Serious Thailand buys China Main Battle Tank

[Papsmearer]

............ you mean Al2O3 or Al ??? armour..........

I cannot recall exactly. I can pull my Jane's and check. I believe its very similar to the one used for M113

 

[Papsmearer]

@ Hans168. No one is talking about what I consider the even bigger scandal of the CLAS-V ammo resupply vehicle for the Primus SSPH. Apparently, the Bionix chassis was so fucked, they could not even try a self propelled gun on it. And ended up contracting with United Defense for a chassis which they mated to the 155mm gun for the Primus, based on their Universal Combat Vehicle Platform (UCVP). What people don't know is that UD offered to build a ammo carrier for the Primus also based on their UCVP which would carry TWICE the ammo load for the same price as the Bronco based CLAS-V. Did MINDEF take them on this offer? Of course not. They have no problem with giving profits to ST for an inferior product. Hardly bang for the taxpayer buck.

While we are at it, the whole Bionix program should have been based on the UCVP chassis too. In most western countries, this would have been a front page scandal and heads would have rolled up to the Minister of defence level.

 

[Hans168]

@ In most western countries, this would have been a front page scandal and heads would have rolled up to the Minister of defence level.

Fong Saik Hay was repeatedly promoted from VP to....... President of a ST subsidary
Also Richard Kwok Wai Onn from manager of armouring to ....... CTO cum E VP

FOR PRODUCING A FUCKED UP PRODUCT WHICH DID NOT SELL BUT INCURRED MILLIONS OF MARKETTING EXPENSES!!!
Datz how they spent taxpayers' money!! Now we wonder why productivity so bad!!!

 

[Hans168]

Yes, you are probably right. the stingray had an aluminum armour hull, and i think they might have problem with the welds.. Its been some years and my memory is not that good.

Al or its alloy is a bitch to weld........

 

[Hans168]

No, and no attack helos either. they must not consider our armour force a threat. LOL

maybe kopi money not enuf or US does not want to sell to them............?

 

[Papsmearer]

maybe kopi money not enuf or US does not want to sell to them............?

Some of the best attack helos are Russians. The kamov KA-50 black shark, the Mi-28 havoc and even the old Mi-24 Hind are all very capable. And the Malaysians have experience with russian equipment anyway. i believed they look at the Rooivalk too. But in the end, i guess its budget considerations. For some reason, they just don't see the employment of attack helos to be as beneficial as the SAF thinks it is. i suppose they have a point. If an army is generously equipped with anti tank weaponry and MANPADS it probably is enough to kill any any attack.

 

[Papsmearer]

Al or its alloy is a bitch to weld........

that would explain it. cadillac cage at that time the maker of the Stingray did not have any other vehicles made from aluminum armour. All their other products like V series of wheeled APCs were using steel armour.

 

[Hans168]

Fong Saik Hay was repeatedly promoted from VP to....... President of a ST subsidary
Also Richard Kwok Wai Onn from manager of armouring to ....... CTO cum E VP

FOR PRODUCING A FUCKED UP PRODUCT WHICH DID NOT SELL BUT INCURRED MILLIONS OF MARKETTING EXPENSES!!!
Datz how they spent taxpayers' money!! Now we wonder why productivity so bad!!!

PS ....... there is one casualty ie Wu Tzu Chien then Prez of STK for unable to sell a piece of Bionix!!! Many got promoted while he got sidelined,,,,,,,,, poor bastard got did not get a musical chair to sit on!!

 

[Papsmearer]

PS ....... there is one casualty ie Wu Tzu Chien then Prez of STK for unable to sell a piece of Bionix!!! Many got promoted while he got sidelined,,,,,,,,, poor bastard got did not get a musical chair to sit on!!

Is Wee Siew Kim still there?

 

[jw5]

Is Wee Siew Kim still there?

No, he left in 2009. Now CEO of NIPSEA Group.

 

[Papsmearer]

my got Apache or not??

I forgot to mention that although the malaysians do not have the Apache, they are getting the MD 530G. A poor man's Apache. A smart move on their part. The helo is a fraction of the cost of the Apache, and would be able to kill everything in the SAF inventory except maybe the Leo 2.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/02/bigg...ala-lumpur-to-receive-new-attack-helicopters/

 

[frenchbriefs]

you mean this kind of china main battle tank?

[video=youtube;-OdGh8guiFU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OdGh8guiFU[/video]

 

[frenchbriefs]

you mean this kind of china main battle tank?

