This policewoman very steady

[Papsmearer]

in the u.s., the same situation (armed aggressor with hostage) would bring out the entire police cavalry. if the hostage taker is in public view and his head is exposed to sniper scopes, he would be taken out by a triangulation of police sharpshooters with very powerful rifles. if sniping is not possible, the wait is too long, negotiations or attempts at negotiation fail, and the swat team has to move in, they will overkill by expending as many rounds as they possibly can without harming the hostage.

Wah, another bullshitter dirty harry. I can guarantee u that if a hostage taker was armed with only a knife, no police sharpshooter will "take him out" with a head shot. There will be hell to pay in a public inquiry. The only reason they will start shooting is if the hostage taker kills a hostage. Than all bets are off. There is a famous video of a police sharpshooter shooting the gun out of the hand of a crazy man. This crazy guy had a loaded pistol, and infinitely more dangerous situation than a knife. he could have shot at and kill a police officer quite easily. u can see the police are trying to talk to him, but they resist shooting him, dispite the fact he could have at least squeeze one shot off at the police. Finally, a police sniper shot the gun out of his hand. Not shoot him in the head, hand or leg. But shot the gun. The worse he had was a sprained hand. This guy lived. I defy u cowboys to say this was the wrong outcome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1EESuJMSkM

 

[jw5]

I tell u a true story that happened when I was in Sec school. One day one of my classmates brought a large knife to class. He was going to stab and slash another one of my classmates to death. This other classmate was quite an asshole at that time, and was bullying him and picking on him for the whole school year. He finally could not take it anymore and brought the knife to school. Imagine ours and teacher's shock when he pulled the knife from his bag in the middle of class in front of everyone, and started going after the bully. Everyone was scared shitless. This guy was my friend, he was a loner, very quiet guy. But he was just pushed too far. Was he mentally ok that day, of course not. He needs help, he does not need cops to shoot him to death in front of us. Fortunately, the situation was resolved without him dying, and this is why I say what I say. It would have been a waste of his life if he had been killed that day. I can tell u he is not a bad person. Its easy for u to say shoot this and shoot that.

How did the rest of you convince or subdue your classmate?

 

[Papsmearer]

It's always good if we can save the world, be kind and compassionate....

The disagreement point is always :

- when shld the talking stop and the shooting begin?
- do we aim to save the troublemaker or should we be considering the victim's and wider public's interest?
- is the situation salvagaeble?
etc .

Police everywhere has the same job to do - that of upholding public security and safety and keeping law and order. If it requires the use of force, so be it. Who has to decide? The commanders on the ground, nobody else.

Should the police wait to "understand" and "empathise" betterer while the hostage was in a life threatened situation? Wld you assume that one of ur family member was the hostage in assessing the situation, or the hostage taker?

The lady cop was right in stopping the knifeman in his tracks when the chance presented itself. Or else, the SWAT wld have been called in and the result wld still be the same.

Only u seem to have a disagreement point. Every modern police force in the world has strict guidelines and rules of engagement for the use of deadly force. They are trained rigorously to know when to shoot. Shooting is always the last resort, that is why police forces of the world have invested so much money in non lethal methods like tasers, bean bag weapons, pepper sprays, etc. Those questions that u ask, a policeman in most western police forces already know the answer to. For them its not academic and not a "disagreement point".

The lady cop shoots the knifeman, ok, I can get that part, the hostage is bleeding and in mortal danger. But than to put 3 more into his back while he is lying facedown on the floor, what do you call that? U think its ok? U are a sad person, I feel sorry for you.

 

[Ramseth]

The lady cop shoots the knifeman, ok, I can get that part, the hostage is bleeding and in mortal danger. But than to put 3 more into his back while he is lying facedown on the floor, what do you call that? U think its ok?

In the western world, it's called ensuring public safety. In China, it's called summary execution, 就地正法。

 

[Papsmearer]

In the western world, it's called ensuring public safety. In China, it's called summary execution, 就地正法。

This is my problem entirely, too many idiots in this thread think its ok. Maybe we should change our name to Singapore Province, PRC. God knows, we have enough PRC citizens here already. No one in the world should admire or aspire to this form of PRC justice.

 

[kingrant]

I told you already. This is in China, not the U.S. and Canada (where anyway, there were also excessive use of force leading to death).

In China, they deal with hoodlums this way. In places like china, if you deal with these people with kids' gloves, you will lose control. You already have seen some walking examples from their provinces in Singapore. You let up, you lose.

