity was too good a chance to pass up. Hence, I can't say I regret it.

At the very least, it sends a message to the opposition that theirs is not a lost cause. More importantly, it sends a message to those currently waiting in the wings that joining the opposition is not a lost cause and a waste of time. If TJS had secured 5%, I think you will see those waiting in the wings stepping back because not many are prepared to slog it out without any hope of succeeding.

Bro, now that I've answered your question, will you and everyone reading this thread please do me a favour?

Please stand up, strike your clenched fist against your heart, hold it there and let's solemnly pledge to bear true faith and allegiance to President Tony, our 35% President.
 

scroobal

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Loyal
I was disappointed because I know this guy is like a terrier over issues. Unfortunately he could not break down the issue well for the common man. He made a comment about asking the govt to move out of the Istana but to the man on the street, the penny never did fall. To those who are politically acute, it was a massive body blow to Old man and to the cardinals. Even the PAP grassroots did not catch it.

He also seemed peeved over comments made by TJS and TKL during the two sessions. He should run with his own agenda and where tactically wise he should take on the rest. Look at the way TJS rubbished him. This is despite being acquaintences over 20 years. Too kind.

My saving grace was that I knew that he had substantial ground support. Nevertheless the temptation was there.


to me TCB's peformance during the 9 day period was tepid...but i must say his 2nd broadcast on fri night did bring back some allure, including his reference to his wife...made me reflect again on whether to change tack once again n vote for him as was my original intention prior to the 9 day period...unfortunately my gut instinct overruled as i still tot TT wld win quite easily(not 50plus% but at least high 40plus%) so went wif the 'heart' instead...
 

refulgence

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I was disappointed because I know this guy is like a terrier over issues. Unfortunately he could not break down the issue well for the common man. He made a comment about asking the govt to move out of the Istana but to the man on the street, the penny never did fall. To those who are politically acute, it was a massive body blow to Old man and to the cardinals. Even the PAP grassroots did not catch it.

He also seemed peeved over comments made by TJS and TKL during the two sessions. He should run with his own agenda and where tactically wise he should take on the rest. Look at the way TJS rubbished him. This is despite being acquaintences over 20 years. Too kind.

My saving grace was that I knew that he had substantial ground support. Nevertheless the temptation was there.

TCB could have crossed the bar if he had better communication skills and a more focused platform. His campaign suffered from his rather laid-back approach, but the detriment was mitigated by the lacklustre performance of his adversaries.
 

Whats4

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Are you sure that everyone has the right to contest? All the while I thought that only smart people who make profound statements are entitled to contest. That immediately rules me out.

If you are right, I will ask all those who can afford the deposit to stand at the next opportunity. The more the merrier. Ah Kow gets 10 votes, Ah Tee gets 20, and few others get a couple of hundred votes. And voters have more choices like a supermarket. Its a win win situation.

You are right, why stop at 4. And they say no horse run when it comes to intelligence. We certainly should have more horses, sorry candidates.

u can say whatever u like whether u are just simply dumb or act dumb. u have just simply shown that u are a sore loser who just can't accept defeat and go around blaming others.
 

Nik1971

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Loyal
TS: Simple, TJS is not electable. He CMI in GE, mark my word.

SOmeone deduct my reputational point for my TJS posts. Isn't this stupid of his supporters here in this forum?
 

Alamaking

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Asset
Have seen a lot of anti TJS posts lately, mostly in the line "fuck TJS, you screwed up TCB chances of winning".

If these people are true anti-PAP supporters, maybe they accidentally banged their head on the wall.

Ok, so let's say TCB won and TT did not, so fucking what? Wake the hell up people... TCB is a PAPpy like TT. TCB already said he will be Prataman Version 2 - see no evil, hear no evil, don't give a fuck. So what makes TCB better than Prataman? If you are a true anti-PAP supporter, you'll realize that the only option is TJS and TKL, and with TKL and his alleged attitude problem and bastard character (whether true or not nobody knows), TJS is the only viable option.

Seriously... get some fucking perspective before you guys starting blaming people left, right and center. If you want to cast blame, should target the arrogant prick TKL, whose votes would have gone to TJS if he was not there, and those idiot spoilt voters.
You are a moron who dun see the whole picture.
 

Alamaking

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I would like to add to your comment.

If TSJ didn't contest, where would his 529K votes go to? Probably TKL because they are mostly hard-core anti-PAP, and wouldn't vote for TCB. These25% would never support anyone from the PAP. If thats the case, TKL would have gotten 29.95% of the vote. Outcome would be the same.

If TKL didn't contest, where would his 103.9K votes go to? I believe TKL attracts more of the moderate voters that will never vote for TSJ as they see him as too "confrontational". Hence a sizeable proportion of his votes will probably got to TCB. TCB lose by only +7K, you do your maths.

If TCB didn't contest, the gain would definitely go to TT.
Most likely scenario, good analysis SNAblog
 

steffychun

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Most likely scenario, good analysis SNAblog

If TJS didnt contest, the debate would be more civil and lest SDP focused inthe social media world. TCB would get the high slim margin if TJS didnt abandon his friends TKL and TCB and enter the race on a SDP side.
 
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