[video=youtube;-OdGh8guiFU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OdGh8guiFU[/video]

anyone notice how goddam big the factories in china is?they probably pay like 5000 RMB a month for the whole thing.

 

[Hans168]

Way too much. In 1997, they paid over $8 million for one of the original Bionix 1. They could have bought a M2 Bradley for around $5 million. And the Bradley is combat proven. Of course the much improve Bionix 2 will be the region of over $10 million each. SAF is the cash cow for ST.

Bionix was build to be a showcase project for some unproven organizations in the MINDEF establishment. Ostensibly, the main objective was to replace the M113, although I have yet to hear anyone complain about them. and a secondary objective was to develop a light tank version to replace the AMX-13. I have to admit there was a need of a modern IFV at that time. but there were already many off the shelf IFVs that for some reason or other, they decided not to buy. The IDF themselves had no problem with the M113 and used the Zelda upgraded version.

The Bionix is a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth. For some fucked reason, and to keep all the scholars happy in chiak liao bee organizations, ST not only had to work with HQ Armour, but also had to include DMO, and DSTA in it. For fuck, I don't know. HQ Amour and ST sit down is all that is needed to lay out the specs for the new IFV. All these other orgs join in is like some fuckfest. But at that time, DMO and DSTA were relatively new, and these 2 unnecessary orgs. were given this project to work on too. In fact, the specs should have been solely drawn up by SAF and then tendered to all the armour manufacturers of the world. They can then modify their own designs to compete in it. But it was all given only to ST on the piss poor excuse that all the off the shelf equipment was not suited to the SAF requirements. Lancheow lah. In the end, the Bionix was very close to IFV like the M2 Bradley in terms of power to weight, armour protection, mobility, engine power, etc. and only different in overall length and width. And not by that much either.

In the end, too many cooks in the kitchen, and end up with the shit we have. Somewhere along the way, the snake oil salesman Diesenroth came into town and sold them the MEXAS armour package for the Bionix 2. The design is a failure as far as I can see. They needed as many chassis as possible to defray the R & D costs. But the failure to turn it into a light tank deprived them of at least 300-400 orders. They were going to put an Oto Melara 120mm low recoil turret on the Bionix, but the suspension cannot take the weight and recoil. there is a reason why experienced builders like United defense build their M2 and M3 on a wider and longer chassis, and so they can be upgraded and upgunned.

In my opinion, u don't need DSTA at all. Armour and the Air Force can pick their own equipment without the help of these desk nerds. its an insult when you have DSTA putting in their 2 cents and Armour has to lan lan follow them.

why would MINDEF need 300 bionixes? where got road or m&d tracks for them?? oso aren't these shitting ducks against MBT like Polish MBT?????

 

[Hans168]

Is Wee Siew Kim still there?

that bloke left years ago after no more MP...........he shud stay till now sure got chance to replace Tan Pheng Hock.......... OR did I get it wrong that he did something not acceptable while up there????

 

[Hans168]

you mean this kind of china main battle tank?

[video=youtube;-OdGh8guiFU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OdGh8guiFU[/video]

why not?
in air it is called drone.......on land after putting in the remote controls it can do damag......... at least to your car

 

[Hans168]

No, he left in 2009. Now CEO of NIPSEA Group.

what biz this group??

 

[Papsmearer]

that bloke left years ago after no more MP...........he shud stay till now sure got chance to replace Tan Pheng Hock.......... OR did I get it wrong that he did something not acceptable while up there????

I also wondered about that. Especially him being MP already means he is designated future top boss.

 

[Papsmearer]

why would MINDEF need 300 bionixes? where got road or m&d tracks for them?? oso aren't these shitting ducks against MBT like Polish MBT?????

Its inline with the tactical doctrine. Which is a heavily offensive doctrine based on fast movement and supported by combined arms. So, you need the IFVs to move with the tanks and u need your infantry to be very mobile. No need to wait for PT-91 to scare them, they are already targets for all the anti tank weapons that the malaysians have like Carl Custav, RPG-7, Eryx, Baktar-Shikan, Metis, C90, etc.

 

[Hans168]

Its inline with the tactical doctrine. Which is a heavily offensive doctrine based on fast movement and supported by combined arms. So, you need the IFVs to move with the tanks and u need your infantry to be very mobile. No need to wait for PT-91 to scare them, they are already targets for all the anti tank weapons that the malaysians have like Carl Custav, RPG-7, Eryx, Baktar-Shikan, Metis, C90, etc.

Bionix fast??? It only has single stroke engine............