Stop being a bleeding heart. China needs this kind of brute force law enforcement.

Only u seem to have a disagreement point. Every modern police force in the world has strict guidelines and rules of engagement for the use of deadly force. They are trained rigorously to know when to shoot. Shooting is always the last resort, that is why police forces of the world have invested so much money in non lethal methods like tasers, bean bag weapons, pepper sprays, etc. Those questions that u ask, a policeman in most western police forces already know the answer to. For them its not academic and not a "disagreement point".

The lady cop shoots the knifeman, ok, I can get that part, the hostage is bleeding and in mortal danger. But than to put 3 more into his back while he is lying facedown on the floor, what do you call that? U think its ok? U are a sad person, I feel sorry for you.

 

[eatshitndie]

Wah, another bullshitter dirty harry. I can guarantee u that if a hostage taker was armed with only a knife, no police sharpshooter will "take him out" with a head shot. There will be hell to pay in a public inquiry. The only reason they will start shooting is if the hostage taker kills a hostage. Than all bets are off. There is a famous video of a police sharpshooter shooting the gun out of the hand of a crazy man. This crazy guy had a loaded pistol, and infinitely more dangerous situation than a knife. he could have shot at and kill a police officer quite easily. u can see the police are trying to talk to him, but they resist shooting him, dispite the fact he could have at least squeeze one shot off at the police. Finally, a police sniper shot the gun out of his hand. Not shoot him in the head, hand or leg. But shot the gun. The worse he had was a sprained hand. This guy lived. I defy u cowboys to say this was the wrong outcome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1EESuJMSkM

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/SJ-Cops-Shoot-Knife-Wielding-Man.html

san jose, ca: no made-up story here. it's based on an incident in san jose in may, 2009. that guy with the knife wasn't even holding a hostage. threatening with a knife will get one fatally shot here in california. they don't shoot to injure. they shoot to kill.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/08/man_with_knife_shot_killed_by.html

brooklyn, ny: man with knife shot, killed by cops in brooklyn

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...ers-with-a-Knife-Shot-by-Police-97703659.html

san diego, ca: cops say man they shot wouldn't put down knife

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...man_allegedly_armed_with_kitchen_knife_f.html

brooklyn, ny: man allegedly armed with kitchen knife fatally shot by cops

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/08/2-shot-outside-loop-tv-studio.html

chicago, il: cop kills knife-wielding man in loop, wounds officer

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-06-14/bay-area/21909651_1_suspect-boyfriend-knife

fremont, ca: police kill suspect wielding knife

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/new...l/11/officials-man-shot-by-cop-had-knife.html

philadelphia, pa: man shot by cop had knife

 

[eatshitndie]

and there are botched attempts at sniping. here's one...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96378&page=1

"A police sniper fired the shot that killed a woman being held hostage by a murder suspect during a three-day standoff in Orlando, authorities said — and relatives of the victim are condemning the cops’ actions.

The sniper was aiming for hostage-taker Jamie Dean Petron when Andrea Hall, 40, was hit, said Orlando Police Chief Jerry Demings on Tuesday. Demings would not discuss details of the shooting, which the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is investigating."

but it's true that police here in the u.s. will snipe to kill at the first opportunity in any hostage taking. not making this up.

 

[Ramseth]

Wah, another bullshitter dirty harry. I can guarantee u that if a hostage taker was armed with only a knife, no police sharpshooter will "take him out" with a head shot. There will be hell to pay in a public inquiry. The only reason they will start shooting is if the hostage taker kills a hostage. Than all bets are off.

Someone innocent must be murdered first? What kind of logic or law is that?

Whatever happened to the doctrine of prevention of crime and harm to the innocent?

 

[wuqi256]

Yep, warped logic at best and asking folks to get neutered or euthanized when he is against the hurting and killing of "innocent" hostage takers. Guy can't make up his mind. Must see someone die first before the person is stopped, try explaining to the grieving relatives, "Oh i am sorry, i must see him do something bad to your daughter first, he is not wrong to wave a weapon at her you know? After all, its "ONLY" a knife, hardly anything serious."

Sniping to shoot out the weapon from a hostage taker? In your dreams, it doesn't always happen that way no amount of training could guarantee that shot to land exactly where you want it to. There are just too many factors involved, the suspect could change position or pull a hostage close at the last minute. Protective glass should also deflect the bullet if a robber is behind it, lets not even talk about windage, etc. Any errors made in such situations could make matters worse and escalate the situation even further.

http://www.toxicjunction.com/get.asp?i=V4671

Bank Robbers Shoot Hostages After Swat Team Sniper Misses
Swat team's sniper misses the target and then the robber starts shooting the hostages. Swat team rushes in immediately and kills the robbers.

