Tan Cheng Bock on the Punggol East BE result

[metalmickey]

It is probably one of those things he didn't quite think through. Thanks to the PAP, the Opposition got a free lesson on how to disarm a PAP President.

LKY doesn't do things without thinking through them. The elected presidency is a way of hedging your bets. The probability that you will lose both the elected presidency and the parliament to non-PAP people / non-PAP loyallists would be slimmer than either one alone. So if slapping on one more layer of safeguards was what he intended then he's done the right thing.

 

[ray_of_hope]

Originally Posted by ray_of_hope
Your remark sounds completely like a throw-away-line. If the people want what you describe then they simply need to step up to the plate. What have they done? Are millions of dollars flowing into the WP as donations for the party and its building fund (allowing it to build an even larger HQ than initially envisaged)? If that happens then you point is valid, and I will be with you on this 100%. If it is not then it is simply more of the same -- people demanding things but not contributing anything. How do I treat such people? Of course with contempt, and nothing less.

I'm describing things as they are, not as they should be. And you are right, 90% of opposition politics, 90% of the people here, in fact - is all about people demanding things but not contributing anything. If you are understanding what I am saying correctly, you should be treating them with contempt.

I think that the PAP should be given some time to save itself. But when you think about it, their conduct post 2011 elections has been totally disgusting. Stringing out Ng Boon Gay to dry just because they want to show that they are tough on corruption. Stringing out Laura Ong to dry to show that the PAP is as accountable as WP is. (My gut feeling is that Yam Ah Mee quit in disgust over this issue.) A "national conversation" whose purpose is to "educate" those dumbass peasants into realising that the government always does know what's best. It might not be a bad thing for the WP to take over, no matter how immature they are.

1 million dollars is only for a large HQ. That's all 1 million dollars is going to get you these days. It could pay a small portion of a minister's annual salary. If your point is that the 1 million dollars is proof that Singaporeans have real sincerity when they want to contribute to opposition politics, you have got to be joking.

I do not discount the possibility that significant donations are now flowing to the WP. If that is indeed the case then I would say that this is a major turning point, politically and much else. It makes a very material difference in more ways than one.

 

[aurvandil]

Given the way things are turning out, it is hard to see how it can said LKY's Plan B was a clever one.

Incidentally LKY has done plenty of things without thinking through properly. Some examples - Stop at 2 policy, Graduate Mother scheme, Forced Bilingual program ....

LKY doesn't do things without thinking through them. The elected presidency is a way of hedging your bets. The probability that you will lose both the elected presidency and the parliament to non-PAP people / non-PAP loyallists would be slimmer than either one alone. So if slapping on one more layer of safeguards was what he intended then he's done the right thing.

 

[metalmickey]

Given the way things are turning out, it is hard to see how it can said LKY's Plan B was a clever one.

Incidentally LKY has done plenty of things without thinking through properly. Some examples - Stop at 2 policy, Graduate Mother scheme, Forced Bilingual program ....

Well I'm sure that one of the things he's learnt in the last couple of years is that people just don't rise out of their coffins to put things to right - they just stay dead.

I'm not sure that all these three ideas didn't work. I'd say that of these three, only the graduate mother scheme was a bad idea. Stop at 2 policy was the right policy at that time, and contrary to what most people think, the recent influx of immigrants has nothing to do with our low fertility rate, but more to do with their wanting to fuck us for opening our mouths and criticising them. Bilingual program wasn't as destructive as the Speak Mandarin campaign which basically tried to destroy the use of dialects in Singapore. Other crap ideas were stuff like GIC and Temasek - he probably didn't envision that it would pave the way for the worst sort of corruption in Singapore. His crappest idea was the sort of politics that he envisioned - the knuckleduster approach. It might have been necessary for a short period of time to keep everyone in line and moving in the same direction, but it had long outlived its use by the 80s. The repressive approach had gone along for too long.

 

[Fook Seng]

the pap brand is a hated, despised and diseased brand. it wld be silly for TT to seek another term..anyway, it's likely that he will be voted out should he contest under pap's approval.

besides TT, I think many pap ministers will want to retire after this term

If he has to go through the booing a second time, I can understand why he would wish to step down.

 

[Fook Seng]

LKY can only remain in cabinet if the PAP is still in power.

Both LKY and GCT had resigned from their MM and SM cabinet portfolios. Their titles now may throw some light on whether they are still in the Cabinet. LKY seems to me quite a clear case of out of the cabinet. The ex says it but the Emeritus title is a bit ambiguous. Are there any body here who is very clear on this?

