Vincent Cheng: ISA victims must speak out

[elephanto]

I have been away for quite a while.

So it is with relief & joy that I can still find (rare these days) quality in the earlier posts by Scroo (interesting expose, just don't probe his identity), unrepented (very sensible very objective) & jw5 (fair observation).

Even people whom I have cross swords with b4 & who are not exactly friendly with me, papsmearer (I agree with his stand on Vincent Cheng though his stand comes with the usual other bitter gall & vitrolic bile) & chaopappy (valid criticism of that elitist snob IB).

PAP's rule is not without a fair share of micro injustice (micro to Old Man who will convince his 'younger colleagues' to not question his political instincts - he was PM then remember so last word is with him, as opposed to the macro good he deemed he is bringing to Spore & anyone who threatens his ordered society by the slightest hint of subversion, he will nip in the bud - Chia Thye Poh & the poor Dr Lim Hock Siew were even greater sufferers & holy innocents then Vincent Cheng & Teo Soh Lung etc).

It is precisely people like Internet Brigade who exudes intellectual superiority & contemptuous disregard for the common man as if economic logic is everything - from every pore & every cold clinical sentence (stubbornly bold) he writes now & before - that hardens my resolution to be in public life some day sooner than later.

I have recently experienced life as a cabby on top of my original business as an Enterprise Consultant that is experiencing a revival. further hone my grassroots exposure. So holding 2 jobs now.

I may not post as much as b4 when I was quite badly hit by the various woes of the terrible decade (01-10 : 9/11, SARS, H1N1, subprime etc).

I am now very focused & driven to build my financial nest-egg.
Economics secured (I don't need to be among the top 10 percentile of earners), I will fucking enter the arena & do my part - without fucking fear or favour,

I am unlikely to joint the Opps but will join PAP & fucking create havoc in its ranks & draw the line clearly between those who were originally inspired by the Spirit of '59/'65 & the colorless heartless technocrats & reclaim/return the Dominant Party to the people of Singapore.

& yes, I am kosingat from Delphi Days 1998/1999.....

 

[Kid278]

For someone who conspires to put everything under a regime to call a potential threat a Marxist conspirator, that sounds really like a Qin Shi Wang epic

It's tyranny of different eras, the difference is one had a continent while one had just an island.

 

[Papsmearer]

For a start, we could treat the Old Man and his son to the luxuries of the isolation ward. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

I think Old Goat will handle it better than his son. Gay Loong will be crying for him mummy within a few hours inside the isolation ward.

 

[Papsmearer]

Looks like no one seems to know the real reason for the detention. Vincent might not have not known then but he would have by now. Anyway here is the story behind all this.

The authorities have always monitored people who focus on worker's right since the days of SATU and Lim Cheng Siong. Shortly after Jurong Industrial estate was built, the Catholic Church and laypersons associated with it began to work with workers in an outreach programme. One of those was a foreigner and I think he was either a Hawaiian or Japanese. Vincent over time became his pupil. After watching them in the 70s, the foreigner was deported. In the meantime, a Catholic nun began creating waves in the old Nazareth Centre in Bukit Ho Swee with the poor and the less able. The authorities became weary again but they could not deport her aas she was a Singaporean and a Minister intervened threathening to arrest her. She was sent back to the convent. ...................................

Scroobal, this is a good re-counting. May I suggest elaboration on the after math of the arrests. In particular, the TV live "confession" that Gregory Yong was conned into making. I find this a particularly unpalatable chapter in he history of the roman catholic church in S'pore.

 

[Papsmearer]

Instead, many Singaporeans are becoming victims of their own shortcomings. The inability to succeed in this society then leads them to believe that every woe and misfortune in their lives originates from the PAP.

In the above scenario, we start to romanticize any opponents of the PAP. Francis Seow, Vincent Cheng, MSK, Chee Soon Juan...etc suddenly become heroes of epic proportions who are disproportionately grade in simple small minds.

Unfortunately, pathetic people like you are why the singapore society is in the mess that it is. You inability to marry logic with historical facts speaks volumes about your limited cranial capacity, or maybe u are just a PAP plant.