To idealize the right conditions in a dangerous situation concerning human lives is not only downright naive, it could potentially cost lives. Again, i am against summary executions but i am certainly of the opinion that once someone has exhibited a dangerous loss of self control and armed with a weapon, this person needs to be stopped and quickly. Even non-lethal weapons like tasers are not perfect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues#Risks_of_death_or_serious_injuries

Not that all this matters for someone who kept calling folks idiots when they disagree with him or curse people dead just because they learnt how to protect themselves.

 

[eatshitndie]

http://www.toxicjunction.com/get.asp?i=V4671

Bank Robbers Shoot Hostages After Swat Team Sniper Misses
Swat team's sniper misses the target and then the robber starts shooting the hostages. Swat team rushes in immediately and kills the robbers.

To idealize the right conditions in a dangerous situation concerning human lives is not only downright naive, it could potentially cost lives. Again, i am against summary executions but i am certainly of the opinion that once someone has exhibited a dangerous loss of self control and armed with a weapon, this person needs to be stopped and quickly. Even non-lethal weapons like tasers are not perfect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues#Risks_of_death_or_serious_injuries

Not that all this matters for someone who kept calling folks idiots when they disagree with him or curse people dead just because they learnt how to protect themselves.

all the info is there on the internet. all it takes is a little time and a little effort on the search engine. i can't believe some folks here can be so lazy and so lame in shooting aimlessly from the hip (with no pun intended).

 

[kingrant]

Excellent research, bro. Proves that even the great Hew Hess Hay executes their wolverines.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/SJ-Cops-Shoot-Knife-Wielding-Man.html

san jose, ca: no made-up story here. it's based on an incident in san jose in may, 2009. that guy with the knife wasn't even holding a hostage. threatening with a knife will get one fatally shot here in california. they don't shoot to injure. they shoot to kill.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/08/man_with_knife_shot_killed_by.html

brooklyn, ny: man with knife shot, killed by cops in brooklyn

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...ers-with-a-Knife-Shot-by-Police-97703659.html

san diego, ca: cops say man they shot wouldn't put down knife

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...man_allegedly_armed_with_kitchen_knife_f.html

brooklyn, ny: man allegedly armed with kitchen knife fatally shot by cops

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/08/2-shot-outside-loop-tv-studio.html

chicago, il: cop kills knife-wielding man in loop, wounds officer

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-06-14/bay-area/21909651_1_suspect-boyfriend-knife

fremont, ca: police kill suspect wielding knife

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/new...l/11/officials-man-shot-by-cop-had-knife.html

philadelphia, pa: man shot by cop had knife

 

[kingrant]

Dear Pap,

Looks like it's not only me who seems to have a disagreement point.

Only u seem to have a disagreement point.

For them its not academic and not a "disagreement point".

Someone innocent must be murdered first? What kind of logic or law is that?

Whatever happened to the doctrine of prevention of crime and harm to the innocent?

all the info is there on the internet. all it takes is a little time and a little effort on the search engine. i can't believe some folks here can be so lazy and so lame in shooting aimlessly from the hip (with no pun intended).

 

[eatshitndie]

Excellent research, bro. Proves that even the great Hew Hess Hay executes their wolverines.

the san jose and fremont incidents were very close to home. they were on the morning and evening news for almost a year. there was an earlier incident in san jose where cops fatally shot a woman wielding a vegetable peeler, which resembled a kitchen knife from 3 yards away. she was shot in the chest at point blank range. all she did was peel some vege, probably a cucumber.

it's safer to wield a knife in china than it is to wield a nail file in the u.s.

 

[kingrant]

Good one, bro!

it's safer to wield a knife in china than it is to wield a nail file in the u.s.

 

[eatshitndie]

http://bronxink.org/2010/02/22/4438...-shot-by-police-mother-in-critical-condition/

bronx, ny: skillet-wielding man shot by police

"The officers forced their way in and saw Singh battering his mother with a frying pan, according to the report. The police said that Singh failed to respond when he was told to drop his weapon. The officers gunned him down when he raised the pan to strike his mother again. According to police sources, the sergeant fired once, and when Singh rose up again, one of the officers fired four times."

