THE BIG LIE: “Rich People Create Jobs”

[bryanlim1972]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

Ignore his charts. It is possible to selectively choose data to show anything you want to support your cause.

Take Sweden as an example.. it now has one of the highest youth unemployment rates in Europe at 24.2%.

spoken like a true master of selectivity

I run an on line business and because of the low company tax rate compared to NZ, I prefer to locate the physical aspects of the on line business in Singapore so I can declare my profits there. I hire 4 people in Singapore and ZERO in NZ because Singapore has a far more favorable tax structure. NZ has an unemployment rate of 6.7%. Singapore's rate is a third of that.

This has nothing to do with being left wing or right wing. It's all about taxation and accounting and the innate desire of any business owner to get the best bang for his buck.

an online business is a different proposition from traditional businesses. i'm sure you know that. for brick and mortars, i don't expect to see LVMH opening in East Timor anytime soon.

singapore's hub/regional hq approach might work for us, but there can only be 1 hub per region.

so generally speaking, Rich people don't create ALL jobs, and Rich Consumers do create MORE jobs.

 

[bryanlim1972]

Companies such as Apple, Google etc are lucky in that they can avoid paying high taxes because of their borderless structure.

They locate in the Bay area and create employment there. However, they remit very little of their worldwide profits back to CA.

i believe they can avoid Fed tax, but not State tax which is kind of like GST?

 

[bryanlim1972]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

Successful and expanding businesses create an affluent middle class.

The affluent middle class spread their wealth through conspicuous consumption... sometimes beyond their means.

finally, an acknowledgement of the role of consumers in job creation.

 

[Leongsam]

i believe they can avoid Fed tax, but not State tax which is kind of like GST?

State taxes are only imposed on purchases within the state borders. There is no state tax component on the bill that I pay Google in my Adwords account.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

finally, an acknowledgement of the role of consumers in job creation.

Nobody is denying that consumers create jobs. The issue is regarding whether the chicken or the egg comes first?

My personal experiences all point to the fact that it it the pioneering entrepreneur who starts the process not the consumer. The entrepreneur also has the ability to spread wealth around the world. In my case I have to thank the American Multinationals who set up shop in Singapore. They hired me, they paid me, they gave me share options and they paid me bonuses. They came first. I came second.

I then spent a lot of money buying cars, booze, fancy hi fi systems, cameras etc. Other businesses made money thanks to people like me but it started with rich American pricks investing in my country. Without them, I would have had no money to spend. The rich American pricks kick started the process. I, the consumer, played my part in spreading the wealth but I was not the initiator.

 

[Administrator]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

I have to agree. It is always easy to say what others whats to hear. Many of those here are just looking for things to strengthen their belief.

Do not be bother will these detractors.

This character is just playing to the crowd. It's like the Hollywood stars who opt for a Toyota Hybrid in order to create an image that they care about climate change and the environment.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

so generally speaking, Rich people don't create ALL jobs, and Rich Consumers do create MORE jobs.

Entrepreneurs are direct creators of jobs. They hire people.

Rich consumers who don't own businesses don't create jobs directly. What they do is create a DEMAND for products and services and this enables other entrepreneurs to seize the opportunities and more businesses are created. This in turn leads to more employment.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

When the article mentions the 'rich' I think the the answer is subjective. What is the definition of the rich? Bernie Madoff? Old Fart? Pinky? Dr M?

I wish to bring up another point of this debate is the wealth destroyers.. than bankers that caused the GFC and now the effects are still being felt. I think they have done more damage to people's livelihoods than the so called owners of Google, Microshit etc..these are the ones who should be flogged and punish for what they have done to the middle class..and fuck up half the world...

 

[bryanlim1972]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

Nobody is denying that consumers create jobs. The issue is regarding whether the chicken or the egg comes first?

My personal experiences all point to the fact that it it the pioneering entrepreneur who starts the process not the consumer. The entrepreneur also has the ability to spread wealth around the world. In my case I have to thank the American Multinationals who set up shop in Singapore. They hired me, they paid me, they gave me share options and they paid me bonuses. They came first. I came second.

I then spent a lot of money buying cars, booze, fancy hi fi systems, cameras etc. Other businesses made money thanks to people like me but it started with rich American pricks investing in my country. Without them, I would have had no money to spend.

lets go further back to theoretical cavemen Bill (entrepreneur/hunter) and Ted (consumer/gatherer)

Bill hunts and must finish his meat quickly before it spoils. he has no savings thus and lives day to day.

Ted gathers nuts, berries and fruits which keeps better. overtime he has a small stockpile of spare fruit and nuts.

Bill hunts day in and out and never seems to have enough while Ted grows fat on nuts.

its time for Bill to change things - maybe he can trade some animal hides with Ted. So he learns a new skill, leather tanning, creates hides and offers to sell them to Ted. without the fruits and nuts, Ted would not be able to trade for the hides.

i believe this cracks the egg over the chicken?

