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Tan Kin Lian in the eyes of Goh Meng Seng Part 1

scroobal

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By now, most people who follow the news of the pending Presidential election closely would know my support for Mr. Tan Kin Lian to contest for Presidency.

My endorsement of Mr. Tan Kin Lian as President comes a long way but before I explain why I support Kin Lian, let me address some of the views which have been made by various people, including past and present Ministers on the role of the Elected Presidency.

The gist of the messages from the PAP ministers is that the Elected President has limited power and His Excellency could only act as the custodian of the reserves with some limited veto power. He cannot comment or influence the investment directions of any reserves, may not even question the accountability of various people and organizations who may make huge losses of the reserves they are in charge of. His role is only restricted to preventing the government of the day to spend the reserves when he deems fit.

One could easily see the biggest irony here. The President does not have the power to direct investment decisions nor extract accountability from those who are appointed to invest the reserves, when they make huge losses to the reserves. However, he has the power to prevent ELECTED GOVERNMENT of the day from spending the reserves!

As for the appointment of key appointment holders, the President must appoint key appointment holders ACCORDING to the advice of the Cabinet and the Presidential Council whose members are basically, appointed by the Cabinet. Interestingly, the PAP leaders have said several times that if there is a "rogue government" voted in, presumably not PAP, the President could help to prevent it from making various key appointment so to preserve the integrity of the system. This is in fact a contradictory motive and power distribution.

Basically it means, if PAP is in power, the President will have to listen to it and his power will be curbed. But the PAP has also planned for the day when it loses power, then it could make use of the President to curb the power of the "rogue government" or even cripples it totally. Why? This is because the President will be there to protect the PAP appointed individuals on the key positions from being removed by this "rogue government". Yes, this includes the Chairman of GIC.

This is the kind of system PAP has designed for Singapore; or rather, for its own self interests. PAP leaders have once said, if opposition is to form the government consecutively for two terms, Singapore will be finished. Actually what they meant was that for the first term, PAP could still try to cripple the rouge government but by the second term, this rogue government would have people who will be qualified to be President and the system would actually deprive PAP from making a come back to be the ruling party again. It is PAP which is going to be finished, to be exact.

This is really a kind of irony, really. It is just like the GRC system. It will be very advantageous to PAP as long as no opposition party is good enough to win any GRC. But once a GRC is lost, it will become the biggest nightmare to PAP's hegemony of power or it might become the beginning of the end of PAP's ruling status.

Similarly, the Elected Presidency will only be good as long as no "non-establishment" individual could win it. They may not be the cute little puppet that PAP wants him to be. PAP thought that as long it is in power, this will not happen. But the late President Ong Teng Cheong has proven to be too inconvenient for it to handle.

The incoherence of the Elected President system arises because of the conflicting aims of PAP's intention under different scenarios and situations. i.e. they just want to have the cake and eat it. By right, if the Elected President has so limited power, PAP should not be too concerned about losing the post to someone whom it may not endorse. However, PAP cannot disarm the power of the Elected President totally because it may end up compromising the original idea of using it as a means to cripple the rogue government. It is really a Catch 22 situation. Thus the best outcome is to continue to make sure that only the people PAP endorse will become the President.

Logically, as an opposition member, I should be opposing this Elected Presidency system. Any rules or system designed with the intention of protecting PAP's interests will have to be opposed.

However, I have second thought back in 2008. I would want to beat PAP at their own games with their own rules. I would rather to take this opportunity to turn this around so that some real checks and balances could start right now, via the Elected President.

PAP wanted a President who is preferably performing mostly ceremonial roles and not exercising any real influence or power of checks and balances on them. i.e. A President who will just sit there and not say anything which could embarrass the PAP. The President may have no real executive powers, but it doesn't mean that he could not make timely comments on issues which will affect the people in various ways. An Elected President should not be robbed of his voice, his freedom of speech with respect to the welfare of the people.

Thus, what kinds of people should we be looking for to be our President? I always tell people around me, we should not be looking for a SAINT to be our President. There is hardly any SAINT around here in Singapore, least one who could qualify as a Presidential candidate with such materialistic criteria and measures. Maybe we may have a monk or pastor or any other religious leaders who are saint-like but most probably they won't be CEO of some companies with $100 million paid up capital, least a politician.

We should be looking for a person who have an independent mind, FAIR, HONEST and most importantly has the moral courage to speak up for the people. The moral courage to stand up and question the government of the day if there are problems with the reserves or otherwise.