"Singh died on the scene, according to police reports..." - uncanny and rhythmic way of police reporting.

in the u.s., if you hold anything threateningly, they will shoot you... not in the hands, not in the legs, not in the groin, but in the chest area... the objective is to kill. so don't act tough and play play here.

even a guy in the bay area wielding a broomstick got fatally shot by 2 cops. i remember that story and have decided to sweep and/or rake the front yard when there's no one around. it's true. playing with the garden hose can also get shot by cops.

 

[eatshitndie]

http://gothamist.com/2008/11/14/cop_fatally_shoots_charging_man_in.php

brooklyn, ny: cop fatally shoots chair-wielding man

'A police officer shot and killed a man "wielding a chair as a weapon" in Coney Island yesterday afternoon. According to WCBS 2, "the shooting happened outside a church used as a truancy center after a group of students inside reported seeing the man walk into the lot and attempt to break into a car."'

 

[chobolan]

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="560"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" width="350">

</td> <td width="5">

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The New Paper </td> </tr> <tr> <td height="15">

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</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr><td colspan="3"> <!-- TITLE : start -->
Man takes passer-by hostage in China <!-- TITLE : end--> </td></tr> <tr><td colspan="3" height="15">

</td> </tr> <tr><td colspan="3" class="bodytext_10pt"> <!-- CONTENT : start --> AN UNDERCOVER policewoman ended an hour-long hostage drama in Guangzhou, China, in three seconds.

She fired four shots and killed a robber, who was holding a woman hostage, after distracting him with a bottled drink. Guangzhou Daily reported that the drama started after the 38-year-old man robbed a man near a train station on Tuesday at about 8pm. The victim had resisted and the man used a knife to stab him before fleeing.

Police gave chase, but the man grabbed hold of a female passer-by near a bus stop and held her hostage in front of an ATM at about 8.25pm. He wrapped his left arm around her neck while holding the knife at her throat. Police cordoned off the area and hostage negotiators tried to talk the man out of harming the woman.

The man said he did not want to harm the hostage, but each time police officers tried to edge closer, he slashed the woman on her arm and leg. The atmosphere became more tense after an hour of negotiations. The man had become more agitated after his requests for a gun and transportation to Hubei province were refused.

By then, the woman's clothes were soaked in blood. At 9.25pm, a plainclothes policewoman approached the pair and offered the man a bottled drink after he complained of being thirsty, but threw the bottled drink onto the ground near the man. The man stepped forward and used his right leg to roll the bottle closer to him.

He then bent down to pick up the bottle and the policewoman seized her chance to draw her gun. She ran forward and fired a shot at the man without hesitation. The man fell backwards, still holding on to the hostage. The policewoman then fired another three shots at the man at point-blank range, killing him.

The hostage was taken to a nearby hospital. She is in stable condition. The man was reported to be a thief from Hubei and had been on the run from police there. The 1.6m-tall policewoman, known only as Ms Xiu, later told Guangzhou Daily that while she had been with the police force for 27 years and had received training as a sniper, this was the first time she had fired a gun at someone.

Force

"We had to use force because we could not guarantee the hostage's safety," Ms Xiu, who is in her 40s, told the newspaper. "My superiors told me to get a gun from the police van and I loaded it with six rounds and tucked it in my right trouser pocket. "When he bent down to pick up the bottle, he left part of his right chest exposed. I aimed for that area."

She added: "He was still moving after my first shot, so I moved in and fired another three shots." "I had only two thoughts in my mind - to ensure the safety of the hostage and to overcome the man." After making sure the hostage was all right, Ms Xiu handed in her weapon and returned to work at a police station. When asked if she was worried about accidentally hitting the hostage, she said: "Failure was not an option."

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[chobolan]

​

Dramatic video captures a plain-clothed policewoman in southern China's Guangzhou city ending a hostage situation by shooting the suspect dead.

​

Guangzhou Daily reported that the drama started after the 38-year-old man robbed a man near a train station on Tuesday at about 8pm.
The victim had resisted and the man used a knife to stab him before fleeing.

Police gave chase, but the man grabbed hold of a female passer-by near a bus stop and held her hostage in front of an ATM at about 8.25pm.



​

 

[chobolan]

​

Police cordoned off the area and hostage negotiators tried to talk the man out of harming the woman.

He wrapped his left arm around her neck while holding the knife at her throat.

​

The man said he did not want to harm the hostage, but each time police officers tried to edge closer, he slashed the woman on her arm and leg.



​