The REAL issue with the CPF

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

There is too much noise that is stiffling the real issue of the CPF from coming to the fore. Let's be clear that the CPF issue are as follows -

1) Huge discrepancy between what the government earns from CPF investments and what citizens receive. The simple question here is who is the government investing for if not for the citizens?

2) CPF has been depleted even prior to retirement through home purchases and healthcare costs. Why is HDB priced at market value and not at costs and why have all ministers in charge of HDB refused to answer to the question of how much it costs to build a HDB flat.

3) Original CPF promise was changed unilaterally and disadvantaged a large number of citizens. Related to this is the government's calculation of life expectancy which seems to be skewed.

4) There is a lack of transparency on the flow of funds related to the CPF, GIC and Temasek. Till today, either state secrets are said to be at play or any information given out is either contradictory or lacks insight.

5) Related to (4) is the lack of transparency surrounding GIC and Temasek and this includes salaries and bonuses to management and directors - why is there a lack of transparency and is there a more efficient way to manage the funds?

6) Exactly how does the import of foreign workers help to alleviate the need to support an ageing population? If the government has set aside each ciizen's CPF infusion then there should be no issue when it's time to repay, in full, each citizen's CPF savings. And since a small proportion of foreign workers contribute to CPF how does that actually help the pool AND why do we even need to pool the funds if each gets what they are due, based on what they put in and based on the interest returns? The only real need to pool and revert to a pension fund system is if withdrawals are expected to be higher than input+interest. So, what's really been missing from the original CPF equation?

And we've not even touched on CPF withdrawals from ex-citizens and PRs who have relinquished their status with respect to Singapore. This is a huge ticking time bomb as we should expect larger withdrawals in the following years due to the larger pool of PRs we currently have and if we take the same historical percentage that will relinquish their status here.

These points should always be covered in all articles and editorials covering the CPF issue.

 

[scroobal]

Really good summary, clear and to the point. If the government is sincere and honest, they will ask all 6 questions instead of throwing their various essays which never answers the questions.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Really good summary, clear and to the point. If the government is sincere and honest, they will ask all 6 questions instead of throwing their various essays which never answers the questions.

Thank you sir. Please share the original list and contribute your own worth into the list (but please do your best not to dilute the message or points).

 

[laksaboy]

1) Brilliant investments such as Merill Lynch.

2) If the HDB flat's building cost were revealed, Sinkies would feel very ripped off.

3) Whatever it takes to keep the money locked up.

4) Nothing personal, it is just (family) business.

5) See #4.

6) It's like fractional reserve banking. The bank never has the full amount of money at its physical location. Most of it is circulating and moving to various locations. That is why bank runs are bad.

Foreigners (i.e the massive increment in population/workforce in recent years):
1) Prop up the Central Ponzi Fund, as the baby boomers come of withdrawal age.
2) Helps businesses grow rich by having a pool of very cheap workers (cronies such as Breadtalk's George Quek love this, observe his bakeries and eateries).
3) May have a beneficial political effect if these foreigners are converted to SG citizens and ushered to the ballot box...
4) Honours the various FTAs signed with certain countries, allowing their students and job seekers to come here in exchange for certain perks e.g. business opportunities in those countries, political clout in ASEAN etc.

Materialism not grounded on wisdom will only lead to ruin.

 

[Semaj2357]

CPF has been depleted even prior to retirement through home purchases and healthcare costs. Why is HDB priced at market value and not at costs and why have all ministers in charge of HDB refused to answer to the question of how much it costs to build a HDB flat.

cost can easily be apportioned as we can just count the "brick and motars" that went into bldg those flats - it's only muddled when they tweak the figures by including the cost of land and no one's the wiser.

Exactly how does the import of foreign workers help to alleviate the need to support an ageing population? If the government has set aside each ciizen's CPF infusion then there should be no issue when it's time to repay, in full, each citizen's CPF savings. And since a small proportion of foreign workers contribute to CPF how does that actually help the pool AND why do we even need to pool the funds if each gets what they are due, based on what they put in and based on the interest returns? The only real need to pool and revert to a pension fund system is if withdrawals are expected to be higher than input+interest. So, what's really been missing from the original CPF equation

good points....when I put in 3 eggs and after I reach 55, i expect the 3 eggs to be there plus whatever hatchlings there may be and look forward to the sounds of music, be it cockadoodle-doo or even cockanathan. now, no picture and no sound as they say.....also up to me then if I decide to donate one of these eggs for someone's char kuay tiow :p

 

[makapaaa]

The biggest issue is that 60% have no issue with it!

 

[eatshitndie]

omg! not another cpf thread....:o

 

[Leongsam]

omg! not another cpf thread....:o

It gives me an opportunity to relate just how good a scheme it is.

My relative just withdrew more than $600,000 from his ordinary account at 55. He is very happy with the CPF scheme as it forced him to save what he otherwise would have blown on cars and other frivolous purchases.

He used the $600,000 to invest in property overseas.

 

[winnipegjets]

It gives me an opportunity to relate just how good a scheme it is.

My relative just withdrew more than $600,000 from his ordinary account at 55. He is very happy with the CPF scheme as it forced him to save what he otherwise would have blown on cars and other frivolous purchases.

He used the $600,000 to invest in property overseas.