There are a lot of nice people around but nice people may not be the right people to perform the role of the Elected President.

Goh Meng Seng

P.S. I will write about why I find Mr. Tan Kin Lian the right person to be our President in my next post.
 
Won't TKL be another puppet manipulated by another puppet , whose strings are pulled by an unseen puppet master?:eek:
 
Gives me the impression that GMS is supporting Tan Cheng Bock as it fits him perfectly. I thought he was supporting Tan Kin Lian?:D
 
Gives me the impression that GMS is supporting Tan Cheng Bock as it fits him perfectly. I thought he was supporting Tan Kin Lian?:D

Ahahahaha! My sentiments exactly :D:D:D I kept my mouth shut cus figured try to give opposition leader some face... :D:D:D
 
Eagerly awaiting his second post.
A few general points about GMS and his first post.

1. Don't agree that the reasons for the elected presidency were to help pap keep power against a "good opposition" government". I believe it was to help pap regain power and help the country against a potentially "rogue opposition" government. What is argubale is of course the assumption that the opposition government would be "rogue". Of course, coming from the paranoid and proud pappies, don't expect anything else.

2. Since the powers of the elected president are limited, basically no executive powers and no powers for policy making, his main job is to "block roguish acts".
All 3 potential candidates are ex pap anyway, with one a former mp and another potentially an ex-ministar. I just wonder what makes GMS think that TKL will do that role well, whereas TCB or Tony can't or won't. They are not arguing on policy matters or how the country would be run, it's more of what one man decides to do based on his conscience and integrity. Perhaps more will be revealed in his next post.

3. My take (and GMS and any others are free to refute this) is that GMS is qute impressed that TKL, a former CEO of a large insurance company, has been fighting casues like dubious structured products and other things, supposedly for the benefit of ordinary citizens.
What I don't quite understand is how GMS views the petition which he was part of, in terms of democracy and the mindset of candidates wanting to serve the people and the country.
Another point is the significance of asking him and then another opposition party member and election candidate to get his nomination forms and then saying on his blog that he has no political affiliation. Oh, not forgetting speaking at their rallies also.

Sure, we all agree that no man is a saint and we are electing the best available candidate, but what makes TKL better as a person and more importantly, president than TCB, or for that matter, even Tony?
If it was TKL of opposition party vs TCB of pap in a general election, I would be supporting the former too! But it's not and will probably never be, right?
 
Gives me the impression that GMS is supporting Tan Cheng Bock as it fits him perfectly. I thought he was supporting Tan Kin Lian?:D

Windsor,

I don't know TCB personally and I am not in the position to judge critically. But to me, he is just too close to PAP for comfort. Comparing between TCB and TKL, TCB is still giving a speech as though he is still PAP cadre member, talking about cannot give away too much tips to opposition... etc.

Maybe you are right in the sense that both TKL and TCB would perform the role of EP well but as I understand TKL better than TCB, I would support him instead.

Goh Meng Seng
 
Scroobal

I would like to ask you about 2 theories you had, hope you don't mind since one has been refuted and the other I don't agree.

The first theory was that TKL thought he had NSP in the bag, so he asked Png from WP to collect his forms. GMS came out quickly to refute this theory and admitted that TKL had asked him, but he declined as he had a prior engagement.

This particular theory may have been refuted, but it does not refute the possible theories that TKL does in fact have NSP support or that he at least wants to have it.
The very fact that he asked GMS and then Png to collect his nomination form pretty much showed his intent, and people in this forum agree with that as well.

The second theory was that the more educated will tend to support TCB.
Well ok, will tend to and there are always exceptions.
GMS then must be one of the exceptions, because he can be considered quite highly educated. How do you explain that?
Don't agree with this theory, it could be work experiences that is the bigger factor.
 
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Windsor,

I don't know TCB personally and I am not in the position to judge critically. But to me, he is just too close to PAP for comfort. Comparing between TCB and TKL, TCB is still giving a speech as though he is still PAP cadre member, talking about cannot give away too much tips to opposition... etc.

Maybe you are right in the sense that both TKL and TCB would perform the role of EP well but as I understand TKL better than TCB, I would support him instead.