Singaporeans blame their woe and misfortunes on the PAP because..........wait for it...............could it just possibly be...............IT IS THE FUCKING PAP'S FAULT? In a normal democracy, if people think the govt. has brought about their woe and misfortune, they just vote them out. Happens every where in the world. But when the PAP uses criminal means to stay in power, for decades, and lay illegal plans for remaining in power for decades more, who should the people blame for their misfortunes? Themselves? I think not. When people lost their jobs because the PAP lets in some FT that stole ther job for half the pay, is it their inability to succeed in society? When the HDB sells them a $400K flat that costs $100K to build and burden them with a huge mortgage and monthly payments hence leaving them with less monthly discretionary income, is it their fault? When the people have to serve 2 years NS, and countless years reservists and as a result lost income and promotion opportunities because of this just so that newcomer citizens in their age group can walk around like they own the place, this is their fault or the PAP's? There are many more examples, are u too stupid to see it?

No one is romanticising PAP opponents here. People like Francis Seow are not likable people, and was Old Goat attack dog when he was the SG. But we have to recognise them for what they are. They are braver than u and I because they make their opposition public and take on all the shit the PAP throws at them.

 

[Kid278]

Looks like no one seems to know the real reason for the detention. To cut a long story short - the detention had no basis. There was no evidence of anything except protect worker's right which the arseholes on NTUC never did. Ask Mdm Halimah how much she earns a month. You guys will be shocked.

You have great stuffs, a library to respect, really admire that. Not everyday, anywhere one gets to read un-prostituted stuffs. By the way, not to digress but care to drop a line or two on one Phey yew kok of NTUC I read somewhere he got Tan Wah Piow jailed also for trying to help workers on their rights.

 

[Kid278]

If he is rooting for minimum wages, he should be re-arrested, like the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan.

What's wrong with calling for minimum wages, who do you think you are anyway? If you think what you have now will last, well think again and think of your offsprings. What goes around, comes around.

 

[Kid278]

Mas Selamat can be considered an ISA victim?

He will tell us he is innocent...

He's a victim alright but his cause is evil and does no one any good. He believes in evil and violence, extreme violence with intents to kill and should be dealt with a different provision, innocent or not.

 

[scroobal]

Gregory Yong did not yield despite pressure from Jayakumar and the ISD. Finally he relented when the old man got him to the Istana. Old man showed him letters from Tan Wah Piow written to the brother of one of the detainees asking for the Church to drive his agenda.

Yong probably feared that there was more.

Scroobal, this is a good re-counting. May I suggest elaboration on the after math of the arrests. In particular, the TV live "confession" that Gregory Yong was conned into making. I find this a particularly unpalatable chapter in he history of the roman catholic church in S'pore.

 

[silverfox@]

Singaporeans blame their woe and misfortunes on the PAP because..........wait for it...............could it just possibly be...............IT IS THE FUCKING PAP'S FAULT? In a normal democracy, if people think the govt. has brought about their woe and misfortune, they just vote them out. Happens every where in the world. But when the PAP uses criminal means to stay in power, for decades, and lay illegal plans for remaining in power for decades more, who should the people blame for their misfortunes? Themselves? I think not. When people lost their jobs because the PAP lets in some FT that stole ther job for half the pay, is it their inability to succeed in society? When the HDB sells them a $400K flat that costs $100K to build and burden them with a huge mortgage and monthly payments hence leaving them with less monthly discretionary income, is it their fault? When the people have to serve 2 years NS, and countless years reservists and as a result lost income and promotion opportunities because of this just so that newcomer citizens in their age group can walk around like they own the place, this is their fault or the PAP's? There are many more examples, are u too stupid to see it?

You remind me of the Yellow Shirts in Thailand who will think of ways and means to overturn the govt as long as its someone wearing Red. Look at what happens when the Yellows push up the Democrats to become the govt. It is the Reds' turn to fight the govt.

Respect the end result and the majority. Life will be better. I use the word Respect and not Accept.

I see this forum are filled with people who are disgruntled with the way things are being run. It's ok to just let it out and move on, but keep harping on it, and do you seriously feel happier about it. Or is this forum the only avenue to let it out and make people feel happy over it?