 

[singveld]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

When the article mentions the 'rich' I think the the answer is subjective. What is the definition of the rich? Bernie Madoff? Old Fart? Pinky? Dr M?

I wish to bring up another point of this debate is the wealth destroyers.. than bankers that caused the GFC and now the effects are still being felt. I think they have done more damage to people's livelihoods than the so called owners of Google, Microshit etc..these are the ones who should be flogged and punish for what they have done to the middle class..and fuck up half the world...

the bankers did not recreate the finanical crisis, it is the poor people.

They took out house loans that they can never afford. The poor people cause the financial crisis. If the bank gave me a huge loan that i know i cannot afford, i will not accept it. The problems in this world are cause by poor people and blame on rich.

 

[bryanlim1972]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

They took out house loans that they can never afford. The poor people cause the financial crisis. If the bank gave me a huge loan that i know i cannot afford, i will not accept it. The problems in this world are cause by poor people and blame on rich.

the person in the position of power wields and assumes greater responsibility. in this case the banks.

you come from a different time, and i hope you go soon. ciao!

 

[Leongsam]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

i believe this cracks the egg over the chicken?

All you've illustrated is the fact that consumers are needed as part of the equation. Nobody is denying that. You've also biased the scenario to make it appear that Bill is at a disadvantage because his food won't keep.

Ted obviously needs hides or he'll freeze to death in winter. That's why he's willing to trade. Without the need for hides, Bill would be a failed businessman.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

the bankers did not recreate the finanical crisis, it is the poor people.

They took out house loans that they can never afford. The poor people cause the financial crisis. If the bank gave me a huge loan that i know i cannot afford, i will not accept it. The problems in this world are cause by poor people and blame on rich.

The problems of this world are caused by idiots and unfortunately they form the majority.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

Bro Sing,,I disagree as it was the bankers that caused the problems. They gave the loans to those that cannot afford it. And what was worse was the repacking of the toxic mortgages, derivatives and other financial BS products etc that was going round the market. In Oz, fucking banks are quite strict to give out loans, so the problem was less in Oz than in USA..but anyway in Oz the banks are protected by the reserve bank,,so banks do well here,,just look at Oz,, cash rate is 2.25% one of the highest in the OECD and banks variable rate mortgage is nearly 6%...that also means the prime is more than 3%,,like that dont earn money also hard man...

the bankers did not recreate the finanical crisis, it is the poor people.

They took out house loans that they can never afford. The poor people cause the financial crisis. If the bank gave me a huge loan that i know i cannot afford, i will not accept it. The problems in this world are cause by poor people and blame on rich.

 

[singveld]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

the problem lies with the poor who sign on the dot on a contract which they know they never going to afford. the bankers are encourage by the government who buy votes by promising housing for the poor. you blame the banks, what about the poor who sign the contracts? they are not to blame?

Bro Sing,,I disagree as it was the bankers that caused the problems. They gave the loans to those that cannot afford it. And what was worse was the repacking of the toxic mortgages, derivatives and other financial BS products etc that was going round the market. In Oz, fucking banks are quite strict to give out loans, so the problem was less in Oz than in USA..but anyway in Oz the banks are protected by the reserve bank,,so banks do well here,,just look at Oz,, cash rate is 2.25% one of the highest in the OECD and banks variable rate mortgage is nearly 6%...that also means the prime is more than 3%,,like that dont earn money also hard man...

 

[Administrator]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

and this is clearly reflected in this forum.

The problems of this world are caused by idiots and unfortunately they form the majority.

 

[singveld]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

will you sign a bank loan that you know you can never afford to pay back?

did the banker put a gun on the poor head and force them to loan money?

 

[bryanlim1972]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

All you've illustrated is the fact that consumers are needed as part of the equation. Nobody is denying that. You've also biased the scenario to make it appear that Bill is at a disadvantage because his food won't keep.

Ted obviously needs hides or he'll freeze to death in winter. That's why he's willing to trade. Without the need for hides, Bill would be a failed businessman.

every good business needs a consumer. no consumer, no business. demand comes before supply.

modern economic thinking is too skewed towards big businesses. which decade was it that said "small is beautiful?"

 

[bryanlim1972]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

the problem lies with the poor who sign on the dot on a contract which they know they never going to afford. the bankers are encourage by the government who buy votes by promising housing for the poor. you blame the banks, what about the poor who sign the contracts? they are not to blame?

in the past, the poor would NOT have been eligible to sign the contract. that was the way things always worked.

then someone changed the rules, and suddenly the poor were eligible for loans.

does this make sense to you?

 

[bryanlim1972]

Re: Banned TED Talk: Nick Hanauer "Rich people don't create jobs"

The problems of this world are caused by idiots...

...and they form the vocal minority.

article today about culling stray dogs near some hdb estate. turns out it was ONE mudderfraker who made noise all the one to minister. they should cull him instead.