Goh Meng Seng

Thanks for the clarification Meng Seng. My take on the EP is that this is a pretty useless position as it requires the EP to work together with the MIW. I for one, reiterate that I will not vote either way for we will be voting in a puppet. Whether TCB or TKL wins does not really matter, but looking at both profiles and their background, TCB appears more statesmanlike than TKL. The fear will be that voting in TKL who appears oblivious to the pronouncements by the MIW about the role of the EP, will be to upset the status quo. Nathan played it very safe and is like clay in the hands of the MIW. I believe both TCB and TKL will not be like Nathan, but TKL with his "noise" has already sounded the alarm bells of the MIW such that they are now coming out in force to "explain" things to the common people. Whereas TCB is keeping what he will be doing close to his heart, TKL in his efforts to gain support from us is exposing his intents for all to see. Is this good, I ask?

Taking the scenario that TKL wins and becomes the EP, since his intentions to influence unpopular policies and donate large sums of his salary amongst other promises may be curtailed as soon as he dons the mantle of the EP. In fact, more new legislation will be put in place to tie the EP's hands, and Singaporeans should know by now how devious they can be,

In order to change the executive powers of the EP is not now and not when the elections is about due. The battle for change has to be in 2016 if the oppositions are more than ready to take on the MIW in a big way. It is only in Parliament can changes be made as we all should know. With more opposition MPs in Parliament, the MIW may not have the strength to fight against the wishes of the people.

I don't doubt you as someone with integrity and a steadfast friend of TKL and your stand shows how he should value your friendship. It is not wise imho for you as you will be damaging yourself as you might upset those who does not favour TKL. As a politician, you know that people's opinions matters, and you should be riding on votes of popularity even against certain principles you might have. One of the reason why many good and outstanding citizens do not wish to aspire to higher office even though the rewards are attractive is because they cannot accept certain policies they are against. Only those who are willing to allow themselves to be compromised will survive. As a politician, you cannot please everyone and neither can you stay true to yourself if you intend to stay on. This is a hard truth. One needs to play to the gallery, so to speak and gain the popular vote in order to win. In short, politics is a dirty game and you can never be a clean politician.

TCB for one, could not accept what was required of him, so he left. TKL? The wayangs being played out prior to the election of the EP is very plain to me despite what others might think. What questions I did asked will be the same questions most people would have, but I am not wearing blinkers. Wearing your heart on your sleeve may win some over but definitely people will take sides and you will not win both. I will not go as far as to offer any advice, but I am putting this forward, so you might think it over as to who is of more importance, TKL or GMS?

Cheers:)
 
Bro Winsor after you explain it becomes more clearer to me. TCB got ground support so he can afford to keep his cards close to heart. If he open his cards now he will get attack by MIW since he is not the party supported candidate. TKL say so many things because he need all the supports he can get fast. Both are acting according to their circumstance. It is like WP keeping quiet and win Aljunied and NSP GMS talk so much cock and still cannot win Tampines even with public anger against moboky.
 
Thanks for the clarification Meng Seng. My take on the EP is that this is a pretty useless position as it requires the EP to work together with the MIW. I for one, reiterate that I will not vote either way for we will be voting in a puppet. Whether TCB or TKL wins does not really matter, but looking at both profiles and their background, TCB appears more statesmanlike than TKL. The fear will be that voting in TKL who appears oblivious to the pronouncements by the MIW about the role of the EP, will be to upset the status quo. Nathan played it very safe and is like clay in the hands of the MIW. I believe both TCB and TKL will not be like Nathan, but TKL with his "noise" has already sounded the alarm bells of the MIW such that they are now coming out in force to "explain" things to the common people. Whereas TCB is keeping what he will be doing close to his heart, TKL in his efforts to gain support from us is exposing his intents for all to see. Is this good, I ask?

Thank you for your lengthy reply, Windsor.

I have put it quite clearly on my blog post on why I chose to try to beat PAP on their own game and rules. I know fully well that at this stage, with over two third majority in parliament, they could well change the laws against the EP if TKL or TCB is to win.

Having said that, I also stated in my post, they will be in a true dilemma. If they really go all out to change the rules, one day, they may regret because the initial primary intent of EP will be lost and they might have rendered this post totally useless in helping them to gain power again.

I am not just like any other politician, so to speak. You should have noticed by now, most of the time, I don't really play to the gallery. It would be really "opportunistic" in literal sense if I do that.

Of course, I have my own agenda but it has nothing to do with me, really. PAP may not be truthful to the real intent of EP as checks and balances but meant for their own self preservation of power base, but I will turn it around. So far, TKL has spoken his intent openly and honestly on what he would do when he is elected as EP and that resonate with my belief.