 

[Fook Seng]

LKY doesn't do things without thinking through them. The elected presidency is a way of hedging your bets. The probability that you will lose both the elected presidency and the parliament to non-PAP people / non-PAP loyallists would be slimmer than either one alone. So if slapping on one more layer of safeguards was what he intended then he's done the right thing.

Actually there is a very good chance that they can lose both in the same year. There are a few months between the two elections. Don't know how much they can do? Don't sign in the new Govt?

 

[metalmickey]

Actually there is a very good chance that they can lose both in the same year. There are a few months between the two elections. Don't how much that can do? Don't sign in the new Govt?

Well that's based on Aurvandil's theory that the elected presidency was created as a form of insurance against the PAP loyallists totally losing power. I have a different theory. He saw how his former good friend Devan Nair went totally nuts as president and he decided that it wouldn't be a good thing if a president didn't have any political power. So he just spruced up that office for the heck of it.

 

[Fook Seng]

I'm not sure that all these three ideas didn't work. I'd say that of these three, only the graduate mother scheme was a bad idea. Stop at 2 policy was the right policy at that time, and contrary to what most people think, the recent influx of immigrants has nothing to do with our low fertility rate, but more to do with their wanting to fuck us for opening our mouths and criticising
them.

The Stop at 2 did not contribute much to the low fertility rate but probably caused a blip in the growth of our population. The low TFR is probably due to the general high level of stress in our society, closely correlated with our high unhappiness index.

 

[Leongsam]

closely correlated with our high unhappiness index.

Singaporeans are unhappy because they worship materialism rather than achievement.

They think that the pursuit of status symbols will bring happiness but we all know that life doesn't work that way. The Merc you've been dreaming about does nothing for you once it has been acquired. Instead of bringing happiness, it causes stress especially if it's parked in a public space and is at the risk of being vandalised or stolen.

The same applies to Rolexes, Club Memberships, fancy credit cards etc. Once you've got it, the happiness is fleeting and disappears once one of your friends or colleagues shows up with something better.

I'm not saying that we should all give away everything and become hermits in some cave. However, material wealth has to take a back seat to activities which evoke feelings of achievement and contentment for extended periods.

Examples are :

• Mentoring of kids that don't have father figures in their lives.
• Rescuing ill treated animals.
• Exercising with a goal in mind....eg finish a Marathon within a targeted time frame.
• Building a business and selling it when the time is right.
• Taking up fulfilling hobby eg photography, painting, customising cars etc.
• Starting a forum and seeing it through from 0 posts to 1 million posts and counting.

There are many more examples that I could give but I hope this gives a gist of what life is about.

If you choose your goals wisely and you show perseverance and dedication, your finances will take care of themselves. I've never had to worry about money. I concentrated on my non financial targets and the finances have pretty much taken care of themselves.

 

[billisnotathome]

Singaporeans are unhappy because they worship materialism rather than achievement.

What do you expect from a people whose own elected leaders have confessed to having feelings of inadequacy when talking to business/corporate leaders, unless they earn more money than them?

 

[GoldenDragon]

Incidentally LKY has done plenty of things without thinking through properly. Some examples - Stop at 2 policy, Graduate Mother scheme, Forced Bilingual program ....

Agree. But LKY never had any human obstacle to overcome. Whatever he said or did, no one dared to oppose. I suspect the only ones who dared to face-off with him were GKS, TCC and maybe S Rajaratnam. The New Guards all bo lumpar when it comes to dealings with LKY.

 

[steffychun]

Both LKY and GCT had resigned from their MM and SM cabinet portfolios. Their titles now may throw some light on whether they are still in the Cabinet. LKY seems to me quite a clear case of out of the cabinet. The ex says it but the Emeritus title is a bit ambiguous. Are there any body here who is very clear on this?

LKY still has PAs in the PMO. You figure it

 

[GoldenDragon]

LKY still has PAs in the PMO. You figure it

After his son, he has the most number of Security Officers. And he is just an MP who doesn't attend any MTP session.

 

[steffychun]

After his son, he has the most number of Security Officers. And he is just an MP who doesn't attend any MTP session.

I thought he has the most. LHL's daughter use to have a guard standing outside her sec school classroom.

 

[metalmickey]

Incidentally LKY has done plenty of things without thinking through properly. Some examples - Stop at 2 policy, Graduate Mother scheme, Forced Bilingual program ....

I forgot about LKY's biggest mistake of all - deciding on the identity of the 3rd PM of Singapore before he decided on the identity of the 2nd.