The Whip Will Not Be Lifted!!

[Balancemind]

LHL already said that he supports the recommendations but many feel that the cut is not deep enough. my sense is that it will be cut further at the next review

It's going to be a long wait, lady. Five long years anything can happen and thereafter another 'Sorry' at Raffles Place and the voters just goes ga ga and history will repeat itself again.

 

[TracyTan866]

It's going to be a long wait, lady. Five long years anything can happen and thereafter another 'Sorry' at Raffles Place and the voters just goes ga ga and history will repeat itself again.

Yes, it is gg to be a long wait. LHL delays doing the right thing to PAP's detriment

 

[TracyTan866]

hahaha......it is amazing all this herd instinct and singing the same old tune.
if u really know the old man as all the wise pple claimed so, u should know that if he is still carrying the whip and running the show, this review committee "wayang" exercise would never have happened in the first place.......it is just not the old man's style.

yes, this is "wayang"..deep inside, the pap ministers still believe that they shd be paid millions in salary. this is a bad sign

 

[TracyTan866]

Not true. The Old Fart is too seasoned a politician and he knows what the political costs would be to PAP if it was to ignore the people's expressed anger with the out-of-the-world salaries. He also has too much political acumen to know that if the PAP was to simply announce a certain percentage of cuts, then it will shows up that all the methods and formulae used in the past were not robust such that it can be so easily be fixed. Hence a review committee was the most expedient way to go about this chore politically to try to give this exercise more credence. This sly old fox knows when to be flexible to depart from his usual style if he thinks that would help PAP gain political ground. After all, it's only the style as in substance, he had already made his decision that the ministers' pay must continue to be peg to top earners.

the key issue is whether this salary cut is done with true repentence or is it done grudgingly. if done grudingly, it is best that they leave

 

[TracyTan866]

Even if the Whip is lifted.Who wants to bet with me how many of PAP MPs will vote against PAP?....I bet not more than 2.Why?Just look at the line up of PAP MPs,....PAP selection process had already chosen the lot who will sell their mothers for money.People who are not in politics to serve the people consciously..How can we expect some thing which is non existence from this lot?Hey,we are talking about politicians here.Politicians by nature are self serving.

That is why the only check and balance in a parliamentary system is the existence of multi parties.Like a debate.One proposes and other disposes.But once put to vote;it's expected that all party men to close ranks.It's an unwritten code of conduct .Parliament is not like a 1 man 1 vote system ; out of which the majority votes wins.Chaos will result under such a system.How can a ruling party is expected to table anything without knowing how it's own party men will vote in the parliament?

Whip is usually imposed if a party senses they lack of Quorum or on a do and die issue like say,a no confidence motion.As on 20 July 1961 when PAP was left hanging onto a slim one-seat majority- with 26 PAP MPs to the opposition's 25. All it takes is 1 to topple the government.Just as it happened in Malaysia's Perak state assembly.Perak state was won by the opposition in GE 2008.UMNO unseated them by buying over just one of the DAP assembly woman .Hence,the purpose of the whip in a parliament is not as you guys speculate it to be.

But,I agree with some posters here that PAP uses it's whip for other ignoble reasons.To give an excuse to the general public that PAP MPs voted for because their hands were tied by the whip.

In fact every PAP MP can lie to their constituents that they are consciously against such obscene pay packet. But the whip prevented them voting against it....and we won't know whether they are lying or not.

true..the PAP's recruitment and selection process has failed badly. it is getting the wrong guys who come in for the wrong motive. No wonder SG is in such deep trouble

 

[kukubird58]

Not true. The Old Fart is too seasoned a politician and he knows what the political costs would be to PAP if it was to ignore the people's expressed anger with the out-of-the-world salaries. .

hahaha.....my point is the old man is not running the show and carrying the whip on "non-fundamental" issues.
we can agree to disagree.

 

[mesmerised]

LKY probably has resigned to the fact that the current batch of PAP leaders are just like the Lehman Brothers ...overpaid and unable to resolve problems before they crop up.

But he still thinks the best and brightest must be drawn to the PAP. And if they fail, they will be history !

 

[GoldenDragon]

TS: never considered entering the political arena?

 

[freedalas]

hahaha.....my point is the old man is not running the show and carrying the whip on "non-fundamental" issues.
we can agree to disagree.

The formulae and method of pegging ministers' salaries to top earners in the private sector was conceived and implemented by LKY. And the continual increases in their salaries were also by LKY. So to him, this is NOT a non-fundamental issue. But as you suggest, let's agree to disagree. Thanks, bro

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

What are whips for in SG's parliament? The ultimate power is the Old Man. He is the ultimate whip

His bovine whip cannot mari kita anymore........... hahaha

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

If they can't lift the whip then lift the skirt of Grace and see how much she's worth to be raised.