 

[silverfox@]

He's a victim alright but his cause is evil and does no one any good. He believes in evil and violence, extreme violence with intents to kill and should be dealt with a different provision, innocent or not.

Trust me, 20 years down the road, if MSK was ever released and he can give a speech in public, there will be people who believe in him and think that he did nothing, but why was he detained.

 

[scroobal]

Bro, missed your input. As usual a sensible post.

I have been away for quite a while.

So it is with relief & joy that I can still find (rare these days) quality in the earlier posts by Scroo (interesting expose, just don't probe his identity), unrepented (very sensible very objective) & jw5 (fair observation).

..

 

[Ramseth]

The British colonists passed ISA detention without trial laws to deal with rampant triad rioting and communist insurgency. Nobody decent and innocent complained. They were glad that made life safer. It was after independence, after traid gangs and communists were cleaned and cleared up, PAP using it against political opponents and dissendents that's causing unrest among politically and legally aware citizens.

To be fair, after GCT became PM, ISA was practically never used against political opponents and dissidents. GCT and LKY, then LHL switched their preferred methods of deterrance and punishment to defamation suits. Why use the police when they can use the judiciary, both equally compliant by then and now.

 

[Kid278]

LKY might have the mentality then, 宁可杀错，也不可放过. (To english bros,sis, it means he rather kill wrongly than to let them off)

Like you said, educating workers on their rights is just a small part. This is not a threat to them, its doing beyond that makes the PAP paranoid. It's what makes PAP famous. ACTION.

They forsee/presume the situation, take action and not wait for it to happen if it ever happens. Others would wait for things to happen and then take action.

Only tyrants thinks and act that way. Paranoia is a sickness and all tyrants has it, it's not action, it's reaction.

 

[silverfox@]

To be fair, after GCT became PM, ISA was practically never used against political opponents and dissidents. GCT and LKY, then LHL switched their preferred methods of deterrance and punishment to defamation suits. Why use the police when they can use the judiciary, both equally compliant by then and now.

1 question, if ISA no longer exists, what happens to people like Mas Selamat?

 

[scroobal]

Tan Wah Piow and Juliet Chin were student leaders at Bt Timah Campus and had a great following. They first initiated protest over poor villagers in Malaysia that coincidently Anwar was leading his youth activist days.

Tan and company went to the Jurong office of Phey Yew Kok over worker's right. There was a scuffle and tan was charged with rioting and jailed. Upon his release, instead of reporting for NS, he fled to the UK where he took law in Oxford.

Phey Yew Kok was investigated for corruption and CBT. He fled to Taiwan. The irony is that the Police seized 2 tour buses as part of case and used to drive their police officers on bus tours to Haadyai.

The judge who convicted Tan was Justice Sinnathuray who ironically heard Teo Soh Lung's case for detention.

You have great stuffs, a library to respect, really admire that. Not everyday, anywhere one gets to read un-prostituted stuffs. By the way, not to digress but care to drop a line or two on one Phey yew kok of NTUC I read somewhere he got Tan Wah Piow jailed also for trying to help workers on their rights.

 

[silverfox@]

Only tyrants thinks and act that way. Paranoia is a sickness and all tyrants has it, it's not action, it's reaction.

Tyrant I agree, but then again, if you ever watch this movie by Zhang Yimou (if you haven't, rent the DVD)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_(2002_film)

Assassin Jet Li has the chance to kill this tyrant Qin Shih Huang. But he didn't. Instead he chose death.

It has a meaningful story behind

 

[Unrepented]

Arrest and put on public trail?

1 question, if ISA no longer exists, what happens to people like Mas Selamat?

 

[Ramseth]

1 question, if ISA no longer exists, what happens to people like Mas Selamat?

Simple commonsense. MSK has to bomb and kill someone or many ones first before he can be arrested. He's probably dead by then in suicide mission, one life in exchange for many more innocent lives.

 

[Kid278]

Trust me, 20 years down the road, if MSK was ever released and he can give a speech in public, there will be people who believe in him and think that he did nothing, but why was he detained.

Well, he can do that, no one can deny him that. The question is can he convince people he's innocence and if there no hard evidence why are so many nations after him.