Though I am a so call politician in my own right, but I do not really behave like a politician, which may be good or bad. I like people who are straight forward and open about their thoughts and ideals. I may not even agree with some of their views but naturally, no two persons think alike.

For example, some have questioned me here about why would I support TKL when apparently he supported the Casino while I am not. I can live with that because I know I will not get anyone on this world who will believe exactly everything which I believe in. If I can get a person who share 50% of the same core values and views which I believe in, that is already a bonus.

Having said that, Kin Lian has stated quite clearly, he is prepared to change his views if new information or situation proves him wrong or otherwise. This is actually a rare trait among people, politicians included.

People change over time; that is my belief of impermanence. But at this moment, among the few candidates known so far, I feel that TKL is still the best person to perform the role of EP.

I shall explain later in my blog.

Goh Meng Seng
 
Bro Winsor after you explain it becomes more clearer to me. TCB got ground support so he can afford to keep his cards close to heart. If he open his cards now he will get attack by MIW since he is not the party supported candidate. TKL say so many things because he need all the supports he can get fast. Both are acting according to their circumstance. It is like WP keeping quiet and win Aljunied and NSP GMS talk so much cock and still cannot win Tampines even with public anger against moboky.

Thanks Bro. I am just hoping for GMS' sake that TKL wins so at least he get better support. But being GMS, I doubt he cares about this. The problem will be when TCB wins, then the negative effects of this will taint the reputation of GMS. As an aspiring politician, he has to keep his nose clean and not be a target for derision because people do have long memories.
 
People change over time; that is my belief of impermanence. But at this moment, among the few candidates known so far, I feel that TKL is still the best person to perform the role of EP.

I shall explain later in my blog.

Waiting eagerly for that.
Perhaps your character is actually closer to TCB's than TKL's. Not sure, since I don't know either well.

But I will tell you and others why I prefer TCB.
The reporters asked TCB whether he was concerned that his past association with pap may affect his chances with some voters.
His reply was and I paraphrase, yes, it's true, some voters may hold my past association with pap against me.

Even I who will never stand for elections as president or mp also know how to say "Yes, I was a pap mp for many years, but during that time, I always tried to help my constituents and speak up against policies which I felt were not in the best interests of the ordinary singaporean."

He's a bit stodgy, probably too stubborn and straightforward, some harsh critics may even unfairly say slightly slow witted. :o
This post that we are electing does not require the man to launch the final rocket or calculate the time needed to reach the nearest star. The main role is to be straightforward and steadfast and block certain major wrong moves by the incumbent government.
He is not required to look at the angles everytime the wind blows.
 
.....
The second theory was that the more educated will tend to support TCB.
Well ok, will tend to and there are always exceptions.
GMS then must be one of the exceptions, because he can be considered quite highly educated. How do you explain that?
Don't agree with this theory, it could be work experiences that is the bigger factor.

I have a 3rd theory. GMS, TKL and a few others are working for the same master. I think it is quite easy to guess who that is.
 
I have a 3rd theory. GMS, TKL and a few others are working for the same master. I think it is quite easy to guess who that is.

I really can't guess.
Deleted my guesses. :o
Too rude! :D
 
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I will pick option 2.

Hehehe, too late :o
But our guesses are both wrong. :o
If you consider how buddy the woodpecker is with TCB. :D
 
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Hehehe, too late :o
But our guesses are both wrong. :o
It is never too late.

Maybe they buy insurance by putting 2 candidates in case the single candidate fails to qualify. To disqualify both candidates will become too obvious.
 
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I don't know TCB personally and I am not in the position to judge critically. But to me, he is just too close to PAP for comfort. Comparing between TCB and TKL, TCB is still giving a speech as though he is still PAP cadre member, talking about cannot give away too much tips to opposition... etc.

Goh Meng Seng

Aiya, Dr Tan Cheng Bock is behaving like a traditional kung fu master lah. Since when the old master will give everything to the students be it PAP or Opposition. Must always leave a few killer strokes in case the students later come back to topple the master.
 
For anything that GMS said to be held accountable. GMS must first pack his bag and go to hong kong and reside there which he promised if he loses the 2011 GE which he did.

Therefore, without holding any regards to GMS, he must first go stay in hong kong and never to come back ever again.
 
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