Your relative didn't do his math lah ...he could have been drawing out millions now instead of the $600k. He's has been cheated and he doesn't even know. If you tell him, he will curse the PAP till kingdom come.

 

[eatshitndie]

It gives me an opportunity to relate just how good a scheme it is.

My relative just withdrew more than $600,000 from his ordinary account at 55. He is very happy with the CPF scheme as it forced him to save what he otherwise would have blown on cars and other frivolous purchases.

He used the $600,000 to invest in property overseas.

i applaud the positive attitude with a "beat the dead horse" connotation.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

cost can easily be apportioned as we can just count the "brick and motars" that went into bldg those flats - it's only muddled when they tweak the figures by including the cost of land and no one's the wiser.



good points....when I put in 3 eggs and after I reach 55, i expect the 3 eggs to be there plus whatever hatchlings there may be and look forward to the sounds of music, be it cockadoodle-doo or even cockanathan. now, no picture and no sound as they say.....also up to me then if I decide to donate one of these eggs for someone's char kuay tiow :p

Why should citizens have to extrapolate the costs of building HDB flats? The figures should be readily available or provided by the minister in charge when asked. Why is the a secrecy or a lack of transparency and it is this lack of transparency based on the fact being a highly regarded secret that is the issue.

 

[johnny333]

Why should citizens have to extrapolate the costs of building HDB flats? The figures should be readily available or provided by the minister in charge when asked. Why is the a secrecy or a lack of transparency and it is this lack of transparency based on the fact being a highly regarded secret that is the issue.

The CPF issues is just one of the many skeletons the Lees are hiding. Many Sporeans think that Spore is a fine city but have not considered the true cost.

Some of these costs include time wasted doing NS. Our parents are subsidising the PAP because for 2+ years the NS guys have to rely on parents for $. It also represents 2+ years of lost oppurtunity cost for us males.

There is also the issue of suppressed wages. For donkey years the PAP having been telling Sporeans that they should remain competitive by curtailing wage hikes. The PAP are hypocrites because they are not practising what they preach. In fact their wages are the highest in the world.

 

[soIsee]

It gives me an opportunity to relate just how good a scheme it is.

My relative just withdrew more than $600,000 from his ordinary account at 55. He is very happy with the CPF scheme as it forced him to save what he otherwise would have blown on cars and other frivolous purchases.

He used the $600,000 to invest in property overseas.

But the Sinkie here in this forum are Losers all their lives.

They have pathetic pay also thru out their lives and many are jobless.

Which translate to pathetic CPF contribution thru out their lives that is even if they are gainfully employed to have any sort of contribution.

And they will complain and blame the PAP thru out their lives

What's new? LoL

 

[soIsee]

Why should citizens have to extrapolate the costs of building HDB flats? The figures should be readily available or provided by the minister in charge when asked. Why is the a secrecy or a lack of transparency and it is this lack of transparency based on the fact being a highly regarded secret that is the issue.

No one asked you to buy the HDB pigeon hole lah.

Keep harping the same old tune.

Got the capability and ability..

GO buy private housing lah!

Cannot?

Why?

Becos you are a loser in life?LoL

 

[tonychat]

No one asked you to buy the HDB pigeon hole lah.

Keep harping the same old tune.

Got the capability and ability..

GO buy private housing lah!

Cannot?

Why?

Becos you are a loser in life?LoL

for this, i agree,

 

[tonychat]

But the Sinkie here in this forum are Losers all their lives.

They have pathetic pay also thru out their lives and many are jobless.

Which translate to pathetic CPF contribution thru out their lives that is even if they are gainfully employed to have any sort of contribution.

And they will complain and blame the PAP thru out their lives

What's new? LoL

They are indeed losers but they have the right to get back their CPF when they are 55..

there is no need for any minimum sum at all.

 

[Liquigas]

The three main complaints against the CPF for the low balance in our CPF account at age 55 can be summarised as below:
(1) Low annual returns at 2.5 - 4%. We all know the power of compound interest.
(2) High MS making withdrawal at age 55 difficult
(3) Low or little balance in CPF because funds had been channelled to pay for high HDB mortgages

The govt can solve (1) if they want to because GIC and TH reportedly are enjoying double digit returns then surely there is little problem in paying CPF account holders better returns.

As for (2) it is not really a major issue. The full sum may not be returned at 55 (after all it may still be a good idea to lock up a small portion in CPF for old age) but the MS figure can be adjusted to say by reducing it by two-thirds or half.

Now (3) is a massive problem for the govt. They can't reduce HDB prices back to for example levels in the late 1980s where a new 5-Rm HDB cost only $120K. For those of us who purchased HDB flats from 1990s onwards will not likely support this initiative.

So the CPF issue is a big problem which will not go away easily representing the greatest challenge facing the government for years to come.

 

[Masturbation]

TS is spot on. Add to your points.

 

[mojito]

But that is six issues, not one.

 

[Poseidon]

It gives me an opportunity to relate just how good a scheme it is.

My relative just withdrew more than $600,000 from his ordinary account at 55. He is very happy with the CPF scheme as it forced him to save what he otherwise would have blown on cars and other frivolous purchases.

He used the $600,000 to invest in property overseas.

Your relatives again, how many relatives do you have:*: