Tan Jee Say & NSP

[freedalas]

Never believe a politician. They'll say whatever it takes to win votes. They're all the same the world over. Surely you're not that naive.

At the end of the day, any govt needs to be judged by its deeds not its words and I have to say that the PAP has proven time and time again that they are the best. However, I have never said that they're above telling porkies.

The biggest bullshit was LKY's apology for his remarks about the Muslims. He meant every word he said and he certainly wasn't sorry for saying them. He still stands by every single word in his "Hard Truths" essays.

I could easily come up with a list of bullshit statements from PAP ministers as long as your arm.

Glad u are seeing the light of the hypocrisy of the PAP regime. I am sure forummers here will indeed be grateful if u post a list of bullshit statements from PAP ministers. It can help us to convey all these to others not on this forum such that more PAP lies are exposed. Thanks

 

[Leongsam]

Glad u are seeing the light of the hypocrisy of the PAP regime. I am sure forummers here will indeed be grateful if u post a list of bullshit statements from PAP ministers. It can help us to convey all these to others not on this forum such that more PAP lies are exposed. Thanks

It has nothing to do with "seeing the light". Politics does play out in black and white. It is multi-faceted with many shades of grey.

It's not the "good" vs "evil" scenario that exists in fairy tales. Politics by it's very nature involves politician saying things they don't really mean, doing things they don't really want to do and compromising personal beliefs for the bigger picture.

The PAP has done many disgraceful things, ruined many lives and lied by omission in many areas. However, that shouldn't detract from the fact that they have an underlying desire to keep Singapore prosperous and successful for the sake of fall Singaporeans and not just for themselves. You may not agree with their methods or their policies but you should not doubt their sincerity.

The problem with many of the arguments put forth here is that they are simplistic and idealistic. Governments have to deal with realities not ideals.

 

[freedalas]

It has nothing to do with "seeing the light". Politics does play out in black and white. It is multi-faceted with many shades of grey.

It's not the "good" vs "evil" scenario that exists in fairy tales. Politics by it's very nature involves politician saying things they don't really mean, doing things they don't really want to do and compromising personal beliefs for the bigger picture.

The PAP has done many disgraceful things, ruined many lives and lied by omission in many areas. However, that shouldn't detract from the fact that they have an underlying desire to keep Singapore prosperous and successful for the sake of fall Singaporeans and not just for themselves. You may not agree with their methods or their policies but you should not doubt their sincerity.

The problem with many of the arguments put forth here is that they are simplistic and idealistic. Governments have to deal with realities not ideals.

You ought to give forummers here more credit than that. We'd benefited from the many enlightening posts over the years, that at times, I wonder if the more politically savvy people are here in this forum rather than the bumbling idiots in the PAP camp. To suggest that forummers here believes that there is only a pure black and white divide is an insult to them, much in character with the PAP who insults the people's intelligence with lame excuses and desperate rationalising for their mis-steps. If PAP tell white lies for the greater good for S'pore, then it's tolerable. But they're not. They're telling lies to enrich the reserves, the government linked companies and consequently themselves. It's therefore u who are simplistic and idealistic. In any case, you trapped yourself again with your circular arguments. You started off by saying PAP ruined many lives by doing many disgraceful things. And shortly after you claim they are sincere. Or do you mean they are "sincerely evil and greedy?"

 

[Leongsam]

You ought to give forummers here more credit than that. We'd benefited from the many enlightening posts over the years, that at times, I wonder if the more politically savvy people are here in this forum rather than the bumbling idiots in the PAP camp. To suggest that forummers here believes that there is only a pure black and white divide is an insult to them, much in character with the PAP who insults the people's intelligence with lame excuses and desperate rationalising for their mis-steps. If PAP tell white lies for the greater good for S'pore, then it's tolerable. But they're not. They're telling lies to enrich the reserves, the government linked companies and consequently themselves. It's therefore u who are simplistic and idealistic. In any case, you trapped yourself again with your circular arguments. You started off by saying PAP ruined many lives by doing many disgraceful things. And shortly after you claim they are sincere. Or do you mean they are "sincerely evil and greedy?"

That may be your perception but that doesn't mean it reflects the reality of the situation.

My arguments aren't circular. They simply describe the how things operate in the real world.

Take land acquisition as an example. My family lost land that would be worth tens of millions today. However, without this outright theft of private property, modern Singapore would never have taken root. I see both sides of the equation.

GLCs are another hot issue at every election. They are the landing zones for all the shady golden parachute deals. Singaporeans get really pissed off with what they see. However, if the govt actually sold all the GLCs it owned, the net result would be the loss of hundreds of thousands of very well paying jobs currently held by Singaporeans.

While many want the PAP ousted, do you honestly think that if the WP gained power, things would be drastically different? I can tell you from experience that many things would remain the same. The number of poor would be similar. The Casinos would still be operating. The GLCs would remain in govt hands and would operate the same way. The MRT would still break down and ponding would still take place when it rained heavily.

 

[freedalas]

That may be your perception but that doesn't mean it reflects the reality of the situation.

My arguments aren't circular. They simply describe the how things operate in the real world.

Take land acquisition as an example. My family lost land that would be worth tens of millions today. However, without this outright theft of private property, modern Singapore would never have taken root. I see both sides of the equation.

GLCs are another hot issue at every election. They are the landing zones for all the shady golden parachute deals. Singaporeans get really pissed off with what they see. However, if the govt actually sold all the GLCs it owned, the net result would be the loss of hundreds of thousands of very well paying jobs currently held by Singaporeans.

While many want the PAP ousted, do you honestly think that if the WP gained power, things would be drastically different? I can tell you from experience that many things would remain the same. The number of poor would be similar. The Casinos would still be operating. The GLCs would remain in govt hands and would operate the same way. The MRT would still break down and ponding would still take place when it rained heavily.

I agree with your point about the massive negative impact that would result from selling of the GLCs. Every country has its own too deeply entrenched system or systems that cannot be done away with without causing massive loss of livelihood eg the UMNO patronage system of business concessions, licensing and distribution of mega-projects. S'pore fair share of too deeply entrenched system is with its GLC. LKY became totally addicted to GLCs earning super profits that it simply grew and grew, displacing SMEs and raised the barrier extremely highly for those trying to enter the market place. I don't pretend to be an expert on how to reduce the govt participation in the business sector without causing too high a collateral damage, but if the PAP continues to be in denial that the unusually huge GLC presence is causing problems, then S'poreans would suffer hardships even more.

 

[liangshan]

Back to TJS, this man strikes me as not at peace with himself... something is simmering inside.

 

[NoNewsGood]

From the PE, PAP has successfully tested their winning formula: put in a hard core PAP candidate (TT) and a PAP-lite candidate (TCB) and PAP will win 70% of the votes.

Watch for this strategy to be deployed in GRC in the next GE.

 

[Checker]

While many want the PAP ousted, do you honestly think that if the WP gained power, things would be drastically different? .

Yes. In that case, there'd be two (or more) major centres of almost equal power. More opportunities and competition. Power and opportunities will have to be divided. Eg two sets of cabinet level leaders, heads of major institutions and staff. One in power and one fighting to take over. A great deal more jobs related to politics, policy research, advocacy, administration. More serious creative policy debate. Not boxed-in thinking to please one ideology. And everybody knows SG needs to be more creative to do well in the future.

 

[zhihau]

And everybody knows SG needs to be more creative to do well in the future.

forecast for next GE, PAP still garners over 2/3 of the parliamentary seats despite having only 50-55% of the valid votes, all thanks to the GRC system

 

[Leongsam]

Yes. In that case, there'd be two (or more) major centres of almost equal power. More opportunities and competition. Power and opportunities will have to be divided. Eg two sets of cabinet level leaders, heads of major institutions and staff. One in power and one fighting to take over. A great deal more jobs related to politics, policy research, advocacy, administration. More serious creative policy debate. Not boxed-in thinking to please one ideology. And everybody knows SG needs to be more creative to do well in the future.

All that will do is paralyse the nation. Nothing will go forward. Everyone will be trying to figure out ways of fixing the opposition instead of working on solutions for the good of the nation.

Surely you remember his words of wisdom :

[video=youtube;a1WhJKsYb50]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1WhJKsYb50[/video]
​

 

[Checker]

He might really benefit from the encouragement for creative thinking... for the good of the nation.

Someone more senior said: If native Singaporeans ('ruling party'?) are falling behind because "the spurs are not stuck into the hide," that is their problem.

 

[Fook Seng]

forecast for next GE, PAP still garners over 2/3 of the parliamentary seats despite having only 50-55% of the valid votes, all thanks to the GRC system

I think 54% is the cutoff point for 1/3 representation by Opposition in parliament.

 

[zhihau]

I think 54% is the cutoff point for 1/3 representation by Opposition in parliament.

actually the percentage of the votes is pretty much dependent on the number of SMCs & GRCs being plotted, but i reckoned boundaries would still be redrawn. so i guess 50~55% is a pretty safe gauge for now

 

[Fook Seng]

actually the percentage of the votes is pretty much dependent on the number of SMCs & GRCs being plotted, but i reckoned boundaries would still be redrawn. so i guess 50~55% is a pretty safe gauge for now

I say 54% because 55% will just miss it but 54% might just make it. This is assuming the present mix of SMCs and GRCs.

 

[zhihau]

I say 54% because 55% will just miss it but 54% might just make it. This is assuming the present mix of SMCs and GRCs.

orr, ok. i not maths expert :p:p:p

 

[Fook Seng]

orr, ok. i not maths expert :p:p:p

No sophisticated maths. Just use WP's performance as a proxy.

 

[TracyTan866]

Glad u are seeing the light of the hypocrisy of the PAP regime. I am sure forummers here will indeed be grateful if u post a list of bullshit statements from PAP ministers. It can help us to convey all these to others not on this forum such that more PAP lies are exposed. Thanks

Can we expect LeongSam to post PAP's bullshit statements? I will be happy if he stops glorifying those bullshit

 

[Fook Seng]

Can we expect LeongSam to post PAP's bullshit statements? I will be happy if he stops glorifying those bullshit

He changed tag again. Look at the Business Times thread.

 

[TracyTan866]

He changed tag again. Look at the Business Times thread.

hahahahaha..Didnt I say that LeongSam twists, turns and wriggles?

 

[rusty]

hahahahaha..Didnt I say that LeongSam twists, turns and wriggles?

LKY once said, "Over my dead body" when someone brought up the introduction of casino in Sg.

Now he he said "Time has changed, we should also change"

In chinese word, magistate has two mouths.

Sam is a good politician and never trust a politician is his own word.