She can round her heels in Desker Rd n get one fuck after ten hrs///// only after heavy price discounting n from a starved Bangla................ no sgian will up her except, perhaps perhaps her husband

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

true..the PAP's recruitment and selection process has failed badly. it is getting the wrong guys who come in for the wrong motive. No wonder SG is in such deep trouble

YES there are many who went in for the wrong reasons.... they love the pay but not Singapore. Look at all those who are not worth or even get a fraction of the pay had they continued their old job - Grace Fu does not count as she was in TLC job - all GLC jobs TLC included are also overpaid to make a strong case for PAP overpaying themselves. Look at Wong Kan Seng, as one Chairman of TLC subsidiary ...... doing little and getting fed like hog after being dumped by sgian n LHL. There is provision for make up pay but is there any to counteract those making far too much compared to their previous pays? These opportunists can be counted with many fingers n toes. Bah.

 

[aurvandil]

Don't see why Opposition supporters are so worried on this issue. The outcome is a clear win-win.

Outside of the PAP, the cuts have been poorly received. As mentioned before, most survey studies reject the notion that the Singapore political leaders need to be paid 4 to 5 times their peers. As an exercise to regain political capital, this has been a clear failure.

Within the PAP itself, there have been rumblings of discontent. The PAP have bought into their propaganda and there are members who feel that Singaporeans are ungrateful for the "sacrifices" they have made. They genuinely feel that the cuts should have been much smaller (10% to 20%) and are hoping that any reduction will be restored in due course. If there is a need for further cuts in order to regain the moral high ground and much needed political capital, there will be trouble in the PAP. Especially troublesome for the PAP are the senior civil servants who are the bedrock of the PAP's grip on power. These elite have been untouched by the current review and are expecting to be fed more pay increases to secure their loyalty.

I am looking forward to a series of self serving speeches which will raise the disgust levels Singaporeans have for the PAP.

 

[kukubird58]

Not true. The Old Fart is too seasoned a politician and he knows what the political costs would be to PAP if it was to ignore the people's expressed anger with the out-of-the-world salaries. He also has too much political acumen to know that if the PAP was to simply announce a certain percentage of cuts, then it will shows up that all the methods and formulae used in the past were not robust such that it can be so easily be fixed. Hence a review committee was the most expedient way to go about this chore politically to try to give this exercise more credence. This sly old fox knows when to be flexible to depart from his usual style if he thinks that would help PAP gain political ground. After all, it's only the style as in substance, he had already made his decision that the ministers' pay must continue to be peg to top earners.

hahaha....not quite sure you got my point...
let me explain in my kuku way.....if the whip is lifted, I am quite sure old man will vote NO to this motion.

 

[TracyTan866]

YES there are many who went in for the wrong reasons.... they love the pay but not Singapore. Look at all those who are not worth or even get a fraction of the pay had they continued their old job - Grace Fu does not count as she was in TLC job - all GLC jobs TLC included are also overpaid to make a strong case for PAP overpaying themselves. Look at Wong Kan Seng, as one Chairman of TLC subsidiary ...... doing little and getting fed like hog after being dumped by sgian n LHL. There is provision for make up pay but is there any to counteract those making far too much compared to their previous pays? These opportunists can be counted with many fingers n toes. Bah.

very true...

 

[The_Hypocrite]

This is a Westminister system, hence the whip is there to ensure its members vote according to the directions of its leader. That is why I have never been a fan of the westminister system..However if the whip is lifted or made obsolete,,will Parliament be dysfunctional? Wait,,it already is,,,except it follows the dysfunctional dictates of the Lee Clan

 

[TracyTan866]

This is a Westminister system, hence the whip is there to ensure its members vote according to the directions of its leader. That is why I have never been a fan of the westminister system..However if the whip is lifted or made obsolete,,will Parliament be dysfunctional? Wait,,it already is,,,except it follows the dysfunctional dictates of the Lee Clan

yes, SG Parliament is already dysfunctional and makes a mockery of the Westminister system

 

[steffychun]

This is a Westminister system, hence the whip is there to ensure its members vote according to the directions of its leader. That is why I have never been a fan of the westminister system..However if the whip is lifted or made obsolete,,will Parliament be dysfunctional? Wait,,it already is,,,except it follows the dysfunctional dictates of the Lee Clan

No, even in the American system there are whips to control members